Balika Vadhu

What is justified and what is not? - Page 2

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sreevask thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
@ tinoo,

Perfect Analysis...looking forward to ur further posts as always ...
sreevask thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Every nothing is sweet, as long as there is love...
Pyar me kabhi kabhi...
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Further to my earlier post, I also think I judge jagya more harshly because of the way he rejected anandi's food. picking up bhajiya, jalebi, inspecting it with a look of contempt on his face, then throwing it back on the plate.
 
I judge gauri less harshly, because she just avoided the whole damn breakfast and left.  I would have judged her equally harshly if she had taken the parathas and slapped them on his face with contempt and then poured the dahi onto his head, and then said to him "yeh kya, coffee with dahi in the morning? tumhe jara bhi sense nahin hai?  does coffee mix with dahi you fool? πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜†. Then yes, I would judge gauri equally harshly.
 
 
 
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
In response to the broader issue -- I think that it can only be considered chauvanism when a man says to a woman "this is woman's work -- and you should do this work because you are a woman" and then further get angry about it if the woman does not do the "woman's work."
 
I honestly dont think that jagya is a chauvanist -- either with gauri or with anandi. He does not have a notion of something being "woman's work". 
 
Nor can a woman who refuses to cook or clean be considered a 'non-feminist'.  Feminism does not imply that women dont do household chores.
 
I think that feminism implies the fact that women should have a choice.
 
If after having that choice, they still choose to do 'traditional women's chores' then that is a personal decision.
 
I have friends who are well-qualified professionals.  Some of them have chosen to continue working after having kids and have made other child-care arrangements. Others have chosen to be stay at home moms and leave their jobs.   But all of them had a choice to do one or the other and none were compelled into doing anything they didnt want to do.
 
It cannot be said that those who continue to work outside the home are feminist and progressive, and those who stay at home are non-feminist and regressive. 
 
Yes, if women dont have a choice and the men of their homes force them into one or other mold, then it can be called chauvanism.
 
woman11 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Great points everyone, especially tinooπŸ‘. I absolutely love your analysis. Thanks for joining in the discussion. Lets hear from the men too. DJ, I guess you can chip in nowπŸ˜›
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Me again πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜† (sorry woman11 -- not one of the men you hoped for on this thread) --
 
I just remembered something -- I studied in Boston and in 2000-- and attended a seminar once of an Indian lady student at Harvard who was working on her Ph.D. in anthropology. Her name was Seeta Pai.
 
Anyway, her presentation was absolutely fascinating.
 
Her Ph.D. was on the Nair community of Kerala, women's rights and the role that education played in DIMINISHING women's rights. (!)
 
I dont remember everything clearly --
 
but she took seven families with seven generations of women in each set. [49 women in total]
 
What this means is that in each family there was a great-great-great grandma, a great great grandma, a great grandma, a grandma, a mother, a daughter and a grand-daughter.
 
(Since nair women marry early and have a really long life span this was possible, where the grand-daughter might be 10 and the eldest woman in the lineage might be 110 years )
 
She also took 1950 (or somewhere thereabouts) as the dividing line between the generations of women (meaning it would be that three of these women would be educated before 1950, and four of them had received education after 1950).
 
1950 is when the Indian government started compulsory schooling for girls etc. in Kerala.
 
Now what she found was something fabulous --
 
the three 'uneducated' generations in each of the families before 1950 were in a completely matriarchal society.  The men took the women's names;  after marriage the men moved into women's homes, the women had all the decision making power in the homes; the sons-in-laws had to give their money to their mother in law and the mother-in-law would decide how money was spent.
 
However, the four younger generations of the family who considered themselves 'educated' and had been to some format of school and college -- the education system overturned the power system in the households. Because the British western way was to put father's name, husband's name in the forms for school admissions, for other things etc!!  So the grandmother, mother, daughter, grand-daughter somehow all turned into a patriarchal society!! The remaining four generations all were takign their husband's names, moving into their husband's homes after marriage, they were giving their income to their husbands and father in law -- and the male Nair men would decide how money was spent!!
 
Her thesis was focused on the paradox of 'girls education' as defined by the west -- which says that education empowers women.
 
Here  instead of empowering women, in many cases worked as detrimental to an already existing power structure where women were at the top!! Instead of empowering girls, it was actually stripping them of their power.
 
The funny thing/irony  was that the 4 younger generations because of their 'modern' education as determined by a degree certificate/formal school all considered themselves highly progressive than the older three three generations.  They considered their three generations of women 'illiterate' and 'backward' -- so the matrilineal society had swung to a patriarchal system by virtue of the system of education implemented in Kerala.
 
Food for thought!!  [Apologies for not remembering all the details -- but this was just so fantastic) -- she completely blew the lid off the myth of education and feminism through her case study so I remember it vividly -- and the whole audience gave her a standing ovation!!
 
 
 
Mehek25 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This is truly a very interesting topic of discussion and i am sure one of its kind on IF. As to the question of shared responsibilities, in today's times when both husband and wife work to make ends meet or to give a good life to their children, I feel that duties and responsibilities should be shared by both the spouses. But alas very few realise this. Most males are still under the age-old belief that it is the woman's duty to look after the house whereas a man is only the bread-winner. Many advanced and educated men now-a-days do realise that they are also equally responsible in running a house and many even contribute towards household chores. but alas the numbers are not many. Society needs to change their mindset towards a woman's role and only then will there be harmony in a marriage.

Good topic and all the arguments have been superb. Enjoy such discussions and they are really needed. 
sreevask thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago


                 The means of earning in olden days was mainly through agriculture by physical strain involving muscular power ,also to protect their agri produce, landed properties,and the fights were common those again necessitated the prominence of men.

           Thus muscle based(patriarchal) society  was in force till the muslim invasion, after which requirement of men increased in the society to protect,and hence the importance for male child to female child as well as polygamy.
           
           Also as men were dying at very lesser age in wars,to look after the house management,matriarchal society evolved during this period as can be seen in the nair community example.women had to produce as many males as possible to save the society..

          This continued till the british invasion,after which in modern times,the means of earning from physical/muscular power had been shifted to mental ability(through education) which allowed women to participate in the development of society's economic & defense capabilities.

        This shift in the pre-requisites,made equal rights possible.The ages old traditions/customs,WILL definitely (they have to,there's no other go,no escape/excuse) change as & when women attain the strength using the available resources,as the fear of wars is over & every one wants development through peace.

        Thus the ultimate power as of today is economic power.Every women must try to achieve this.Then only preferences alter 4 better.


Edited by sreevask - 12 years ago
sreevask thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago



BTW,Dr. Seeta Pai, is presently Sesame Workshop's Director of International Research.

[ courtesy http://archive.sesameworkshop.org/aboutus/inside_press.php?contentId=19148749  ]
Edited by sreevask - 12 years ago
sreevask thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago



               Every stable society(Organization)has FOUR KINDS OF STRENGTHS, which are        the Collective strengths of Individual members' strengths - viz,


  1. KNOWLEDGE(Through Education,symbolized as SARASWATHI,basis for BRAHMIN enabling broader vision)      
  2. DEFENSE (Through Physical & mental strength symbolized as GAURI,basis for KSHATRIYA enabling self protection) 
  3. ECONOMICAL (Through earning men & material symbolized as LAKSHMI,basis for VAISHYA enabling Interpersonal skills) vishaya means mundane transactions
  4. SERVICE IT CAN OFFER (Through optimal utilization of the above resources in achieving life's goals,symbolized as POOSHAN/PURUSHA,the human being(sadhaka) , basis for SHUDRA)  

           And men & women were trained based on their capabilities(Talents) (NEVER based on THEIR BIRTH) to cater these strengths during vedic age as per the vision of rishis which later on resulted in varnas/castes, as the training was limited to families.As such the course of the system was deviated from the intended path,misused,abused & thus resulted as a weakness to the society due to division of society members ..instead of strength by integrated approach by members for the common cause.

           Kehne ka matlab yeh hai ki there were no disparities between men & women,higher or lower in vedic age(Gargi,Maitreyi,ghosha & lopamudra are women rishis adept in vedic sciences,Arundhati,wife of vasista & sister of narada  was born in a family of humble back ground)

           Changing times changed(mutilated) the definitions due to rise of selfishness & divided the society..How ever problems will always unite people as can  be seen in the Egypt revolution sparkled by the well known  Asmaa Mahfouz  a woman again!
As far as the distribution of chores is concerned it is now a must  for all the parents to train their children with mindset of equality so that they live with their partners happily.After all, it is the real asset that they can transfer that 'd be useful throughout their life.There's a need to lay stress on this important ancestral property.

I don't believe in chauvinism  stuff as we really don't find time to entertain n carry the emotional crap so long..DO ALL U CAN n LEAVE ALL U CAN'T..NO USE IN WASTING TIME n ENERGY IN BLAMIMG/RESPOND TO IT..INSTEAD USE THE TIME n ENERGY TO ACQUIRE STRENGTHS,n LEAVE THE REST.BECAUSE HAPPINESS DEPENDS ON OUR MIND SET RATHER THAN THE EXTERNAL FACTORS

As far as Jagat n Gouri are concerned,  we can observe that J has to follow Gouri as Gouri has acquired these strengths  by her self effort, which Anandi is lacking...
Edited by sreevask - 12 years ago