Mahabharata Related Discussions (Page 2)

Certain things in Mahabharat or in our lives too are destined to bbe the way they are destined to be

Your question is justified, but if  Arjun killing of Bhishma and Karna in this way is wrong then one would equally assume even Sri  Rama killing of Vali is wrong. Karna and bhisma both are shishyas of Parsurama, both were equally divine and both in every field were at par with arjuna. whats make the difference were sides in terms of dharma and adharma. if one gets killed in unjustified way and if this killing could bring goods to others then the killing is justified. Arjun could not have killed them in front fight war and if both of them were alive, padvas would have never won over hastinapur.  whom they were supporting, the former because of his vow and latter because of his debt in one way or other of course supporting  adharma. both supporting wrong and supporting  wrong is equal to doing wrong, other wise Anna hajare would have passed janlokpal bill as not all of politicians are corrupt.

P.S. Sorry if last sentence is out of context but it is just an example.



Edited by _rajnish_ - 18 October 2011 at 12:18pm

Precisely!!!  In fact, a lot of things happened b/w Krishna killing Kansa and his meeting the Pandavas.

1. He attended his Gurukul - most likely @ the same time that the Kurus were under the tutelage of Kripacharya.  The superfast aspect is probably a Vyasa insertion - chances are he would have spent some years there w/ Balarama & Sudama
2. He returns to Mathura and the wars w/ Jarasandha start. 17 such wars take place b4 he moves his population to Dwarka
   
3. Rukmini's swayamvara
4. Syamantaka gem incidents, which culminate in his marriages to Jambavati & Satyabhama

During the time that Krishna was busy fighting Jarasandha, the Kurus were under Dronacharya, and @ the end of it, had their war w/ Drupada in which Arjun presented him to Drona, as vaarali points out.  Rukmini's swayamvara would probably have co-incided w/ the tournament where Karna first surfaced.  Then, during the Syamantaka episodes, the Varnavarta Lakshagriha incident would have been plotted, and by the time Krishna married Satyabhama and set out for Hastinapur, the Pandavas & Kunti were already off.

Vaarali's & Vinu's observations about Krishna being younger than Yudhisthir & Bhima, and the same age as Arjun is correct.

Vaarali

I once was in an YouTube thread which had a similar discussion in the comments field of one of their videos.  The debate there was whether Arjun was a greater warrior than Karna.

The argument that Arjun couldn't have defeated them all doesn't sound credible - in Matsya, he defeated 7 of those leaders - Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa, Ashwathama, Karna and Duryodhan.  On day 14 of the war, he alone wiped out 8 of the Kaurava akshauni's (out of 11) in his journey to hunt down Jayadrath (granted, Bhima & Satyaki also played their roles).

Having said all that, his oft repeated boast about wiping out the Kaurava army ignored that he couldn't be in more than one place @ a time.  That is why Drona had no problem massaceing all his allies on different days - Drupada, Virata, Vrihatkshatra (of Kekaya), Satrajit, Vikra, Sankha, Kuntibhoja, Purujit, Dhrishtaketu, Sahadev (of Magadha), and just about every major Pandava ally who died b4 him.  I often think that Krishna should have had all his sons fight on the Pandava side to improve the odds for the Pandavas, otherwise it was too much of a load on Bhima, Arjun & Satyaki.

On day 16, Arjun was not defeated and spared by Karna - this was downright defamation of him by BRC, and what I hated most about that serial.  They had a brief indecisive encounter, but much of that day, Arjun was fighting a vindictive Ashwatthama, while Karna was fighting (and defeated) Nakula.  Neither did Karna defeat Bhima on day 14 - while he did recall his promise to Kunti, Bhima too recalled that he can't kill Karna since Arjun had vowed to do that.  Oh, and while we are @ it, Dushashan was killed on day 17, not 16.  On day 17, Karna did cut his bowstings a few times, but Arjun reattached it and continued - it was one really a stalemate until Karna's wheel sunk.

As for the divyastras, Arjun used most of them.  Jayadratha was killed using the Pasupatastra, while Karna was slain using the Anjalika.  Arjuna also used the other astras he had, like the Brahmastra,  to massacre Krishna's Shamshaptakas, who were fighting for Duryodhan.

Dhrishtadyumna, for all his reputation, never defeated Drona, Kripa or Ashwatthama even once.  As for the cheating, all of them were predetermined by other sinful acts of their recipients - Bheeshma for destroying Amba's life, Drona for using divine weapons against ordinary soldiers, Karna for his 2 curses, and Duryodhan for both Markandeya's curse as well as Bhima's vow.  Another totally worthless warrior was Yudhisthir - Shalya was killed in an Abhimanyu like manner by Bhima, Nakula, Sahadev & Dhristadyumna all surrounding him and destroying his weapons. It wasn't a simple spear duel b/w Yudhisthir & Shalya either.

This is what I found in the Sambhava Parva:

And within a short time Yudhishthira, the son of Kunti, by his good behaviour, manners and close application to business, overshadowed the deeds of his father. And the second Pandava, Vrikodara, began to receive continued lessons from Sankarshana (Valarama) in encounters with the sword and the mace and on the chariot. And after Bhima's education was finished, he became in strength like unto Dyumatsena himself and continuing to live in harmony with his brothers, he began to exert his prowess. 

The above passage says "continued lessons" which means his initial lessons would have been from Drona

Edited by varaali - 28 October 2011 at 3:07am

One more thing - long back I read that Dhridrashtra married Gandhari and her 10 sisters. Any information on this? I thought it was one of the fake stories but has anyone read this before?

Shakuni was killed in battle by Nakul or Sahadev, I forgot who.

I too read that Shakuni was imprisoned along with his kin and friends. I also read somewhere that all of them used to give Shakuni their share of food so that he may survive. In the end Shakuni was the only one who survived. Shakuni's dice is supposedly made of the bones of his kind and friends who died for him and that's why it never fails him.

I don't know how true it is.