Dwarkadheesh - Bhagwaan Shree Krishna
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varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posted: 27 December 2011 at 11:29pm | IP Logged
A belated response to one of your posts- There were neither idols nor idol worshippers of Krishna during his lifetime. The people would have worshipped either Shiva (as a lingam) or Vishnu. 

In fact Krishna himself worshipped an idol of Vishnu (in standing pose with Shankha Chakra, Gada  and Padma) . Just before the deluge at Dwaraka, Krishna handed over this precious idol to Uddahva and asked him to worship it the same way Krishna had done. Uddhava taking the idol with him proceed to Badari Ashram. Towards the end of his life, he entrusted the idol to Brihaspati and Vayu asking them to enshrine the idol in a suitable place. Guru and Vayu found a place in Kerala to be most suitable (a piece of land which had been ploughed out by Parashurama) and established the idol there. This is same idol which is  being worshipped in Guruvayoour till today.

Neither did Krishna give darshan of his divine form to all and sundry. Bhishma was probably aware of his inherent divinity, but revealed it publicly only on his death bed when he chanted the Vishnu Sahasranama in the presence of Krishna. To Arjuna (and thereby Sanjaya) he gave his Vishwaroop darshan. Akrura was one other person to whom Krishna actually revealed his Vishnu roop. Kunti recognized him as their saviour only after Parikshit was  resurrected. Sudama was a dear friend- a sakha - not a devotee.


Edited by varaali - 27 December 2011 at 11:41pm
.Vrish. Viewbie
.Vrish.
.Vrish.

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Posted: 27 December 2011 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
When Krishna was giving his discourse to Arjun, was Sanjaya hearing all that as well?  And how would Sanjaya get the Vishwaroopa vision if the only person Krishna was giving it to was Arjun?

But Akrura was one of the 3 conspirators who plotted to kill Satrajit, and who got the Syamantaka gem after Kritavarma declined to keep it.  So why would Krishna be favorably disposed towards him?

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varaali

varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posted: 28 December 2011 at 2:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

When Krishna was giving his discourse to Arjun, was Sanjaya hearing all that as well?  And how would Sanjaya get the Vishwaroopa vision if the only person Krishna was giving it to was Arjun?


Vrish,

Refer SLoka 74-78 of the 18th Chapter (Moksha Sanyasa Yoga) of Bhagavat Gita. The original Sanskrit and its translation, you can read it online. 

In the 74 sloka, Sanjaya says "Thus I have heard the wonderful dialogue b/w Vasudeva and Partha, causing my hair to stand on end"

In the 75 sloka he says "Through the grace of Vyasa have I heard the supreme and most profound yoga direct from krishna, the Lord of Yoga Himself declaring it

And especially in the 77th sloka he exclaims "And as often as I recall that most wondrous form of Hari, great is my astonishment, O king and I rejoice again and again .

Sanjaya concludes by saying " Yatra Yogeshwaro Krishno Yatro Partho Dhaurdhara , Tatra Shree Vijayo bhootir Dhruva neetir Matir mama." (Where ever there is Krishna, the Lord of Yoga, where there is Partha, the archer, there exist Prosperity, Victory, Happiness, Firm Governance, such indded is my conviction"


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.Vrish.

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.Vrish.
.Vrish.

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Posted: 28 December 2011 at 2:41am | IP Logged
But what was the point of Krishna giving him that, when on day 18, when the the last of the Kaurava warriors - Sudarshan, Shakuni, Ulooka were getting killed, Sanjaya went there to join the battle, but was quickly defeated & captured by Satyaki, and released only due to the intervention of Vyasa?  Krishna himself said that only a few are allowed that privilege, and I don't see how Sanjaya deserved it above anyone else.
varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posts: 2806

Posted: 28 December 2011 at 2:44am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.


But Akrura was one of the 3 conspirators who plotted to kill Satrajit, and who got the Syamantaka gem after Kritavarma declined to keep it.  So why would Krishna be favorably disposed towards him?

Akrura was blessed with the vision of the Divine forms of Krishna and Balarama when he was escorting them from Vrindavan to Mathura. (So it was before the Syamantaka Mani episode )This is described in great detail in the 39 chapter of the 10 Skanda. While performing his Sandha Vandana in the waters of Yamuna, Akrura saw Balarama as Ananta Sesha and Krishna as Vishnu reclining on his serpant, in full splendour with other Gods and Goddesses, Narada, Prahalada, the Sanakadi rishis, singing his glories.

Akrura overwhelmed at this sight, begins to pray- which is narrated in the next chapter- No 40.

While Akrura incited Shatadhanva to murder Satrajit, he took no part in the actual murder (Does this reduce the severity of his guilt?) In fact when Shatadhanva wanted to give the gem to Akrura for safekeeping, Akrura flatly refuses, praising Krishna in four slokas. Nevertheless Shathadhanva, left the mani in Akrura's possession

 Even after Akrura and Kritavarma fled Dwaraka on hearing the death of Shatadhanva, Krishna 
spoke gently to Akrura, and only wanted him to show the gem to the citizens of Dwaraka and especially Satyabhama. Krishna then allowed Akrura to retain the jewel but ensured that all gold received from it should go to Satyabhama or her sons.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 28 December 2011 at 2:50am | IP Logged
The conspiracy against Satrajit was done by all 3 - Akrura, Kritavarma and Satadhandva.  Satadhandva, after finding out that Krishna was after him, first tried to get refuge from Kritavarma, who refused to incur Krishna's wrath.  Same w/ Akrura - he too didn't want to incur Krishna's wrath, so Satadhandva gave him the gem hoping to save himself that way.

The last part of what you described is correct - Krishna had Akrura keep the gem, but give the gold to Satyabhama & her children.
varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

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Posts: 2806

Posted: 28 December 2011 at 3:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

But what was the point of Krishna giving him that, when on day 18, when the the last of the Kaurava warriors - Sudarshan, Shakuni, Ulooka were getting killed, Sanjaya went there to join the battle, but was quickly defeated & captured by Satyaki, and released only due to the intervention of Vyasa?  Krishna himself said that only a few are allowed that privilege, and I don't see how Sanjaya deserved it above anyone else.

I am not sure if we can discuss whether or not Sanjaya deserved the Vishwaroop darshan, but the fact it he got it. Maybe he just was at the right place at the right time. If Dritarashtra had chosen to accept Vyasa's offer of divine sight, he would have been the one to see the Vishwaroop and who could be less deserving than Dritarashtra? As Sanjaya himself ackowledges, it was Vyasa's grace that he got  to see the Divine form of Krishna.

BTW< i didn't know Sanjaya also took part in the battle. Who was commentating to Dritarashtra in his absence? 
..RamKiJanaki.. IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 28 December 2011 at 5:21am | IP Logged
The source that has Akrura getting divine revelation before Kans Vadh does not have Akrura conspiring against Satrajit. Both these stories are from two different sources, and that makes sense too because the divine revelation Akrur dedicated his entire life to Krishna and did not participate in many of the political intrigues later on, whereas the source that has Akrur doing evil things does not have him achieving divine revelation before Kans Vadh.

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