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What about Ankur's dream?? (Page 11)

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Angelbud

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Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:03am | IP Logged
The point is women should have right to decide their future regardless of any man!  Cant you guys see that!!  I didn't want to post on this thread that much as I can see you are all very sensitive about the matter, but the fact is no one should have the right to make decisions for anyone in these circumstances!!

Once a girl reaches 16 she should have the god given right to choose for her self!! The question of this topic should not have any relevancy other than to point out the ignorance that still pervades!  Is India always going to be controlled by men?  Im a man in the UK and even I can see how wrong that is!  

I would never ever ever expect my sister to do anything for me other than to accept me for who i am!  I think its despicable that so many women are under the oppression of fathers and brothers!  If i was a woman under that kind of oppression i would rather live in the street and choose my own path than have some out dated ethic choose for me!!

Come on girls!! please find a voice!!

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b2011

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Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by b2011

Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by feeb

i agree both sandhya & ankur's wife have 4got10 ankur's dream. sandhya jsut happily assumed ankur will 4get about his dreams & help her . we have people saying if ankur loved his sis he would forgo his dream, why not the other way round, sandhya knows how imp going to USA is for ankur, she could have tried to convince him to let her stay in hostel or pg or get a job & wait for him to come back from the us ,so help her support her dreams
instead all they had were arguments, she could have convinced her babhi she will manage alone here, pls join my brother since my parents mortaged the house for ur trip. it would have worked out jsut fine, but after all this is a serial


@ Bold,,, that is exactly what is inexplicable..we have not seen her putting up  a passionate defense of her dreams..

and also y'day she will be seen to apologize to her father for not fulfilling her father's dream ..Excuse me... wasn't that supposed to be ur dream ?/ that dialogue of hers ..i am presuming was created to show the mahantha of the heroine , my only question to that  statement is.. what difference does it make to a dead man whether his dream is fulfilled or not whilst it makes a helluva difference to a living man .. since he can feel it ..That [dialogue]  somehow diluted her stance for me..
 
Tanthya, I do not think so.  Children express their wish to the parents that they want to become this or that and they do forget too.  But when parents feel their child's wish is genuine, they nourish it, then the child is encouraged and its wish is transformed to an ambition.  So, it is the dream of both parents and child.
 
Regarding her not putting up passionate defense of her dreams, she is still young and just recently lost both her parents.  When a sibling 5-6 years elder to her is confused and leaving things to take their own course (he did not take his own decision in case of marriage to Suraj, he just let Kisna speak all those lies), then how can we expect Sandhya to defend her standpoint, at least she should have been given some more time.



Bharathi,

Agree with u that  she has lost her parents , but that must actually spur her to fulfill their dreams ..The desire, the need will increase  rather than weaken ..it will almost reach a frenzied level for a girl like Sandhya who dreamt about it in her dreams too ...Here she has just folded like a pack of cards which somehow undermines her obsession ...Notice the difference between ankur and Sandhya..both have lost their parents, in addition he is also battling a guilty conscience but  nothing is stopping him in achieving his goal ..It was that sort of determination one expects from a strong willed girl ..Big smile
 
Agree with your point.  She gave up too soon considering her bhabhi and her child which again makes Ankur selfish.  He has no concern for his sister, wife, his child or his parents' wish in front of his US job.

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tanthya

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Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by b2011

Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by b2011

Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by feeb

i agree both sandhya & ankur's wife have 4got10 ankur's dream. sandhya jsut happily assumed ankur will 4get about his dreams & help her . we have people saying if ankur loved his sis he would forgo his dream, why not the other way round, sandhya knows how imp going to USA is for ankur, she could have tried to convince him to let her stay in hostel or pg or get a job & wait for him to come back from the us ,so help her support her dreams
instead all they had were arguments, she could have convinced her babhi she will manage alone here, pls join my brother since my parents mortaged the house for ur trip. it would have worked out jsut fine, but after all this is a serial


@ Bold,,, that is exactly what is inexplicable..we have not seen her putting up  a passionate defense of her dreams..

and also y'day she will be seen to apologize to her father for not fulfilling her father's dream ..Excuse me... wasn't that supposed to be ur dream ?/ that dialogue of hers ..i am presuming was created to show the mahantha of the heroine , my only question to that  statement is.. what difference does it make to a dead man whether his dream is fulfilled or not whilst it makes a helluva difference to a living man .. since he can feel it ..That [dialogue]  somehow diluted her stance for me..
 
Tanthya, I do not think so.  Children express their wish to the parents that they want to become this or that and they do forget too.  But when parents feel their child's wish is genuine, they nourish it, then the child is encouraged and its wish is transformed to an ambition.  So, it is the dream of both parents and child.
 
Regarding her not putting up passionate defense of her dreams, she is still young and just recently lost both her parents.  When a sibling 5-6 years elder to her is confused and leaving things to take their own course (he did not take his own decision in case of marriage to Suraj, he just let Kisna speak all those lies), then how can we expect Sandhya to defend her standpoint, at least she should have been given some more time.



Bharathi,

Agree with u that  she has lost her parents , but that must actually spur her to fulfill their dreams ..The desire, the need will increase  rather than weaken ..it will almost reach a frenzied level for a girl like Sandhya who dreamt about it in her dreams too ...Here she has just folded like a pack of cards which somehow undermines her obsession ...Notice the difference between ankur and Sandhya..both have lost their parents, in addition he is also battling a guilty conscience but  nothing is stopping him in achieving his goal ..It was that sort of determination one expects from a strong willed girl ..Big smile
 
Agree with your point.  She gave up too soon considering her bhabhi and her child which again makes Ankur selfish.  He has no concern for his sister, wife, his child or his parents' wish in front of his US job.


Ankur is selfish, there is no doubt about that ..but I would not tag him as unconcerned..had he been unconcerned , he would just left Sandhya to her devices , would have given ultimatum to his wife or even threatened to cut off all ties with her..He does none of that..He tries to settle Sandhya in a good house, he repeatedly asks whether the boy's family will allow  Sandhya to study further [ Kisna assures him that will be so , offers proof by pointing  out that Suraj's sister is studying in school ]..He pleads and talks it out with his wife ..So far he has never commanded or ordered Ankita despite her many jibes ...What Ankur is ..is a driven man with flaws ..who is discharging his responsibilities to the best of his abilities..

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Angelbud

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Angelbud

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Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:30pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Angelbud

The point is women should have right to decide their future regardless of any man!  Cant you guys see that!!  I didn't want to post on this thread that much as I can see you are all very sensitive about the matter, but the fact is no one should have the right to make decisions for anyone in these circumstances!!

Once a girl reaches 16 she should have the god given right to choose for her self!! The question of this topic should not have any relevancy other than to point out the ignorance that still pervades!  Is India always going to be controlled by men?  Im a man in the UK and even I can see how wrong that is!  

I would never ever ever expect my sister to do anything for me other than to accept me for who i am!  I think its despicable that so many women are under the oppression of fathers and brothers!  If i was a woman under that kind of oppression i would rather live in the street and choose my own path than have some out dated ethic choose for me!!

Come on girls!! please find a voice!!

I agree with the above!!!

tanthya

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Posted: 28 September 2011 at 7:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Opti

Ankur is selfish because:

1.He is forcing a marriage on a girl who is not ready for marriage only because it would leave him free to go to the U.S.

Yes, added to that is his thinking that Sandhya is going to get married someday so why not today ??

2.He has not revealed anything about the groom or his family either to his wife or his sister for fear that they may not agree to the match. This when he himself knows very well that his sister will be a misfit in the house she is going into because the groom's family wanted an uneducated girl who is good at managing a house and the groom himself has limited education.

A Grave omission on his part and quite inexcusable from POV

3.As far as the question of exploring other options is concerned, he should have done so, which he did not because at the back of his mind, he never considered his sister's dreams seriously. Even before his parents' death, he had taken the liberty of finding a groom for her without consulting his parents or his sister.  He seems like a real MCP who thinks women have to just tow the line drawn by the men in their lives, be it brother, father or husband.

No, He is not the true blue MCP Since he comes across as a caring hubby to his wife and not as a controlling one ...It is true that he never thought seriously about Sandhya's goals nor did he think that her dream was worth pursuing

4.After the loss of his parents he had taken a vow to fulfill the incomplete responsibilities of his father. Seeing Sandhya as an IPS officer was not only the dream of his sister but also that of his father. So what became of that promise? 

Responsibilities yes..but not dreams ..and he is fulfilling the responsibilities  as deemed by  Manu ..

5.He is selfish from the point of view of Suraj's family too because he hid the truth about his sister's educated status from them too. He knew if they are aware of the truth, they may not agree to the wedding and he cannot go abroad as planned.

Agreed !!


Even if we presume that the town they live in does not have hostels or paying guest accommodation, he could have taken her to the nearest metro and found such a hostel for her. After all he did have 15 days to do so. Instead of trying to fix up a marriage in that time he should have tried to do this instead.  In case of these efforts fail and he is not able to fix up a safe place for his sister, he should have stayed back.  Being the head of the family he should have fulfilled his responsibility and sometimes responsibilities come with sacrifices.  It cannot be helped.


Academic session unless backed by huge capitation and donation do not admit a student in the middle of a session ...As i said, he thinks  that he is completing his responsibility by getting his sister married...

At the end of the day he failed in his duty as a brother, especially one who had assumed the role of a father in the absence of his own parents.  If today his wife is able to accompany him to the U.S. it is because his sister was willing to let her parents mortgage the house in which she too had a share.

He never demanded  nor requested that sacrifice ...

As to realising his own dream, he could have done so at a later date also. It is not that he will never get another opportunity.  He wanted to play God in his sister's life.  I'm sure he will have a miserable life in the U.S. because the recession will break out and the guy may lose his job.

He will not get an oppo later on ...This is a fiction..he is not flying for real !!

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Opti

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Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by Opti

Ankur is selfish because:

1.He is forcing a marriage on a girl who is not ready for marriage only because it would leave him free to go to the U.S.

Yes, added to that is his thinking that Sandhya is going to get married someday so why not today ??

There is a big problem in that thinking because he disregards her thoughts on the same. 

2.He has not revealed anything about the groom or his family either to his wife or his sister for fear that they may not agree to the match. This when he himself knows very well that his sister will be a misfit in the house she is going into because the groom's family wanted an uneducated girl who is good at managing a house and the groom himself has limited education.

A Grave omission on his part and quite inexcusable from POV

3.As far as the question of exploring other options is concerned, he should have done so, which he did not because at the back of his mind, he never considered his sister's dreams seriously. Even before his parents' death, he had taken the liberty of finding a groom for her without consulting his parents or his sister.  He seems like a real MCP who thinks women have to just tow the line drawn by the men in their lives, be it brother, father or husband.

No, He is not the true blue MCP Since he comes across as a caring hubby to his wife and not as a controlling one ...It is true that he never thought seriously about Sandhya's goals nor did he think that her dream was worth pursuing

If he is not a true MCP, why did he tell his wife, "I don't care whether you accompany me or not, I am going, come what may."  He repeated this even after she told him she was pregnant.  A man who disregards his wife's/sister's wishes is an MCP to me. As to his caring nature, I didn't see it that way.  Even when he bought her that chain it was to placate her for not taking her along with him to the U.S.

4.After the loss of his parents he had taken a vow to fulfill the incomplete responsibilities of his father. Seeing Sandhya as an IPS officer was not only the dream of his sister but also that of his father. So what became of that promise? 

Responsibilities yes..but not dreams ..and he is fulfilling the responsibilities  as deemed by  Manu ..

How is he fulfilling that responsibility? By pushing her into a marriage with someone totally unsuitable for her? He is just trying to get rid off his responsibilities at the first available opportunity
for his own selfish purpose.  I don't think this is what Manu meant and if it is then, Manu is no better.


5.He is selfish from the point of view of Suraj's family too because he hid the truth about his sister's educated status from them too. He knew if they are aware of the truth, they may not agree to the wedding and he cannot go abroad as planned.

Agreed !!


Even if we presume that the town they live in does not have hostels or paying guest accommodation, he could have taken her to the nearest metro and found such a hostel for her. After all he did have 15 days to do so. Instead of trying to fix up a marriage in that time he should have tried to do this instead.  In case of these efforts fail and he is not able to fix up a safe place for his sister, he should have stayed back.  Being the head of the family he should have fulfilled his responsibility and sometimes responsibilities come with sacrifices.  It cannot be helped.


Academic session unless backed by huge capitation and donation do not admit a student in the middle of a session ...As i said, he thinks  that he is completing his responsibility by getting his sister married...

This is where his selfishness assumes giant proportions.  The haste in fixing up the marriage clearly indicates that he gives more importance to his U.S. assignment rather than his sister's life. Even he is not too convinced that Suraj is the right match for his sister but one phone call from his office sealed the matter for him. As to his thinking he is completing his responsibilities by getting her married, I would say that he is convincing himself that he is but deep down he knows he has failed as a brother.


At the end of the day he failed in his duty as a brother, especially one who had assumed the role of a father in the absence of his own parents.  If today his wife is able to accompany him to the U.S. it is because his sister was willing to let her parents mortgage the house in which she too had a share.

He never demanded  nor requested that sacrifice ...


Oh yes, he never demanded or requested that. He was all set to leave behind his wife.  Just for argument's sake lets say that his parents were also fine by it and did not make any arrangements for sending his wife with him. Lets presume the rest of the story followed the same course as the show. What would he have done once he realised she was in the family way? He could not have taken her along because her visa would not have come through and they would not have been able to make the arrangements for the finances at such short notice. Would he have still planned to leave her behind because he needed to go to the U.S. at any cost? I think he would have done that because he did tell her that he was leaving even if she was not accompanying him. This is even after he learnt that she was pregnant.  So much for him caring for his wife.

As to realising his own dream, he could have done so at a later date also. It is not that he will never get another opportunity.  He wanted to play God in his sister's life.  I'm sure he will have a miserable life in the U.S. because the recession will break out and the guy may lose his job.

He will not get an oppo later on ...This is a fiction..he is not flying for real !!

How can he presume that he will not get an opportunity later on?  Can he read the future?  If he had selflessly fulfilled his duties as a brother, he would have definitely got an opportunity, maybe even a better one but since he failed in it I only hope they show us some poetic justice in his failure at his job in the U.S. and his leading a miserable life even as his sister who was pushed in this unsuitable marriage ends up having a very successful professional and personal life.  I too know it is fiction which is why I want them to show the sharp contrast in the two siblings lives. Since Ankita was always good at heart and had the best interests of her sister-in-law I would like her to take up some job because their family ship is sinking and end up being more successful than her husband.  Ankur can then wallow in a lot of jealousy at the success of the two women in his life while he himself ends up a miserable failure. 



Edited by Opti - 29 September 2011 at 8:55pm

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Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:28pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by tanthya


Agree with u that  she has lost her parents , but that must actually spur her to fulfill their dreams ..The desire, the need will increase  rather than weaken ..it will almost reach a frenzied level for a girl like Sandhya who dreamt about it in her dreams too ...Here she has just folded like a pack of cards which somehow undermines her obsession ...Notice the difference between ankur and Sandhya..both have lost their parents, in addition he is also battling a guilty conscience but  nothing is stopping him in achieving his goal ..It was that sort of determination one expects from a strong willed girl ..Big smile

You cant compare Ankur's situation with Sandhya's. Ankur is ruthless in fulfilling his dreams. He doesn't care whether his pregnant wife accompanies him or not. He doesn't care about what sort of family he was getting his sister was getting married into etc.  When people make comments that Sandhya should have suggested that she lives in a hostel and as a PG one should keep in mind she comes from a small town which may not be having these facilities.  Sandhya was strong willed all along and did not buckle in until the moment she overheard her sister-in-law volunteering to stay back even when she was pregnant. Now her brother may be a selfish man who cares for no one but himself but she is not built that way. She could not let her sister-in-law stay away from her husband during the most important phase of their married life. She could not deprive a baby of his father although the father himself can only seen the green card if he is born in U.S. soil. 

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Posted: 29 September 2011 at 12:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Opti

Originally posted by tanthya

Originally posted by Opti

Ankur is selfish because:

1.He is forcing a marriage on a girl who is not ready for marriage only because it would leave him free to go to the U.S.

Yes, added to that is his thinking that Sandhya is going to get married someday so why not today ??

There is a big problem in that thinking because he disregards her thoughts on the same. 

Yes, He is doing that  bec  as a  elder brother he thinks he knows better ..

2.He has not revealed anything about the groom or his family either to his wife or his sister for fear that they may not agree to the match. This when he himself knows very well that his sister will be a misfit in the house she is going into because the groom's family wanted an uneducated girl who is good at managing a house and the groom himself has limited education.

A Grave omission on his part and quite inexcusable from POV

3.As far as the question of exploring other options is concerned, he should have done so, which he did not because at the back of his mind, he never considered his sister's dreams seriously. Even before his parents' death, he had taken the liberty of finding a groom for her without consulting his parents or his sister.  He seems like a real MCP who thinks women have to just tow the line drawn by the men in their lives, be it brother, father or husband.

No, He is not the true blue MCP Since he comes across as a caring hubby to his wife and not as a controlling one ...It is true that he never thought seriously about Sandhya's goals nor did he think that her dream was worth pursuing

If he is not a true MCP, why did he tell his wife, "I don't care whether you accompany me or not, I am going, come what may."  He repeated this even after she told him she was pregnant.  A man who disregards his wife's/sister's wishes is an MCP to me. As to his caring nature, I didn't see it that way.  Even when he bought her that chain it was to placate her for not taking her along with him to the U.S.

That was frustration to me  not MCP thing.. had  it been MCP, he would have coldly told her that he is her husband and reminded her that it is wife's duty to follow her hubby and ordered her to shut up and do as he told...

4.After the loss of his parents he had taken a vow to fulfill the incomplete responsibilities of his father. Seeing Sandhya as an IPS officer was not only the dream of his sister but also that of his father. So what became of that promise? 

Responsibilities yes..but not dreams ..and he is fulfilling the responsibilities  as deemed by  Manu ..

How is he fulfilling that responsibility? By pushing her into a marriage with someone totally unsuitable for her? He is just trying to get rid off his responsibilities at the first available opportunity
for his own selfish purpose.  I don't think this is what Manu meant and if it is then, Manu is no better.

Manu is lot worse , he makes even MCP's like a gallant KnightsSmile ...He did not start out with an intention of pushing her into an unsuitable alliance, he first tried in a family equal to their's but with time constraint and a wily Kisna at his heels.. he cemented this highly unsuitable alliance...He is trying to discharge his responsibilities  to attain his goal... Ankur is selfish , there is no doubts about that ...but at the same time he is also not leaving Sandhya to fend for herself ..He is trying to set her up in some protected environment  after making sure that she will be allowed to further her academic course and can pursue her dream..He is doing what he can in a space of few days..


5.He is selfish from the point of view of Suraj's family too because he hid the truth about his sister's educated status from them too. He knew if they are aware of the truth, they may not agree to the wedding and he cannot go abroad as planned.

Agreed !!


Even if we presume that the town they live in does not have hostels or paying guest accommodation, he could have taken her to the nearest metro and found such a hostel for her. After all he did have 15 days to do so. Instead of trying to fix up a marriage in that time he should have tried to do this instead.  In case of these efforts fail and he is not able to fix up a safe place for his sister, he should have stayed back.  Being the head of the family he should have fulfilled his responsibility and sometimes responsibilities come with sacrifices.  It cannot be helped.


Academic session unless backed by huge capitation and donation do not admit a student in the middle of a session ...As i said, he thinks  that he is completing his responsibility by getting his sister married...

This is where his selfishness assumes giant proportions.  The haste in fixing up the marriage clearly indicates that he gives more importance to his U.S. assignment rather than his sister's life. Even he is not too convinced that Suraj is the right match for his sister but one phone call from his office sealed the matter for him. As to his thinking he is completing his responsibilities by getting her married, I would say that he is convincing himself that he is but deep down he knows he has failed as a brother.


Yes !! He knows that he is doing wrong  but

At the end of the day he failed in his duty as a brother, especially one who had assumed the role of a father in the absence of his own parents.  If today his wife is able to accompany him to the U.S. it is because his sister was willing to let her parents mortgage the house in which she too had a share.

He never demanded  nor requested that sacrifice ...


Oh yes, he never demanded or requested that. He was all set to leave behind his wife.  Just for argument's sake lets say that his parents were also fine by it and did not make any arrangements for sending his wife with him. Lets presume the rest of the story followed the same course as the show. What would he have done once he realised she was in the family way? He could not have taken her along because her visa would not have come through and they would not have been able to make the arrangements for the finances at such short notice. Would he have still planned to leave her behind because he needed to go to the U.S. at any cost? I think he would have done that because he did tell her that he was leaving even if she was not accompanying him. This is even after he learnt that she was pregnant.  So much for him caring for his wife.


Yes, I think he would have left her ..and there is nothing  scandalous about leaving a wife for a assignment..Lots of Hubby's do that   .. it is here that I do not understand Kothari's thinking ..why mortgage a house for a visa that too when Ankita and Ankur were going for 2 years period and were returning back to India..It would have made sense if they were shifting permanently.. or was it to highlight the conservative mindset of the Kothari's that despite  their education they still believe in the old values ..

As to realising his own dream, he could have done so at a later date also. It is not that he will never get another opportunity.  He wanted to play God in his sister's life.  I'm sure he will have a miserable life in the U.S. because the recession will break out and the guy may lose his job.

He will not get an oppo later on ...This is a fiction..he is not flying for real !!

How can he presume that he will not get an opportunity later on?  Can he read the future?  If he had selflessly fulfilled his duties as a brother, he would not definitely got an opportunity, maybe even a better one but since he failed in it I only hope they show us some poetic justice in his failure at his job in the U.S. and his leading a miserable life even as his sister who was pushed in this unsuitable marriage ends up having a very successful professional and personal life.  I too know it is fiction which is why I want them to show the sharp contrast in the two siblings lives. Since Ankita was always good at heart and had the best interests of her sister-in-law I would like her to take up some job because their family ship is sinking and end up being more successful than her husband.  Ankur can then wallow in a lot of jealousy at the success of the two women in his life while he himself ends up a miserable failure. 

It is not easy to get a opportunity  again esp after u  were unable to  exercise the first given oppo...The Karma Theory does not always work ..Ankur has been shown as a Human being , an ordinary mortal ...That is the beauty of the character..He is not shown as a Mahan aathma ..had that been the case, Sandhya's  noble gesture would not have had the same impact ...This is not a parable but a commercial show



Edited by tanthya - 29 September 2011 at 12:49am

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