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+* Krishna's clan *+ (Page 8)

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.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 at 5:15am | IP Logged
Not just Bhadra-Krishna's, but Mitravindrya-Krishna's as well.  Mitravindya's mother had the same relationship w/ Vasudeva.

One thing I noticed - all these cousin marriages were in SB, and only the Arjun-Subhadra one fell within MB.  And Nakula-Karenamati.  The latter was a case of the offspring of 2 sister's marrying, unless one considers Nakula as not Kunti's son for genetic purposes (which is the main, if not only, root of objection to such unions).  In case of Arjun-Subhadra, what restrictions were there?  Arjun was Kunti's son, no matter how one slices or dices it, while Subhadra was Vasudev's daughter, regardless of whether she was born to Devaki or Rohini.

Some of the other cousin marriage stories going around seemed invented - Abhimanyu-Vatsala and Parikshit-Madravati.  Parikshit's wife was Iravati, who was not connected to Matsya (while the claim about Madravati was that she was Uttar's daughter, which is impossible, since Uttar was a boy, and probably unmarried and childless.  In fact, the Virata dynasty was one of the ones that was completely wiped out in the war).

Incidentally, kshatriya dharam requires that there be 7(!) generations of separation b/w a husband and wife for such a marriage to be legal.  But the above cases seemed to be clear violations of that rule.

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IF-Stunnerz

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Posted: 05 July 2012 at 6:18am | IP Logged
Thanks for letting me know, Varaali and Vrish! Actually, this doubt came up in my family so that's why I was wondering. If Shri Krishna himself married his aunt's daughter, then he must have considered it the same kind of cousin marriage as his aunt's son marrying his sister. I was just told that eduru menarikam was looked down upon since when a woman leaves her natal home and her name changes to that of her husband's, it is unacceptable for her daughter to return to that home and take her mother's former surname.
 
@Vrish,
 
In the case of Arjun and Subhadra's marriage, there were no restriction. I gave them as an example to show what kind of cousin marriages are actually most acceptable, at least now in South India.
 
I don't know about Abhimanyu-Vatsala, but if the Vatsala you're talking about is Balram's daughter, she is known as Sesirekha in the South, and Abhimanyu-Sesirekha's love story is actually quite popular. I too don't know if it actually happened or not, since none of the major sources have it, but it brought fourth a lot of popular movies and dramas. I guess we'll never know the origins of such stories, not just Abhimanyu-Sesirekha but als Ram-Hanuman yudh, etc. People could have made them up or they could have actually happened and not been noted down.

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varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 05 July 2012 at 10:51pm | IP Logged
There seem to be two points under discussion here:

  1. Whether there were cousin marriages in ancient times
  2.  Whether, such marriages were in accordance with Manu Smriti
Two types of cousin marriages were prevalent as we have seen: 

Children of Brother- Sister  (whether son of brother marrying sister's daughter or vice versa) getting married seems to have been common. Examples : Arjuna-Subhadra, Krishna=- Bhadra, Krishna - Mitravindya, etc

However at no cost were the children of two brothers entered into wedlock. (I am not sure about children of sisters, though- are there any stray examples?)


However, Manu Smriti (MAnav Dharmashastra) does not approve of such marriages. (Chapter 11, verse 172, 173). There is a penance prescribed as a deterrent. 

While I know, that communities in Northern India, still follow this religiously, somehow, in South India this system has not only been followed, but flourished, till recently. Among some of the Keralite castes, which followed the Marumakatayam  (Matrilineal system of inheritance) this kind of cousin - alliances were more common than exception.


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.Vrish.

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
Does Manu's Smriti or any of the ancient or classical schools of Vedic Jurisprudence have any rules re: the number of generations of separation b/w 2 people for a marriage b/w them to be legal?

I read somewhere (in a Rajput wiki site) that kshatriyas have to have 7 generations of separation.  Have you seen that anywhere, and are there similar prescribed numbers for Brahmans, Vaisyas and Shudras?

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:42am | IP Logged
Is anything known about Rukmi after his defeat by Krishna, other than his daughter & grand-daughter supposedly marrying Pradhyumna & Anirudha, and him being rebuffed by both sides of the Kurukshetra war and ultimately killed by Balarama after a very hostile dice game?

varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Is anything known about Rukmi after his defeat by Krishna, other than his daughter & grand-daughter supposedly marrying Pradhyumna & Anirudha, and him being rebuffed by both sides of the Kurukshetra war and ultimately killed by Balarama after a very hostile dice game?

Why  'supposedly'?

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
Scratch that - I shouldn't have used 'supposedly'...

varaali

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varaali

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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
Ok FIne. Smile

But to the best of my knowledge nothing more is known about Rukmi, though in HV, he gets lot more dialogues  before Rukmini's swayamwar. 


Edited by varaali - 18 August 2012 at 10:20pm

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