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do u believe in theory of karma? (Page 9)

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_Angie_

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_Angie_

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 9:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by CunningLinguist


the problem with god based morality is how do we know what god wants?, if we go by religious texts, then they permit some horrendous punishments for things like apostasy, homosexuality, heretics etc.. under certain religions, idoltry is completely immoral... are these objective moral values?, if God were to say that the killing of an apostate is the moral thing to do, would it make it right?, the divine command theory is ridiculous, morality loses all meaning, in the case of theism, morality simply becomes whatever God demands, however, if God forbids rape because it causes unnecessary harm/suffering/distress to the victim, then it's the reason that makes it morally wrong, God in this case is simply the messenger.
 

Several interpretations of the religious texts co exist. Each one need not be correct . It is also possible that at times we ourselves misinterpret the message. I think its best to think it over and accept something only if it appears right to us.


From the perspective of the universe, our lives may be pointless, meaningless and nothing we do will ultimately matter, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter now, whilst we're alive and living in society, our lives have meaning in the present, our actions definitely affect us and the people around us... morality is something that seems to evolve with time like everything else, we know better than to burn witches and homosexuals.

nature may be brutal, but as humans we can know that certain acts have certain effects, which are either desirable or undesirable.. it's the same ought/is problem, just because the universe maybe morally neutral, doesn't mean that's how we ought to live.
 
Nature has endowed us with an inbuilt conscience to guide us. It ought to be our best guide.

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_Angie_

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 9:34am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Consciousness

Originally posted by CunningLinguist

it's would appear that everything is determined ever since the first domino was pushed... i mean, isn't it the case that our nervous system makes a decision before we become concious of it?


These are highly complex, heavily debated topics in the real world and I hate to make cursory reviews out of them.

In a nut shell -

1. You have neurons which send signals, receive signals, process signals in the central nervous system
2. Neurons are either at rest (resting potential) or sending information (action potential)
3. An event (stimulus) causes the resting potential to move toward action potential
 
Studying physiology too ? Is there any subject that you're going to spare ?LOL
Most people believe that individual neurons are certainly affected by quantum mechanics  where as the affects of quantum mechanics on the whole of central nervous system are not completely clear.

What the means is that at the microscopic scale quantum randomness takes over, which in turn gives hope for free will and in-determinism (you don't know what happens till the time a conscious decision is made to observe and/or measure) where as at the macroscopic scale, things appear deterministic. In fact, according to the Quantum Brain Theory (QBT), brain observes reality once before the change and then once after the change and then fuses these two images together in order to make sense of them. How it observes reality before reality even changes is honestly beyond me right now but it does smack of determinism.

So, it seems, at the microscopic level, it is freewill and at the macroscopic level it is deterministic.
Scientific theories keep evolving as human curiosity evolves!  But how does quantum
randomness at the microscopic level translate into free will. Free will of whom?


K.Consciousness

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 10:10am | IP Logged
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Summer3

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 10:44am | IP Logged
I do believe in Karma but not  in an absolute model but rather in a relativistic model which tallies with Advaita and Buddhism. I don't think that there's some external accountant or Lawgiver (or Personal God) who's sitting in some extra-terrestrial realm and taking note of man's actions and gives him fruits accordingly.

That accountant, in my opinion, is man's own conscious Self or Brahman. The Karma bears fruits only when its sense is registered in the mind. No Karma is good or bad unless the mind considers it to be so. That is why, a stoic - or a person who does Karma without any fear or desire - is completely free from the effects of Karma as his Karma was done without any good or bad intention.

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K.Consciousness

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monar

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 6:30pm | IP Logged
Yes I do. I usually try to explore reasons behind everything, and whatever can't be reasoned I blame it to karma, its easy.

Edited by monar - 16 September 2011 at 9:27pm

return_to_hades

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 9:15pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by CunningLinguist


the problem with god based morality is how do we know what god wants?, if we go by religious texts, then they permit some horrendous punishments for things like apostasy, homosexuality, heretics etc.. under certain religions, idoltry is completely immoral... are these objective moral values?, if God were to say that the killing of an apostate is the moral thing to do, would it make it right?, the divine command theory is ridiculous, morality loses all meaning, in the case of theism, morality simply becomes whatever God demands, however, if God forbids rape because it causes unnecessary harm/suffering/distress to the victim, then it's the reason that makes it morally wrong, God in this case is simply the messenger.


That is why I don't subscribe to theistic or God based morality. I too prefer a non theistic perception of the universe. I believe there is a higher power that governs the universe. However, humanity and morality is grounded in the human conscience.

Originally posted by CunningLinguist

From the perspective of the universe, our lives may be pointless, meaningless and nothing we do will ultimately matter, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter now, whilst we're alive and living in society, our lives have meaning in the present, our actions definitely affect us and the people around us... morality is something that seems to evolve with time like everything else, we know better than to burn witches and homosexuals.

nature may be brutal, but as humans we can know that certain acts have certain effects, which are either desirable or undesirable.. it's the same ought/is problem, just because the universe maybe morally neutral, doesn't mean that's how we ought to live.


Would you then say objective morality does not exist or has not yet been discovered?

The universe and nature seem neutral at best.  They are not interested in punishing the sinner and rewarding the virtuous - everyone is equal in the laws of the universe.

Human morality is subjective. It is dependent on human experience, culture, society and the brain of the individual. That makes every moral decision or judgment - relative and not absolute right?

But the question still bugs me - if the universe and nature is neutral - why do I have morality? Why am I not constant like gravity or consistent like mathematics? How did the neutral forces of nature produces something that is subjective, inconsistent and driven by a complex mixture of emotions and reason?

I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you here.LOL We exist in society and we live the way we are, by our humanity. The contradiction between human nature and the nature of the universe in which we exist is what bugs me.

return_to_hades

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Posted: 16 September 2011 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by return_to_hades

[QUOTE=angie.4u]
If we go by the BG, the way to liberation is to stop the feeling of doership. If that can be practiced there would no longer be a sense of wrongdoer or a victim. that would dispense the need of any justice and perhaps karma. So it could all be in the mind.


But again my conundrum, does life have any meaning when we eliminate the value of doing, of action? Everything becomes square one.
[A] Looks like Everything becomes No-thing!

But then if that is how the universe is and liberation is being one with the universe - we have to devolve and strip ourselves of our human experience.
[A] Liberation doesnt look like a bright idea right now , does it? Ermm
 


There is this scene in Matrix where Cypher decides he no longer wants to fight the Matrix. He says
"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss"

As much as I am curious how deep the rabbit hole is, eventually I think to myself - I live on the surface not the rabbit hole. I taste food, I breathe the air, I enjoy the weather, my senses make me experience life and that is reality. It does not matter if the experience is real or programmed or an illusion. If the experience appears real, and I cry or laugh, it is real enough to live,

Ultimately, our search for truth, nirvana, liberation, God whatever is driven out of this life we live and experience. So what if the truth or liberation that we seek points that this life is a lie or an illusion or meaningless. How reliable is this truth or liberation if it is derived from  within a life that is allegedly an illusion or a lie?

If we go by the Matrix, there is another Matrix outside the Matrix and another Matrix outside that Matrix. It is just circles. The truth we all know is hundred years from now we both will be dead. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Where the ashes and dust come from and go? Who knows? All we know is dead. Between now and dead we can keep going from one matrix to another, and still be dead. Or we can sit down grab a piece of cake and enjoy the sweet delicious taste. Even if the cake is a lie, it is still sweet and delicious. And we can go on enjoying  the sweet, salty,delicious, tasty. fun, sad, happy, cold, hot, joyous, wrenching, painful, blissful, ecstatic, heartbreaking and all the experiences we can between now and dead.

Is liberation really all what it is made out to be?

I changed my signature but for you to enjoy


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