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Do you believe there is a God ? (Page 13)

souro Moderator
souro
souro

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Posted: 18 September 2011 at 3:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by blue-ice

Originally posted by souro

If any forefather of yours or mine or anyone's for that matter stole something, the stolen object should be restored to the rightful owner if possible. I don't understand why someone would want to enjoy stolen goods and even if they want to I don't understand how we can say it's the just thing to do.
Yes and in a civilised society there is a certain way in which things are done...we have the courts of law to decide the rightful owner of a disputed property...we don't go about bringing down religious structures at our own will...that doesn't make us any better than the moguls who have been accused of tearing down the temples...for crying out loud...

And one should wait for eternity for the court to give it's verdict?

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 18 September 2011 at 6:11am | IP Logged
Hello Google ji.
Often certain atttibutes are associated with God eventhough He is beyond them. Some Christians list jealousy as one of the attributes of God.Wish they could correct this mistake as jealousy is a negative quality. (Exodus 20, 4-5)
If God is omnipotent what is there to be jealous about and also since God is omnipresent is there anyone else?
Anyway there have been some attempts to explain it by some quarters.


Rehanism IF-Dazzler
Rehanism
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Joined: 07 August 2010
Posts: 3492

Posted: 18 September 2011 at 10:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by souro

Originally posted by blue-ice

Originally posted by souro

If any forefather of yours or mine or anyone's for that matter stole something, the stolen object should be restored to the rightful owner if possible. I don't understand why someone would want to enjoy stolen goods and even if they want to I don't understand how we can say it's the just thing to do.
Yes and in a civilised society there is a certain way in which things are done...we have the courts of law to decide the rightful owner of a disputed property...we don't go about bringing down religious structures at our own will...that doesn't make us any better than the moguls who have been accused of tearing down the temples...for crying out loud...

And one should wait for eternity for the court to give it's verdict?

Isn't that better than plunging the entire nation into widespread riots and culpable genocides of thousands?? And what restoration are you speaking about? Even before the Islamic invaders several Vaishnavites and Shaivites persecuted each other's faith, threw away idols of the rival faith and installed the idols of their own Ishta Devas. Should their descendants and fellow believers too start counting those incidents and demolish those temples and restore their original deities by force?

The Islamists brought about a wave of violence against Indians and demolished several temples and monasteries to enforce their faith. But how are we better than them if we repeat the same thing? Why do we promise ourselves a secular and democratic constitution and a rule of law if we are to follow the footsteps of the medieval imperialists and barbarians? Few pages back a girl claimed that Taj Mahal and Red Fort was built upon certain Hindu temples. Suppose the claim is found true - what do you suggest; we should demolish the Taj and the Red Fort and built Shiva temples?? Today Hindu fanatics demolish Muslim shrines, tomorrow Islamic fanatics will destroy Hindu shrines and may be other religious extremists will join the fray too and this series will end only in the country's complete destruction.

Personally I never understood how can a place, which became the cause for the slaughter of over 2000 innocent lives, remain holy or fit for any religion - irrespective of whichever mythical character was supposedly born there.

The following 4 member(s) liked the above post:

sub_rosaRapierAutumn.glace-bleue

glace-bleue IF-Stunnerz
glace-bleue
glace-bleue

Joined: 04 March 2009
Posts: 46885

Posted: 18 September 2011 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by souro

Originally posted by blue-ice

Originally posted by souro

If any forefather of yours or mine or anyone's for that matter stole something, the stolen object should be restored to the rightful owner if possible. I don't understand why someone would want to enjoy stolen goods and even if they want to I don't understand how we can say it's the just thing to do.
Yes and in a civilised society there is a certain way in which things are done...we have the courts of law to decide the rightful owner of a disputed property...we don't go about bringing down religious structures at our own will...that doesn't make us any better than the moguls who have been accused of tearing down the temples...for crying out loud...

And one should wait for eternity for the court to give it's verdict?
Yes, because we are not Taliban...
Can you imagine what will happen if people start passing their own judgements according to their own perceptions...
I totally agree with Rehan's answer on this..
glace-bleue IF-Stunnerz
glace-bleue
glace-bleue

Joined: 04 March 2009
Posts: 46885

Posted: 18 September 2011 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Darklord_Rehan

Personally I never understood how can a place, which became the cause for the slaughter of over 2000 innocent lives, remain holy or fit for any religion - irrespective of whichever mythical character was supposedly born there.
 
Actually this is a very good point to ponder about...
 
 
souro Moderator
souro
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Posts: 14353

Posted: 18 September 2011 at 2:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Darklord_Rehan


Isn't that better than plunging the entire nation into widespread riots and culpable genocides of thousands??
Wasn't it the duty of the court to resolve the matter long back? Why did they wait for so long that drastic actions had to be taken? And once again I'll ask the same thing, if a rightful owner takes something back and the thief causes a riot because of that, why should the rightful owner be blamed for that?

And what restoration are you speaking about? Even before the Islamic invaders several Vaishnavites and Shaivites persecuted each other's faith, threw away idols of the rival faith and installed the idols of their own Ishta Devas. Should their descendants and fellow believers too start counting those incidents and demolish those temples and restore their original deities by force?
You are assuming that I'm talking about Islam and Hinduism over here. It's not restricted to any religion or any particular person. This should apply for everyone. If a Shaivite destroyed a Vishnu temple and installed a Shiva temple over there, I'll expect the ruler to restore the Vishnu temple once again to the Vaishnavites.

The Islamists brought about a wave of violence against Indians and demolished several temples and monasteries to enforce their faith. But how are we better than them if we repeat the same thing? Why do we promise ourselves a secular and democratic constitution and a rule of law if we are to follow the footsteps of the medieval imperialists and barbarians? Few pages back a girl claimed that Taj Mahal and Red Fort was built upon certain Hindu temples. Suppose the claim is found true - what do you suggest; we should demolish the Taj and the Red Fort and built Shiva temples?? Today Hindu fanatics demolish Muslim shrines, tomorrow Islamic fanatics will destroy Hindu shrines and may be other religious extremists will join the fray too and this series will end only in the country's complete destruction.
Restore the place with the rightful owners and let them decide what they want to do with it. That's my suggestion.
Yes, it will end up destroying our country because although over 80% are supposedly united by a common thread, half of them are coward and are content with maintaining the status quo. They are always afraid of what other people will say if we claim back our own possessions. And the rest 20% although supposed to be united takes full advantage of this attitude of the 80%. That never got us anywhere for the last 1000 years, and I don't see us getting anywhere in the near future either.

Personally I never understood how can a place, which became the cause for the slaughter of over 2000 innocent lives, remain holy or fit for any religion - irrespective of whichever mythical character was supposedly born there.


Edited by souro - 18 September 2011 at 3:02pm
souro Moderator
souro
souro

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Posted: 18 September 2011 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by blue-ice

Yes, because we are not Taliban...
Can you imagine what will happen if people start passing their own judgements according to their own perceptions...
I totally agree with Rehan's answer on this..

RTH - Nazi
BI - Taliban
Care to elaborate how you arrive at such associations. I'm sure it'll be pretty entertaining.

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23235

Posted: 18 September 2011 at 3:01pm | IP Logged
Its it logical to retroactively apply laws of today to a period of time when land, people and property belonged to the most powerful conquering king?

If so, honestly how far do we trace conquests and reconquests. We can't just choose arbitrary convenient points?

How do we determine who the rightful owner of something that existed centuries ago is? Migrations, conversions, inter-marriages, adoptions and even rapes within the conquerers and the conquered have taken place. Exactly how do we determine who the rightful owner is?

If we methodically moved back in time destroying everything generated out of conquered people/land and property, we would probably have to nuke the entire world and go back to living in caves.

Most people don't start claiming things back because they know that it is impossible to do so fairly without drawing an arbitrary line favoring one side over another, and the only way to claim back everything in the fullest sense means total destruction.

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