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Hate You; Hate You Not! (Page 2)

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Maz.



Third day since his return and she's been searching for her Kesar in him..and she can't seem to find that Kesar.. dead ends everywhere..no reasoning for his behavior, the one and only reason she can understand is that she was responsible to send him away to boarding. She's trying to figure out what's on his mind, and he even gives some hints when he says shes probably not the Gulaal he knew...but how is Gulaal to interpret that?..she's been acting the same way she would to her Kesar 10 yrs back.. make his favorite food, pick out clothes, wanting to eat her meals with him..and on the other hand he hasn't showed much signs where she can recognize the Kesar she knew..

^^ Word Maz! We did say the same thing in essence! Third day running and despite all his signs of change, she is striving to dig out 'her' Kesar from beneath it all - but she meets only consistent dead ends. And Kesar - on the one hand is hell bent to proving she's not his Gulaal (to himself, and her now) and on the other hand is expecting her to read his mind! Asking him his question back - agar wo teri Gulaal hi nahi hai, agar tujhe uspar bharosa hi nahi hai - to ye umeed kaisi ke wo tujhe khud hi samjh jaaye!!! Ermm

And his outburst just seals that fact... I think this was one of the few moments where she bared her heart out to him...and the dialogue 'dus saal tune mujhe apne se dur rakha'...I think like someone else pointed out the other day...she just was familiar with the 12yr old Kesar...for ten years he shut her out..so technically she doesn't see herself at fault here. Of course again the same dialogue usage in the later scenes...amazingly done..and at each instance the meaning is profound.

Maz - FF from here to the scene where she comes to tidy his room and discovers the letter for herself under his pillow, which he grabs out of her hand before she can read. She tells him amicably to tell her what he wrote to her, if he wont let her read and he dismisses it with some fibbing about an update of his routine in recounting - and Gulaal, who by then has succeeded in uncovering at least partially, her true Kesar, dares to ask him - bohot narazz tha na mujhse? and he answers her back with this same line - dus saal tak tune muje khud se dur rakha... 

In an odd way, he's not really shifting the blame to her onus - but saying what is fact. He may have been the 'decision maker' about maintaining this strict distance, but it is she - intentionally or not - who has compelled him into such a dire means. And FF still more to the finale confession, where he tells her the same - how he doesn't want to go away, but she is making him go! She may retort back with a -jaise mujhse puch kar faisla liya tha! - but they both know by then, what he's implying! Yet another time that the CVs link up past nuances with future ones! 

Brilliant reactions by Kesar to her words..he's tearing up inside...oh how he would just want to turn around and bury these doubts in his mind..but he can't and has to walk away..leaving her broken and without answers...ahhh the angst..

Alright I should stop rambling ..lol... looking forward to your write up JZ..BTW wonderful quote! 

^^ thank you Maz - for sticking around and 'actively' contributing! Hug

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 6:41pm | IP Logged
Caps updated in the first post. Sorry for the delay :/...was feeling a bit unwell in the evening. 

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by JZephyr

So technically, this is the first 'candid' confrontation between GK - with therefore, a to and fro volley of some very candid questions - and no answers really, but rhetoric replies. True...this was technically their first proper confrontation post-leap...and while their confrontation scenes are usually my fav. kindLOL...this one ended up making me feel quite bad for Galool mainly :(


 Anyway - if she can be typical with doodh, Kesar too doesn't quit making a habit of glare hexes. Haha mental hexes...love you you put thatLOL

Nahate waqt apni patti bheegne to ni di na? - Being Galool, she tries again, oh so in vain! LOL Kesar fails at pulling off an X-Men stunt in throwing her out of the room by the sheer force of his glare; and wisely goes back to his other never failing trick, the cold silent treatment. LMAOOO@ the X-men stunt force glareROFL

Gulaal 1; Kesar 0 - encouraged by her score, she still goes on *face palm* - Wo main ye kehne aayi thi ke tu aaj kahin mat jana... bas ghar baith kar aarama karna - *more face palm, added head desk* - Gullu's Galool rule to counter 'ignore' treatment: patronize the enemy LOL LOL dono ek se badhkar ek hainLOL

Ye tu kya karaha hai Kesar? (see! it works!) Kahin jaa raha hai? - Kesar scores! And pumped up, he passes buttoning up to merely take pointed strides across the room - pretending she is transparent, and he is deaf - and begins to fix his hair. LOLLOLLOLLOL But josh ki overdose results in scraping the injury, and inevitable expression of being stung - however momentary. 

I love the next few seconds, as Gulaal rushes to him, and he slaps off her hand, literally. Ouch Ouch She's testing him with her patience, and he's testing her back for her tolerance. Let's not even ignore the dialog preceding this - meri baat maan aur thoda aaram karle - if there was ever a chance of him resting, there it goes down the drain. How in character for Gulaal to cajole him with that preamble of 'meri baat maan' - and yet, one wants to shake her up and ask her, was she sleep walking the last two days? Didn't she see this new avatar? She saw it yet she didn't see it...cuz she doesn't WANT to see itLOL...she's in limbo, poor thing.


And yes - mera Kesar gets Kesar talking at last. She's hit a nerve there, intentional, or not - and it stings me more than the scraping of his injury seconds ago, so he answers back in more riddles. I like, again, the mix of tone in Kesar's reply. He's giving her some twisted and cold answers - but answers, wherein lie the question he wants to ask her. THE question. So he admits he has changed, to put forth the argument that she too may have changed under circumstances. Maybe she too, isn't the Gulaal he knew... His tone isn't frigid here, its not sarcastic, its a mix of confronting and seeking. He might be officially answering her question about his change - but really, he's only asking her to give him answers - to clear away his doubts. The last statement is almost like an unassuming bait for her - he tells her she may not be the same Gulaal, like he hopes for her to jump at that and refute it. Tell him she is the same. Make him believe she is the same - he's really testing the waters, and the sarcasm is missing, because however indirect his speech is, it hides underneath it, the tormenting question of a decade. And when she expresses her anguish at this change in him, her Kesar, he cannot but turn the question back at her, even if in rhetoric! BingoClapClap...you've described this moment perfectly...the dialogues were genius...there again we see Kesar's constant need to ask her even in his own twisted roundabout way...almost as if he can't help himself and she gave him an opening...it got to him, hit a nerve like you said...so in his own way he tells her...'yeah maybe I've changed...but maybe so have you...and maybe for the same reasons...right?'...there's a questioning tone at the end that isn't really expressed overtly and Gulaal isn't perceptive enough to see it either cuz she can't fathom what he knows and what's making him say all this.


If she isn't his Gulaal, why does he expect her to understand his turmoil - that in an unspoken manner! How does he expect her to read his mind - when she hasn't known one first thing about him in a decade - when he, who has heard update from her, is in such dilemma over the true identity of his Gulaal. The 'akela kyun nahi chod deti' is more figurative than literal. In that second, he's venting out on why he can't rid of this dual existence of her person inside his head - where for good or bad, he can't stop thinking about her. For a decade plus, she has invaded his system - and it has bothered him to no end - her persistent presence in his system is the root of his dilemma. He hates her, but he hates her not! It reminds me of the later to come classic pareshani scene - where he tells her how he can't get her out of his mind!I agree...well said.




xx
JZee

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
Firstly, the title of the post reminds me of a song - "I hate u like I love you"-(lyrics only not da picturisation)LOL. I loved the title of the videoSmile. Okay about this scene, this is the first time dat Gulaal expresses her disappointment at his behaviour which she earlier always chose to put aside. The way she enters the room, it shows u that she is measuring her steps 'coz she doesn't knw how Kesar is gonna react and plus da death glare...her spirits are so dampened


den she starts with her, "tujhe kahin jaane ki zaroorat nahi..., meri baat maan" talks which irritates Kesar to the limit. And he rebukes her. Then, the touch me not moment and Gulaal just cannot hold any longer and say that he is not the Kesar she knew and Kesar telling her the same thing-Just loved NB's xpressions here(he just improved leaps and bounds with every episode and in the end he completely became Kesar)- it was not plain taunting but it had his own turmoils and questions in it.Jzee, u completelt hit the nail on its head wen u said dat Kesar becomes frustrated after Gulaal says that she doesn't understand him- on one hand he says dat she's not the Gulaal he knew but expects her to understand his turmoils as her Gulaal wud. I love Cvs how they use mirror in this story- what a paradox to another mirror scene where he tells Gulaal that he could do nething for her smile and here he's ready to do nething to hurt her. Then, comes one of the brilliant dialogue frm Gulaal- "Dus saal tune apne aap ko mujhse door rakha toh maine apne aap ko baandh liya"- comes to the line which Kesar said much later in da story- "Sab ke beech main bhi akeli rehna chahti hai"- She can only share her pains, miseries and turmoils with Kesar and nobody else though they hav technically been with her for a longer time-dats the bonding- as it is same wid Kesar.
I just loved MP and NB here. Gulaal utterly broken at her behaviour and saying it aloud. It somewhere hits something in Kesar

And this bit- where he just had to leave otherwise the cold facade wud have collapsed. Just look at the pain portrayed by MP and NB as Gulaal and Kesar. The pain has been self imposed by Kesar. Brilliantly shot.
PS: Nur your caps are lovely! I keep them as my wallpaper and also change the wallpaper in the Computer Lab system alloted to me during labs in college- ahhh just can't stop myselfWink


Edited by prachurya - 17 September 2011 at 2:39am

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
 And Kesar - on the one hand is hell bent to proving she's not his Gulaal (to himself, and her now) and on the other hand is expecting her to read his mind! Asking him his question back - agar wo teri Gulaal hi nahi hai, agar tujhe uspar bharosa hi nahi hai - to ye umeed kaisi ke wo tujhe khud hi samjh jaaye!!! Ermm     So true..the same questions can be directed at him..you have summed it up perfectly well in your main post! Clap


Maz - FF from here to the scene where she comes to tidy his room and discovers the letter for herself under his pillow, which he grabs out of her hand before she can read. She tells him amicably to tell her what he wrote to her, if he wont let her read and he dismisses it with some fibbing about an update of his routine in recounting - and Gulaal, who by then has succeeded in uncovering at least partially, her true Kesar, dares to ask him - bohot narazz tha na mujhse? and he answers her back with this same line - dus saal tak tune muje khud se dur rakha... 

In an odd way, he's not really shifting the blame to her onus - but saying what is fact. He may have been the 'decision maker' about maintaining this strict distance, but it is she - intentionally or not - who has compelled him into such a dire means. And FF still more to the finale confession, where he tells her the same - how he doesn't want to go away, but she is making him go! She may retort back with a -jaise mujhse puch kar faisla liya tha! - but they both know by then, what he's implying! Yet another time that the CVs link up past nuances with future ones! 

^Oh yea I agree...'jaise mujhse puch kar faisla liya'..is something he could have said as well, she didn't ask him if he wished to go to boarding ..correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only after she proposes to send him to hostel does he learn of the truth of Vasant's murder right?..so yea she did want to keep him away from her, we know her intentions were good, but to him it's a stab in the heart.

^^ thank you Maz - for sticking around and 'actively' contributing! Hug Hey :D I enjoy reading all posts by you guys. I never had the chance to discuss these scenes with anybody, and when I was watching on my own, it was in quite a hurry.. all the excitement in wanting to know what happens nextLOL so there was no time to patiently analyze the scenes like now.





Great caps Nur! Star I liked that bit of Kesar in the kitchen as well...somewhat a parallel to how Gulaal is distracted by Talli, here Paanbaa comes to him..and that scene of PB and him was interesting...He is saying he still loves eating leftover rotis and wants to eat her food...it's as if after hearing Gulaal say how much he is not her Kesar, here he is trying to be that young Kesar again at least in front of his mom.



Edited by Maz. - 16 September 2011 at 11:37pm

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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 12:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by nureat01

Thank you Nur Hug I hope you're feeling better - you be resting well over the weekend! 

-------------------

*Edit:

Batch 1:

The death glare that Kesar thought would be good enough to get Gulaal to leaveLOL

ROFL Yeh, I felt bad for Gullu, but Kesar is classic boy. Every boy tends to think at one point or the other, that he is Superman, to Kesar kya kam hai LOL 

It does dim her forced happy smile just a tad bit...poor Galool :((

Yeh - but she's also adat se majbur yaar! Firse doodh le aayi *facepalm* and then she's telling him to do everything cause she's saying it after he's spent 2 days making a point countering it - wo to frustrate hogaya hi at how slow she is ROFL But on a serious note - this scene does bring out Gulaal's thought process, in being dismissing of Kesar's attitude. She's really willing and pushing herself to believe its only in the passing. Well it is, but the passing will be longer than usual! 

I find it interesting, that at this point, in this confrontation - Gulaal is talking straight up and candid, while Kesar is talking the convoluted Galool tongue. You know the 'ghuma firaa ke' style, which he points out in the final confession! And how simple is the reason - at this point, Gulaal is frank and honest with her heart. She isn't in the mode of not being honest with herself yet - whatever she doesn't understand, is not what she doesn't want to see, but what she truly cannot comprehend at this juncture - so she talks plain and straight. 

Kesar on the other hand is dealing with his big secret against her - one that he cannot put aside, and one that he cannot seem to bring up either! So his talks are confusing, because he's in the battle with the heart stage for now - the moment he settles his inner demons, is when he begins to sound crystal clear, and then Gulaal takes her cue to duck for the next eon! D'oh


So Kesar moves from silent treatment to 'don't you dare touch me' modeLOL  <-- oh this was so mean! I know for a while after this he gets FB's of the later seconds, where he grips her like that and then pushes her away, but I thought this was maybe even a tinge worse! All these early scenes always make me think Kesar did deserve some of the crap Gulaal dished out at him later LOL and her disbelief of his 'love' for a while was so in order! 


Look at his face here! Reminds me of that smile and anger scene right after the menu fight for Kulli engagement, when Gulaal takes him to the mirror to show him how he looks when he's angry - yahan bhi dekho LOL tell him to look at mirror - itna frowning causes early wrinkles Kesuda, haven't you attended any bimbette lessons in the countless other TV shows?! 


Gulaal is finally hurt and upset enough to directly ask him, 'lagta hai tu mera Kesar hai hi nahin'


And he's still resisting, but look at the slight change in his expression - he's actually 'looking' at her, and this is not even a glare hex! 


And his frustration finally boils over too <--- I'm telling you, this is just another version of his reaction to her 'threat' of staying away LOL And of course, someone tell Gulaal preaching around this Kesar is near fatal! Stern Smile 




And then he kinda flings her away...I liked how this bit was shot in a slightly slowed down motion

^^ The FB of which will haunt him for quite a while! Interestingly, Gulaal is wearing the same clothes which she wears later for the actual pondside confrontation, which is also the next time he is actually manhandling her right? Oh wait - there is the odhni burning scene just before it too... 




Gulaal still can't believe he's treating her like this..."Nahin hai tu mera Kesar"


I love the dialogues in this bit and the way it was shot speaks for itself...you can see Gulaal's pain and then Kesar's pain and his turmoil simultaneously..."Dus saal tune apne aap ko mujhse door rakha...aur maine bhi apne aap ko baandh liya"

Like you said Nur - excellent angle of shooting this bit, where we can see both faces, and the similarity as well as distinction in their expressions. Gulaal really pours her heart out at this point, like count few other times - its a rare instance of occurance in this vintage Gulaal's demeanor - but Kesar's extent of grudging really shakes her up here! And him - resulting in the imli scene to come later Blushing [feels tempted to maaro the very excellent punchline from the show that must not be named ROFL ]


And the final shot before Kesar can afford no longer to be in the same room, lest she uncovers her Kesar! 




This bit makes me so sad for Gulaal - specially as she wipes away the tears and pulls a straight face for Talli Disapprove As much as Talli makes me hit my head into walls, and as ineffective as she truly is in reaching out to both Gulaal and Kesar's misery - her loyalty for Gulaal always scores her a point! Although, it doesn't keep me from rolling eyes when Gulaal tells her wo sunta nahi hai to rona to ayega na... and madam oh so intelligent (not) replies haan, aaj kal to wo MERI bhi nahin sunta! Bolo! Kaisi misled fundo mein believe karti hai ye bandi LOL 


----

I actually uploaded this bit in the next clip, with the imli scene - so lets discuss it there? 

This is a small bit later on in the epi where Kesar is in the kitchen by himself...he appears to be searching for something in the pots but you can tell that he's basically fumbling around not really knowing what he's doing and Gulaal's words are ringing in his ears..."kis baat ki sazaa de raha hai mujhe?"




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VJ-LNMDJMaz.AreYaar

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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 12:11am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Maz.



^Oh yea I agree...'jaise mujhse puch kar faisla liya'..is something he could have said as well, she didn't ask him if he wished to go to boarding ..correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only after she proposes to send him to hostel does he learn of the truth of Vasant's murder right?..so yea she did want to keep him away from her, we know her intentions were good, but to him it's a stab in the heart.

Okay, so I haven't watched all those episodes in order, someone who has need to clarify, but I think the entire boarding idea was MB's. First he moves Kesar out of Gulaal's room, and then with Kesar getting wilder at his school (post learning Dushy truth) and especially when he throws a vase at Dushy in front of MB and Gulaal - the whole boarding deal gets final. I technically think Gulaal could just have been in half minds about sending him away - but MB is adamant... maybe Nur or someone else can come correct the facts if I got them wrong. 

Like you, I never got to be into the show, live and such, until much later - sometime in June. So I've watched most stuff all by myself... not to mention out of order Ouch It might be the only regret I have, not having watched the show through its run, and having so little time to root for it while it was on air! 






Great caps Nur! Star I liked that bit of Kesar in the kitchen as well...somewhat a parallel to how Gulaal is distracted by Talli, here Paanbaa comes to him..and that scene of PB and him was interesting...He is saying he still loves eating leftover rotis and wants to eat her food...it's as if after hearing Gulaal say how much he is not her Kesar, here he is trying to be that young Kesar again at least in front of his mom.

^^ Like I said to Nur's caps, we'll do this with the imli scene on Monday? I thought it was interesting enough to be watched too - even if its not ideally GK - but the confrontation got so long a clip, so I clubbed that with the next. 

[/QUOTE]

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Posted: 17 September 2011 at 1:40am | IP Logged
If my memory serves me right, this was the EPIC scene which caught me spell-bound, and I had to become a die-hard phan, as we say... Imagine this being the scene you watch, and you can't get all the dynamics but are intrigued enough to watch more... n more.. n then you are just so caught up with it, that several months and many many episodes later, you still have that spell over you... ROFL Yar, Gulaal waalon ne Hogwarts mein special lessons liye the on telly love spells... or something... chorry for the PJ...Blushing

Back to my intro scene to this epic... so, yes, after watching n re-watching the scenes after Neil as Kesar came back... IMO, Kesar was distant yet curious enough to ask her about her feelings the first day... he so wants to hurt her, yet he can't not ask if she missed him or not... gradually going on to show his other side, where he is still talking yet to her... like in the milk toss scene... bhale hi gussa ho.. yet he can't just ignore her...

The "tu to hamesha" scene was instrumental in showing us, and Kesar a different light to his relationship with Gulaal. His adoring gaze, his angry (almost) admission in front of all, that she is HIS wife... the open concern and love in her eyes, while tending to him... show him the many ways in which Gulaal has hold over him, and he is bound to her... I believe that this just drives him further in his rudeness quotient... he feels more instigated to rebel further, and break free from her shakles... he becomes this rude, hurting boy , which I think was the low point in his being sooo hurtful to his Gulaal, in his own way... 

Thankfully, he cannot not feel bad about this whole causing-his-gulaal-in-tears, and has to make it upto her by getting her infamous imlis... which I LOWED... but then I dnt have one scene which I didnt... ahhh.. how predictable... Disapprove

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