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Poll

Who is your favorite Pandava queen?

Poll Choice
Kunti
Madri
Draupadi
Subhadra
Uttara
Hidimbaa
Uloopi
Chitrangada
Other wife of any Pandavas (please specify)

Frequent Posters

Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

One thing about the story about the 'killing' of Arjun that strikes me. Bheeshma was one of the Vasus, and they had wanted to be liberated as soon as born, which is why Ganga did the otherwise heinous act of drowning them. Given that, why were they upset @ Arjun cheating and laying Bheeshma low? If anything, they ought to have rejoiced that Bheeshma's release was now imminent, since Ganga had insisted that at least one son had to be kept alive to fulfill her marital duties. Besides, I fail to see how Arjun's defeating Bheeshma was any more sinful than what Ganga did to his 7 elder brothers.

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.
One thing about the story about the 'killing' of Arjun that strikes me. Bheeshma was one of the Vasus, and they had wanted to be liberated as soon as born, which is why Ganga did the otherwise heinous act of drowning them. Given that, why were they upset @ Arjun cheating and laying Bheeshma low? If anything, they ought to have rejoiced that Bheeshma's release was now imminent, since Ganga had insisted that at least one son had to be kept alive to fulfill her marital duties. Besides, I fail to see how Arjun's defeating Bheeshma was any more sinful than what Ganga did to his 7 elder brothers.

Yes. Brilliant question. The only possible answer IMO could be that Vasus and Ganga were upset with the piercing of Bhishma's body rather than Bhishma's end coming near. It was for pain of Bhishma rather than anything else. Moreover, also Arjun didn't do it with the knowledge and intention to liberate Bhishma bud did it for own cause of winning the battle.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

Thanks to Santanu's boon, nobody could have liberated Bheeshma except himself, so to expect Arjun to liberate him would have been futile. Arjun's goal was to immobilize Bheeshma so that he couldn't continue to massacre the Pandava armies. Whether Bheeshma died or not would be up to him.

Also, the Vasu condition of waiving the curse if Arjun was killed by Babruvahana defied much sense, since he was brought back to life after that. Killed means that Arjun would have had to be killed once and for all, and at that point, there wasn't much left for him to do.

Also, I thought that if a horse was successfully captured, as it was by Babruvahana, then the onus of doing the yagna now fell on the ruler who had accomplished this, which would be Babruvahana. So the other thing that beats me is - how could Arjun continue w/ the yagna?

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.
Thanks to Santanu's boon, nobody could have liberated Bheeshma except himself, so to expect Arjun to liberate him would have been futile. Arjun's goal was to immobilize Bheeshma so that he couldn't continue to massacre the Pandava armies. Whether Bheeshma died or not would be up to him.
I said intention of Arjun and not his ability to liberate Bhishma. Exactly what you said (and exactly what I said), Arjun's goal was to immobilize Bhishma (to win the war) and in that process he gave him pain rather than with the intention that Bhishma would be liberated soon (like Ganga had while drowning babies). You didn't catch the essence of my post I think.

Also, the Vasu condition of waiving the curse if Arjun was killed by Babruvahana defied much sense, since he was brought back to life after that. Killed means that Arjun would have had to be killed once and for all, and at that point, there wasn't much left for him to do.

Also, I thought that if a horse was successfully captured, as it was by Babruvahana, then the onus of doing the yagna now fell on the ruler who had accomplished this, which would be Babruvahana. So the other thing that beats me is - how could Arjun continue w/ the yagna?
I knew about this query of yours and was impliedly in my mind while writing my earlier post today when I wrote that the sacrifice had to be continued by the winner. But then LK were undefeated and still they returned the horse back and surrendered the right (along with responsibility) to perform the sacrifice. Don't you think this to be the same case?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

A new question occurred to me after the clarification in the MM Games thread that Jarasandha's daughter was married to Sahadev. A reference to this can be found in Ashramavasa Parva, for those who doubt it.

The thing that struck me as curious was that both Nakul's marriage to Sishupala's daughter Karenamati, as well as Sahadev's marriage to Jarasandha's daughter (unsure about her name) were arranged marriages - it wasn't like Arjun's marriages to Uloopi, Chitrangada or Subhadra. Since Jarasandha's daughter was presumably married first - immediately after his death, wouldn't he have married the older of the 2 sons of Madri, who didn't have any other wives? IIRC, Nakula was recognized as older than Sahadev, and presumably, this princess would have been the 2nd wife to either of them, whereas had she been tied to Bhima or Arjun, she'd have been wife# 3 or 5. I'm assuming that by then, Yudhisthir too was married to Devika, which is why she didn't marry him.

So the 2 assumptions I'm making here are:

Both daughters of Jarasandha & Sishupala married Sahadev & Nakul immediately after the deaths of their fathers (it doesn't make sense to think that any daughter of Jarasandha would marry 14 years after her father's death - that wasn't the custom in those days)
Neither Nakul nor Sahadev had >2 wives - these 2, and Draupadi b4 them.

In such a case, wouldn't a princess automatically marry the older of the available princes? In which case, Nakul should have ended up w/ Jarasandha's daughter, and Sahadev w/ Sishupala's.

I won't revisit something I discussed earlier in this thread - about Sishupala being much younger than Nakul, so that his sister, rather than daughter, may have been who married Nakul.

Incidentally, does anyone know the origins of Yudhisthir's other wife Devika? Was she a princess of any kingdom, or just someone else he chose to marry?

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.
One thing about the story about the 'killing' of Arjun that strikes me. Bheeshma was one of the Vasus, and they had wanted to be liberated as soon as born, which is why Ganga did the otherwise heinous act of drowning them. Given that, why were they upset @ Arjun cheating and laying Bheeshma low? If anything, they ought to have rejoiced that Bheeshma's release was now imminent, since Ganga had insisted that at least one son had to be kept alive to fulfill her marital duties. Besides, I fail to see how Arjun's defeating Bheeshma was any more sinful than what Ganga did to his 7 elder brothers.

There is a story before that.

When Vashishtha came to know thru his yogic power how the Vasus the kidnapped his beloved Nandini, (the actual kidnapping was done by only one of them- the rest stood by watching) he cursed them to be born into the mortal world. The Vasus, frightened and repentant fell at Vashishtha's feet imploring him to reverse his curse. Vashishtha, now mollified granted that seven of them would be liberated as soon as they were born, but Prabhasa, the one who actually siezed the cow would have to work out his karma as a human.

Then the Vasus asked Ganga to allow them to be born thru her womb and throw them into her waters as soon as they were born.

Where does it say that the remaining seven were upset on Arjuna felling Bhishma down?

As for Arjuna's curse to be killed by his own son, it was pronounced by Ganga herself. The curse was overheard by Ulopi's father, who lived in her waters and requested her not be carried away by motherly feelings.The curse she had just pronounced would only lead to greater heartache - and- Shesha (Uloopi's father) adds tactfully- Would Ganga's son be happy on seeing his beloved grandson- Arjuna- be killed by his own son?

After some more assuaging talk, Sesha forces Ganga to grant that Arjuna could be brought back alive.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

The full account of what happened after Arjun downed Bheeshma was narrated to Arjun by Uloopi herself.

Ganga's curse was a very passive curse, so to speak - the Vasus approached her wanting Arjun to be cursed, and she essentially said 'Tathastha'. It's not like Ganga reacted to Bheeshma's defeat the way Gandhari reacted to Duryodhan's when she cursed Krishna. And when Kauravya - Uloopi's father - approached them to get Arjun's curse lifted, it was the Vasus he approached, not Ganga, since they were the ones driving this curse.

Honestly, Bheeshma's defeat - not slaying, since he didn't die until he wanted to - was overcompensated by the Pandavas. Yudhisthir did the Ashwamedha to atone for his killing, as well as that of Drona and Karna. Arjun died in battle to pay off that debt as well. Overkill, I would say, in a manner of speaking, and all this incident did was expose Babruvahana as the most supreme warrior on earth. If Arjun could be killed for Bheeshma's death, why not for Karna's death as well? Just b'cos Kunti would have a conflict of interests, all of Karna's brothers & sons were dead and poor Radha didn't have the divine powers that Ganga had?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

The other day, I was reading an ACK Parikshit, which briefly describes the story of how he died, and the snake sacrifice that Janamejaya conducted to avenge him. Some interesting things came up here.

In this story, Parikshit, one day, was lost in a forest and approached Rishi Shamika to ask him for directions. Since the rishi was engaged in a vow of silence, he ignored the king, and Parikshit, piqued, put a dead snake around his shoulders. Later, when Shamika's son Shringi heard about it, he cursed Parikshit that he'd die 7 days after that day at the hands of Takshasha. Later, when Parikshit learnt about the curse, he regretted that it hadn't occurred to him that the rishi was engaged in a vow of silence.

What follows is interesting. The Pandava courtiers suggested that they build a high security palace on the top of a pillar, and have it properly secured, w/ guards inspecting every item that went in. One sage, hearing about the curse, decided to become rich by going to Hastinapur and presenting Parikshit w/ the antidote. On the way, Takshasha encountered him and asked him to demonstrate the powers of the antidote. To illustrate his point, Takshasha assumed his real form, bit a tree and incinerated it, and asked the sage to revive it. The sage using the antidote made the ashes first into charcoal, and then restored the tree. Takshasha realized that this sage would foil his plans, so he persuaded the sage to accept whatever wealth he gave him and not to meet Parikshit. The sage agreed.

Takshasha then took the form of a worm and hid himself in a fruit basket that was taken to Parikshit. When the king discovered the worm, Takshasha assumed his complete form, bit Parikshit and disappeared out of the window. The courtiers realized that it was him, but it was too late.

So Janamejaya was made king at a really young age, and ruled the kingdom wisely. One day, he heard about how his father had been killed and vowed to kill Takshasha. He then did an yagna in which thousands of nagas/snakes were killed. Vasuki approached Brahma, who advised him to take refuge w/ Rishi Ashtika to save his race.

Takshasha was under the refuge of Indra, but at the 11th hour, Indra felt drained and realized that if he didn't bail on him, he too would fall victim to the yagna, and abandoned him. However, while Takshasha was falling, Ashtika came and persuaded Janamejaya to end the yagna, promising him that the Nagas won't be a threat to him or his descendants going forward.

A few interesting things I found about the story:

The construction of a tower to protect Parikshit. From what I read elsewhere, he spent the last 7 days having SB narrated to him by Vyasa, and on the 7th day, he actually died before Takshasha bit him
The sage who had the antidote to Takshasha's venom being easily bribed into not meeting him
Janamejaya being only a boy when Parikshit died, probably around the age of 72. Assuming that he was in his teens, Parikshit had him pretty late in life.
The objective - thousands of Nagas were killed, except the real guilty one - Takshasha himself. It would have been like the Pandavas wiping out everybody but sparing Duryodhan. Janamejaya should have researched ways to specifically target Takshasha, including propriating his ancestor Indra.

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Good of you Vrish to have steered the discussion towards Parikshit.

I have heard a slightly different version:

When Parikshit returned back to the palace and removed his diadem, he regained his sanity and slowly the enormity of his action dawned on him. At first he could scarcely believe that he, the grand nephew of Dharma-putra Yudhishthira had done such a deed, but unfortunately it was indeed so. Immediately he vowed to punish his body, which had done such a deed, by denying it food or water, in effect, dying through starvation. It was after taking such a vow, that he came to know about Shringi's curse. Rather than attempt to thwart the curse, he accepted it humbly and prepared to meet his death. He called in his ministers and arranged for Janamajeya's coronation.

Taking leave of his wife/ ves, he retired to the banks of Ganga which was when Sage Shukhdev made his appearance and started narrating the Srimad Bhagavatham to him. At the end of the seventh day, since he had been constantly listening to the Bhagavtam, Parikshit's soul was able to free itself from the body on its own accord. Thus, what Takshak bit was just Parikshit's inert body.

Now the question arises, how could so cultured a king as Parikshit- one was blessed with constant vision of the Lord, when he was in his mother's womb- how could such a king commit such an act ? After all, he was Vishnuraat- one who is protected by Vishnu. How did his intellect take leave of him at that crucial moment?

The answer lies in the diadem he was wearing on that fateful day. Earlier in the morning, he had been rummaging through the fabulous jewels and ornaments his grandfathers had acquired during their military expeditions. His eyes fell on a grand, sparkling crown and driven by a strange urge, put it on. Immediately he felt like going on a hunt - a sport he never really had any fascination for. And that was also when he committed the dastardly act. After returning back, when he took the crown off his head, he regained his sanity.

Why? What was so special about the crown?

It was the crown of Jarasandha - one of the several treasures he had obtained through unfair means. And after Bhima killed Jarasandha, it found its way into the Pandava treasury.

When Parikshit put the crown on his head, Kali (the presiding spirit of the Kali Yuga) entered into it surreptitiously. After all, hadn't Parikshit himself offered five havens to Kali to reside in ? And wasn't ill gotten gold one of them? Kali grabbed this oppurtunity to enter Parikshit's body and twist his mind.

But the saving grace was that, Lord Krishna who had protected him even before he was born, now once again manifested himself to grant him salvation, this time in the form of Srimad Bhagavatham.

Edited by varaali - 12 years ago

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Let me hasten to add- before Vrish bombards me with questions 😆 - what ever I have written in violet font is what I once heard in a katha . There is no textual proof to it. But it makes for an interesting read, so I added it here.

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