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return_to_hades

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 11:22am | IP Logged
Posting one more of his FB messages. Arwen mentioned some bits about this. I think it shows more about who he is as a father and where is coming from.

Originally posted by TommyJordan

Update:
This may come as a wild shock to some.. wait for it.. wait... (I need that guy who did the awesome HD youtube parody to do me an intro here. Where is he when I need him?)

I'm NOT a hero... of ANY kind... at all.
I'm not a super-dad, or awesome parent.

I'm a normal guy with reasonable a moral compass that I try very hard to keep pointed north. I make a LOT of mistakes. Did I say a LOT? I mean a WHOLE lot! Daily... sometimes hourly!

I'm extremely lucky to have a very strong wife who tolerates me and puts up with my mistakes, and who herself is strong enough that she can put me in my place with only a look.. no really.. you haven't seen her "I'm not kidding anymore" face... it's serious.
(For example I can apparently destroy a laptop and garnish world-wide attention in mere seconds, but I guarantee tomorrow morning my wife will say "Hey Chuck Norris. Make the freakin BED WILL YOU PLEASE" because I'll forget to.
(I have to admit the "Chuck Norris wears Tommy Jordan pajamas" comment will stay with me for the rest of my life. I want that on a bumper sticker!)

I'm lucky to have great kids (two of them) who look up to me despite all my mistakes.
I make bad parenting decisions all the time. We all do. Personally, I stand behind the decision I made earlier this week by posting the video. I don't find fault with it. If I had it to do again... let's see... I'd do it almost the same.

I'd not be smoking a cigarette. (That's a habit I promised my wife I'd quit as soon as I could afford to just go out and buy a Chantix prescription. She absolutely hates it and I'm getting mature enough to want to quit it for my own reasons as well.)

I'd not have used the word "ass" in my comment directed at my daughter. That was rude and a bad example of a parent using the "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy

I'd have worn my Silverbelly Stetson, not my Tilley hat if I'd known that image was going to follow me the rest of my life and I'd probably have cleaned my boots.

That's it. I meant all the rest of it. My wife is OK with it. My daughter is OK with it. My Mother is OK with it. I'm OK with it. We're the only ones that matter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those that feel the need to keep calling the police and CPS. lol

Apparently both the local police and the department of social services are OK with it. Yes they came. Of course they came. They received enough "Oh my god he's going to kill his daughter" comments that they had to. I knew that the moment it went viral.. it was too late and it was inevitable. I'm only surprised it took as long as it did to be honest.

The police by the way said "Kudos, Sir" and most of them made their kids watch it. I actually had a "thank you" from an entire detectives squad. And another police officer is using it in a positive manner in his presentation for the school system. How's about those apples? Didn't expect THAT when you called the cops did you?

The kind lady from Child Protective Services looked all through the house, the yard, and found ours to be a healthy home. She saw the unloaded guns in their rack with the magazines removed and stored separately and safely. Funny thing: The case officer asked to see "the gun"... "Umm, sir, may I see the actual..umm.. weapon used for the video?" She wasn't at all scared of me but I could tell she doesn't like guns as a general rule. To each their own though. She was comfortable that I was adhering to NC gun safety regulations for the protection of minors, and that's all she needed. But of course if you want to continue, I'm just going to leave a pot of coffee on for the next officers who come by. (Digress: Maybe I can get Krispy Kreme to sponsor me with lifetime donuts? Oh God that would be heaven. Dunkin? Crap... KK all the way...)

She asked if I minded if she interviewed my daughter privately but that I didn't have to agree. I let her meet in private and then she and I met for about an hour and a half. At the end of the day, no I'm not losing my kids, no one's in danger of being ripped from our home that I know of, and I actually got to spend some time with the nice lady and learn some cool parenting tips that I didn't know.. I use them on my 8 year old son, but not on my fifteen year old daughter.. but now I will! There were a few things I thought she was "too old" for, but after talking to the case worker, I feel like it's worth a shot to try them. Maybe I'll sell those secrets in my next book! (Seriously? You just got mad didn't you? I'm kidding. Besides, that would still only give me two pages of material- one parent tip page and one page on handgun selection techniques appropriate for different electronic destructive purposes.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to me being a normal guy... I digressed again.
You guys caught me on eight and a half minutes of ONE day in my life, probably the worst day in my life as a father. So, all in all, I consider the vast overwhelming show of support to be very very gratifying... that was me at my worst, not my best. If most of you found me OK as a Dad at that time, then I'm definitely OK the rest of the time. I was angry, hurt as hell, emotional as can possibly be, and stunned still. I'd taken an hour to compose myself, but apparently I should have waited longer.. and maybe used the .22 instead of the .45. (And since when does an 8 minute video EVER go viral? And maybe the next video I'll do will be auctioning the pistol I used.. that should buy some serious college tuition, but please understand that I will definitely use the profits to also purchase a replacement .45.)

I'd like to think that if a camera followed me around and filmed every moment of my life as a parent, most of you out there would still put me in the plus column. Truthfully most of you would probably be bored. I'm just ordinary. I was raised old fashioned, and I raise my kids the same way... the modern generational concepts be damned!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And OK, so THAT brings me to a topic I'll close with, though I had no intention of speaking on it when I started this rant. (Hey, aren't the 25 thousand of you who subscribed really regretting it now? I'm always this scatter brained. Makes you wonder how I formed enough sensible sentences to write a book doesn't it? Then again... maybe that accounts for the book sales being in the toilet...)

So, my last point:
I've received a LOT of comments (and by lot you have to understand there's literally MILLIONS of them. I'll likely never be able to read them all in my lifetime) pointing out that I was raised old fashioned apparently that that I needed to learn to be a parent in today's world.

Umm.. is there a polite way to call bull***t!?

The kids today ARE self entitled, spoiled, adverse to working, and basically have NO usable skills taught to them in schools. (Yes some of you out there excel. If you've graduated high school and at least pay some of your own bills, then I'm not talking to you. If you however are 25 and live with your parents because you're too lazy to get a job, then yes, I'm talking to you. Half of that is the parent's fault for thinking that the school system is supposed to raise their kids. The other half is a parent's fault for letting our school systems get to the utterly pathetic state they are in. It's your kid.. so no matter what it's ALWAYS your fault.. get it?

I'll give you a real example from the NC school system. My daughter just finished Honors Geometry in school. Halfway through the semester she asks me "Dad, can you help me type this math problem into your graphing calculator? I can't get the equation to come out right." I said "sure" and went over to help out. The problem was about calculating the tangent of a line, but I can't remember the specifics of it at the moment. I took a look at it and said "Honey, why don't you just do the problem manually... you know, on a piece of paper? It's pretty easy."

She honestly looked at me like I was a complete idiot! "You can't do it with a pencil and paper, Dad. Sheesh!"

I stared at her dumbfounded. "Honey, you DO know that tangential math has been around since the 1600s, right? Over 500 years. Long BEFORE graphing calculators existed..., right?"
Her response was "Well, we're not taught that. We're just taught how to enter it into a calculator and get the right answer."

Absolutely SURE she must be crazy, I checked... and she's right. HONORS mathematics at the high school level doesn't teach kids basic math principles. At all!!! If a modern honors geometry student had to calculate the distance of a line from the top of a flag pole to any point in space relative to the ground.. they have no idea how to do it. (How many of you just asked your kids to show you how to do that? Wait... how many more are Googling it right now? Stop. That's cheating.)

Further, almost every state now is taking "writing" out of schools. Kids are now being taught to print, and that's it. No need for actual writing because they all have computers. I'm NOT making this up! This is TRUE!! They learn the alphabetic characters... and nothing more. The age of eloquent thought borne by patient strokes of pen to paper... are gone like Rhett Butler's sex appeal.

So let me recap... you don't learn math, you don't learn to write actual words without the benefit of spell-check. You don't apparently learn grammar either because I've SEEN those text books and quizzes.. horrible.

Yet you want ME to stop raising MY child with old fashioned methods that actually made me fairly intelligent, capable of fending for myself, capable of managing money, holding a job, respecting my elders, etc?

So you can replace it with what? You want to teach kids it's OK to talk back to parents as long as they have the freedom to express themselves. You want to outlaw spankings. You've obviously made it OK for them to be stupid upon graduating high school. You've recently made it illegal for kids to work around any animal that can harm them under the age of 18, to include working in hay lofts, around dogs, or cats, horses, or cattle, etc. (Thanks for that law Obama.. idiot) You won't let them work in a restaurant that serves alcohol until 18 in most states. You won't let them work at ALL until 15 (It was 13 for me, but Dad lied and got me started when I was 12). When are they supposed to learn actual adult stuff exactly? When do they learn responsibility? No kid left behind? Pfft.. EVERY kid left behind! (Dang I'm mad now.. maybe I WILL run for President... no, wife already vetoed that one. I'd really love to though.. really, seriously!)

"Modern" parenting raises ill-prepared kids who can't do anything and have no skills because they're protected from even LEARNING them until 18 years old, at which time you want us parents to throw them out into the world, send them off to college, and expect them to be productive members of society? You can take your "modern" parenting, and shove it. Jeezus people. Half of you think chores at 15 are too much! God forbid we make them actually WORK too!

(packing my soapbox away and going to bed now)

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Arwen.

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hindu4lyf

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hindu4lyf

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 11:22am | IP Logged
I don't doubt that this girl is a spoilt kid or a child that doesn't appreciate what she has. But I am not going to point fingers at her because I am far from perfect. I've seen what 12/13 year olds post on their MSN status and FB status about their parents and it is not at all that different to what this girl said about her parents. (yes, including the profanities too)

I can't think of a single kid who hasn't at one point or another felt like 'ugh, my parents give me way too much to do'. Of course, the whole 'I feel like a slave' thing was over exaggerated but let's not forget she's a teenager. Our parents do a hell of a lot for us and fact is that often the only way we realise this is when we go through this ourselves. I didn't appreciate the way he was smoking in the vid. Keeping my personal views on smoking aside I just really don't see the point of talking about how bad a certain thing is and then indirectly promoting another bad issue at the same time. 

Now coming to the real issue at hand..
The girl said a few stupid things, there's no denying that. People often do stupid things in anger and maybe to a certain extent in her case it was more than just anger or at least it seemed like that anyway. One must never forget that no matter what these kids do, they are still quite fragile. I'm not sure how any father can be happy after making his kid suffer through cyber-bullying or any other form of bullying. God forbid that girl commits suicide due to all the embarrassment she's currently facing.

Watching the vid just reminded me of when I was sat in a lecture a few days ago where my corporate law lecturer who happens to be English was talking about contracts and then somehow mentioned how she paid her kid 10 bucks to walk his own dog. :O That's when I thought..damn she really needs to take a few tips from desi parents! :P

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hindu4lyf

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hindu4lyf

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 11:47am | IP Logged
@RTH: From his entire rant, the bit that caught my attention was this paragraph:

"So you can replace it with what? You want to teach kids it's OK to talk back to parents as long as they have the freedom to express themselves. You want to outlaw spankings. You've obviously made it OK for them to be stupid upon graduating high school. You've recently made it illegal for kids to work around any animal that can harm them under the age of 18, to include working in hay lofts, around dogs, or cats, horses, or cattle, etc. (Thanks for that law Obama.. idiot) You won't let them work in a restaurant that serves alcohol until 18 in most states. You won't let them work at ALL until 15 (It was 13 for me, but Dad lied and got me started when I was 12). When are they supposed to learn actual adult stuff exactly? When do they learn responsibility? No kid left behind? Pfft.. EVERY kid left behind! (Dang I'm mad now.. maybe I WILL run for President... no, wife already vetoed that one. I'd really love to though.. really, seriously!)"

Outlaw spankings? Ha! Try telling that to desi parentsLOL
Ok, jokes apart maybe that's what is needed if we don't want to end up with more stories of Baby P or of that little baby in India fighting for life right now. Fact is a lot of people come out with amazing grades at high school simply by memorising a text book. It's the sad truth and in that aspect I completely agree with him. I actually remember insisting on typing up my scientific and mathematical algebraic equations on Microsoft Word in Secondary School!

I have a friend studying Medicine at one of the best unis in USA and she currently works as a waitress in a Mexican fast food restaurant. That's something that you would rarely find in the UK. In fact it's practically impossible to even get a job until you're 16 in the UK because companies are so worried about the problems they'd face if they hired you and something happened to you. My 14 year old cousin recently asked her dad if she can get a paper round job. I'm sure you can imagine her dad's reaction. These days if you said you were letting your 14 year old daughter out at 6am every morning on her own cycling around the neighbourhood you'd be looked at as if you're a mad man. I genuinely believe that these days there is no such thing such as a "safe neighbourhood". I for one would not let my kid work at a place that sold alcohol until they were 18 and I also completely understand the reasoning behind anyone under the age of 15 not being allowed to work. Wanna call me over protective? Fine, but I completely disagree with a lot of the points this guy is trying to make.


Edited by hindu4lyf - 11 February 2012 at 11:49am

hindu4lyf

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hindu4lyf

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arwen.



@H4L - and what is uni memes? God i m so lost LOL


It's what you see on tumblr all the time.
Something like this:

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 21319

Posted: 11 February 2012 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
@Omnipotent_Taco - I don't think the issue is as grave as you are perceiving it. (It could be, but I don't think so).

Personally, I don't see it as the dad trying to show his daughter who is boss. I see it more as a father putting his foot down and instilling some respect, discipline and gratitude in his daughter.

I'm not sure how it is in other countries, but teenagers in the United States are very insolent, rude and misbehaved. It is almost like an epidemic of disrespectful and entitled behavior.  If in India takes discipline too far, it is the exact opposite here - absolutely no discipline in schools, at home or anywhere. Teenagers are sheltered, pampered and allowed to get away with anything. A huge part of this is the parent's fault, teenagers these days don't get enough attention as they ought too. At the same time parents are afraid to discipline. There is so much aura and hype around abusive parenting that people are afraid to discipline their kids. Despite that the behavior was not so bad. Kids eventually would mature up. Those who made it through college would go through a massive change. However, the misbehavior has heightened since the advent of social media. The problem is really high amidst girls who have gotten far more bitchier, cattier, mean and judgmental to everyone for no good reason. They spend hours on social media sites tearing down their parents, teachers and other students they don't like.

To give credit to both the students and parents cell phones and social media have created a whole new world. I don't think young teens are ready to responsibly use technology and parents are don't have guidelines on how to address technology. Back in the day teens would bitch about people, but it stayed within the privacy of a group. Today these comments are public with more far reaching consequences. Back in the day once a kid came home, they were cut out from their friends and it was family time. Today even after coming home, laptops and cellphones expose teens to a communication overload. Their cliques, their expectations, their bullies, their bullying, their social and peer pressures are with them 24/7. Back in the day disciplining was simpler. Today with the misbehavior being in cybersphere it is much harder for parents to find the right way to discipline. Should they address just their kid or the entire social group that is causing problems - because no single kid changes unless the group also is disciplined.

This kid bitched about her parents and since parents have direct authority the dad was in a place to do something. Some of this unchecked online ranting, posting mean messages about others, and getting a whole peer group tearing people down have actually have had disastrous consequences for other victims, including innocent teachers who were made targets of catty behavior. Facebook gives the Mean girls burn book a whole new level of meanness.

That is why I think many people view Tommy Jordan as a hero. Finally a parent who actually saw his daughter stray too far on Facebook and actually do something about it. Finally a parent who decided that even words on Facebook have consequences and you can't do just anything and everything you want because its 'online'. Finally a parent who was not afraid to discipline their kids and set an example for other parents that its ok to be harsh, to be firm and give some very tough love.

Was he 100% right. Of course not. His intent and even the initial part of the video was right. However, his violent method was wrong. There is also the possibility that his daughter is actually a very well behaved and good kid, who is not a misbehaved entitled kid and had a very bad day and lashed out. It could be that this father just overreacted way too far.

I'm against authoritarian parenting and iron fist discipline with no leeway. I've seen friends and others turn to lying and trickery because of overbearing parents. I've noticed how kids with over the top parents have a penchant for breaking rules, getting into trouble and find ways to embarrass or get back at their parents. If this is how Tommy Jordan disciplines his children all the time, if this is how he reacts when they misbehave, if his only solution is destroying things then definitely he is one of those parents pushing his kids away into a disastrous path. If he is one of those parents I can totally see why his daughter could end up being a runaway or some sort of rebel someday.

It is a possibility Tommy Jordan is one of those parents. However, based on things he has said and done since the video went up - I don't think this is what he does all the time. He seems to be a genuinely caring father. The video was meant for his daughter and her friends, it was not intended to go viral. He regrets the fact that it got so much publicity and is trying to shield his family from the media. He has had the cops and social services check on his family and is not bitter or resentful about it. He is merely a parent who is upset with the system in our country where children don't receive a decent education nor decent discipline.

His destructive method was definitely over the top. It can be scarring for a teenager. It can give the wrong lesson to teens on how to deal with problems. It can teach that violence and aggression and acceptable solutions. But again it depends on what type of parents they are rest of the time. Parents are humans too and make dozens of mistakes, sometimes humongous ones. They sometimes hit or punish their kids for no reason, they publicly embarrass them in front of everyone, they ruin their social lives and interfere in their friendships. All these things can really mess a kid up. If parents keep repeating these mistakes, kids will be messed up. However, if they later when things are said and done they can communicate, pass on the right message, explain themselves in a more positive light and come to agreements - then the kids will be fine.

In the end we all saw only 8 minutes of Tommy Jordans life. Its foolish of me to assume that I know enough about him,whether he is a good parent or if his kids will be fine by watching the video or his Facebook. But my perception of the situation is for the better rather than the worse.

@ Dia - There is nothing wrong in teenagers working to earn their keep and fund their expenses. It really instills the value for money, responsibility and discipline. Of course there have to be limitations. Many jobs are not safe or suitable for teens. Moreover, they have better priorities like education and peer socialization before they dedicate time to a job. Unfortunately, some of the laws surrounding teenage employment is ridiculous and sometimes teenagers are far too sheltered.

If I was in Chicago or even Milwaukee I'd think paper routes and many other jobs are risky. But there are several neighborhoods in my town and all across the state that I can vouch are safe. Similarly, I don't think there is anything wrong in a 16 year old hosting or waiting tables at Applebees or Fridays.

As for education in the USA. There are serious issues beyond not being able to graph tangents and equations. Many students cannot do simple math without calculator. They dont know how to write cursive or what long division is. Their reading, writing and comprehension skills are sub par. They lack most nations in math and science. With the 'No Child Left Behind' policies standards were dramatically lowered so they could push kids through the system. IMHO it is better to fail students and hold them back till they are more competent. It is not helping any kid by making school easier so everyone can pass.

@Souro - I guess we actually could have had a debate thread. LOL

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Arwen.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2782008

This ones for the Shad - the notorious member known to organize virtual weddings. Go find someone - I'm sure you can make a more creative wedding and even crazier divorce than anyone else on IF.

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Arwen.

Arwen.

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Posted: 11 February 2012 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
@H4L - Ah .. basically the stuff that has flooded my newsfeed LOLLOLLOL

Summer3

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Posted: 12 February 2012 at 8:51am | IP Logged

Whitney meant many things to me and I always loved the way her voice soared. But I guess none can escape drugs, taxes and death.
May her soul rest in peace.
Such a sad loss.

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Arwen.

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