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Ramayan of Krittivas Ojha: a study *New updt pg 11

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Urmila11

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Urmila11

Joined: 11 December 2010

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Posted: 31 May 2011 at 5:17am | IP Logged

It's my pleasure to introduce the great poet Krittivas Ojha who translated the whole Ramayan (with UttarKand) in Bengali.

Here is some information from Wikipedia,

Krittivasi Ramayan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Akal-Bodhan, Rama's Durga Puja was first depicted in Krittivasi Ramayan

Krittivasi Ramayan (Bengali: ?????????? ???????) or Krittibasi Ramayan or Sri Ram Panchali, composed by 15th century Bengali poet Krittibas Ojha, is a translation of the Ramayana into Bengali, which represents the first translation of the Ramayana into any North Indian language other than Sanskrit. Written in the traditional Ramayan Panchali form of Middle Bengali Literature, the Krittivasi Ramayana is not just a rewording of the original Indian epic, but a vivid depiction of the society and culture of Bengal in the middle ages.

The text is also remembered for its exploration of the concept of Bhakti which would later contribute to the emergence of Vaishnavism in Gangetic Bengal and the surrounding regions.


Manuscripts

The total number of manuscripts (puthis) containing the Krittivasi Ramayan text numbers approximately 2,221.[1] Most of these contain only fragments of the text.

Extant manuscripts are presently stored in universities such as the University of Calcutta, Visva-Bharati University, Rabindra Bharati University, Jadavpur University, University of Burdwan, North Bengal University, in West Bengal. There are also puntis preserved in Silchar Normal School Library, Assam, Dhaka University and Jahangirnagar University, Bangladesh, the British Museum and School of Oriental and African Studies in the United Kingdom, and Bibliothque nationale de France in France.

Timeline of Krittivasi Ramayan

The original Krittivasi Ramayan is dated to the first half of the 15th century. In the next four centuries it underwent various changes at the hands of various puthi scribes. The current version of the epic was revised by Jaygopal Tarkalankar and was published in 1834. Later in the 20th century various editions were published based on the Jaygopal Tarkalankar version.

Bengal in Krittivasi Ramayan

Rama worshipping Durga, as part of the Durga Puja setup.

Krittivasi Ramayana is not only a translation, but contains picturesque descriptions of Bengali social life and its values.

Influence of Krittivasi Ramayan

The epic of Krittivas has had a profound impact on the literature of Bengal and the surrounding regions. Tulsidas, the 16th century Hindi Ramayana translator, was deeply moved by the theme of Bhakti just as Krittivas was. The story of Rama as depicted by Krittivas Ojha inspired many latter-day poets, including Michael Madhusudan Dutt and Rabindranath Tagore.

Biography of the poet

Krittivas Ojha (c 1381-1461)  medieval translator-poet, first to translate the Sanskrit ramayana, variously described as being born in the village of Phulia near Premtali in the district of Rajshahi or in the district of Nadia. His father, Banamali Ojha, and paternal grandfather, Murari Ojha, were both well-versed in the scriptures.

After completing his early education, Krttivas travelled to north Bengal at of the age 12 to study under the religious scholars of Varendra. He then proceeded to the court of the king of Gauda, hoping to become a royal pundit. There he recited various verses to the king. According to some scholars, the king of Gauda was Raja Ganesh (1415-18), according to others, he was Sultan Jalaluddin Mahmud Shah (1418-31). All agree, however, that the king of Gaud Gaureswarwas very pleased to hear the verses and honoured the poet with different kind of gifts. He then requested the poet to compose the Ramayana. Accordingly, Krttivas wrote the first Bangla Ramayana based on the Sanskrit Ramayana of Valmiki, in payar metre, a metrical system in which each line consists of fourteen letters or syllables.

Krttivas's Ramayana was first printed in five volumes from the serampore mission press in 1802-3. Subsequently, in 1830-34, under the editorship of jaygopal tarkalankar, a second edition was published in two volumes. Of all the editions of the Ramayana published so far, the first Serampore edition is considered to be the best.

Many other writers composed the Ramayana in Bangla, but failed to equal Krttivas's fame and popularity. The religious, social and cultural traditions of the Hindu community are specially based on the story of ramachandra. Bengali Hindus are therefore indebted to Krttivas for making this knowledge available to them through his Bangla translation of the Ramayana. [Wakil Ahmed]

 







Edited by Urmila11 - 13 July 2012 at 8:44pm

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Urmila11

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Posted: 31 May 2011 at 5:19am | IP Logged


Krittivas Ojha's Ramayan is a darling treasury of Bengali people. They worship it as their God, & love it as their literature! The language of Krittivas is too simple to understand, so all kind of people can realize it very easily! This Ramayan portrayed the Royal family of Ayodhya very lovingly; each bond of affection is carefully shown in it. It narrated elaborately many of the incidents which were either not told or very shortly told by Valmiki & other authors, for quick examples, the marriage of Aja (Dasharath's father) with Indumati, there sudden death & Dasharath's premature coronation; Dasharath's marriage with Kousalya, Kaikeyi & Sumitra, his friendship with Jatayu; Ram's friendship with Guhak (specially the background of friendship is very nice) etc. Krittivas used many sources other than Valmiki Ramayan to write his version, many Puranas & some of the foreign versions of Ramayan were frequently used. We will see the influence of different sources in next posts. This version is a beautiful combination of poetic flavor & Bhakti Rasa! Before starting discussion about the incidents, I like to introduce you with some of the excellent features of this Ramayan.

 

Devotion: This Ramayan is an archive of pure devotion to Lord Ram. Even in the battlefield of Lanka, almost all the demons worshipped Ram with beautiful prayers! Their Aaratis & Bhajans are too divine to melt any devotee's heart! Atikay, Taranisen (son of Vibishan), Birbahu (another son of Ravan) & even Ravan too, in his last battle, uttered lots of 'stuti' to Lord Ram! Hearing those prayers, Ram became moved so much that he disagreed to hurt his devotee! This is the most important feature of Krittivasi Ramayan. The dangerous battlefield was overwhelmed by this Bhakti Rasa again & again in this version! Readers always forget that it's that Great War between Ram & Ravan, their devotee soul starts to shade tears! Prof. Dineshchandra Sen (Professor of Bengali literature, University of Calcutta) wrote, "He withdraws the arrow which was ready to pierce a demon & starts weeping, when His devotee weeps!"  

 

Tragedy: Ramayan is a tragedy itself, & great poet Krittivas showed al the tragic scenes very touchingly. For example, death of Dasharath, grief of Bharat & Bharat's meeting with Ram at Chitrakut, Ram's pain after Sita's abduction, Ram's vilap at Shaktishel episode, Agnipariksha scene, Vanavas of Sita, Patal-prabesh etc are especially mentionable for the best presentation of tragedy.

 

Humor: Though Ramayan is a tragic epic, poet Krittivas presented some funny events too in his translation. For example, Ravan's failure to lift the Shiva's bow, Angad's message to Ravan before the war are really a 'lots of laugh'. When Ravan failed to lift the Shiv-Dhanu, he gazed at the heaven & searched for Indra. He wished Indra not to watch his miserable condition! Angad's meeting with Ravan is one of the precious chapters in Krittivasi Ramayan, I will definitely try to post it elaborately.




Edited by Urmila11 - 12 July 2011 at 3:10am

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Urmila11

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Urmila11

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Posted: 31 May 2011 at 5:20am | IP Logged


I listed some important events from this Ramayan:

 

1)      Krittivas changed the name pf Balkand & YuddhaKand. In this version, BalKand is named as "AadiKand" & YuddhaKand as "LankaKand".

2)      The wonderful story of king Harishchandra (the grandfather of king Sagar) is nicely & elaborately narrated in Krittivasi Ramayan. This story tells how king Harishchandra became helpless with the plan of sage Viswamitra; even the poor king had to sale not only his wife & child, but also himself finally!

3)      Marriage of Dasharath with Kousalya, Kaikeyi & Sumitra is elaborately narrated. According to this version, Kousalya & Sumitra's marriage with Dasharath was arranged by their parents, but Kaikeyi had to face swaymvar & she choose Dasharath.

4)      This version tells wonderfully how Dasharath became a friend of Jatayu. In an occation, Jatayu saved Dasharath's life & the king accepted him as friend.

5)      Birth of Lord Ganesh & the fact behind His elephant face is completely different here from that one in Vays's Mahabharat. Here Lord Shani is responsible for Ganesh's death, instead of Lord Shiva!

6)      When Kousalya & Kaikeyi shared the holy kheer with Sumitra, Kousalya told her, "Your son will accompany my son" & Kaikeyi told, "Your son will be a servant of my son", Sumitra agreed to those conditions & then she got the share.

7)      According to Lord Shiva's order, Parshuram gave Shiva's bow to king Janak & told him, "I want to marry your daughter Sita, but now I'm going for 'tapasya', so keep this bow, if anyone can lift this bow before I return, you may accept that person as your son-in-law".

8)      When Viswamitra pleaded to Dasharath for Ram, being overwhelmed with affection & fear, the king made a plan & sent Bharat-Shatrughna instead of Ram-Lakshman with sage! On the way, Viswamitra could recognize them & became furious on the king. As a result, the king had to send Ram-Lakshman finally!

9)      Guru Vasistha fixed such a holy moment for the quadruple marriage of RLBS & SUMS that would result never separation between husband & wife. But all the Gods became worried by this arrangement & plan fully made that moment over!

10)   In AranyaKand, when Lakshman left Sita alone in the cottage, he drew a line (Lakshman-rekha) to save her. (Tulsidasji didn't show this line in AranyaKand, he mentioned it later as Mandodari's dialogue to Ravan)

11)   Being insulted by Ravan, Vibhison met his elder brother Kuber at Kailas. Then both Kuber & Lord Shiva advised him to join Ram. Here Kuber is described as a friend (sakha) of Lord Shiva. 

12)   Vasmalochon, a demon of Ravan's court, had such a power that his one glance could burn anything! When Ram's battle crossed the bridge, Ravan sent Vasmalochon to kill all of them. But Ram destroyed him using the mirror-weapon (darpan-astra) which made mirrors on everyone's face! As a result, the demon saw his own image on their faces & died by the fire of his own eyes! (This story was an influence of European Myth & legend, there was a similar character named Balor who had the same power.)

13)   The meeting of Angad with Ravan. This part can make a reader laugh heartily. It expresses the sense of humor of the author. It's too long, will post later.

14)   Makaraksha, the son of Khar, came to the battlefield with a wonderful plan. He put many cows on his chariot. Ram & his Vanar army hesitated to hurt him in fear of killing the cows (go-hatya)! Ram used wind weapon (paban-astra) to remove the cows from his chariot & destroyed the demon.

 

15)       Vibhison had a son named Taranisen. He was a great devotee like his father, but after Makaraksha's death Ravan forced him to join the battlefield. His parting scene from his mother Sarama is very touching. In battlefield, Taranisen uttered a divine prayer to Ram, hearing which the Lord became affectionate to him, He told, " I can't hurt my devotee,--------I know there is no other way to escape Sita,-------but I can't tolerate my devotee's pain! My devotee is my all!" Then Taranisen thought that he will never achieve "mukti" if Ram disagreed to slay him. He changed his words & started to insult Ram, which was completely acting. After his death, Vibhison revealed that Taranisen was his son. Lord Ram broke down in grief. The whole incident is full of tears.

16)       The character of Birbahu is a new addition here. He was another son of Ravan, his mother's name was Chitrangada. He was a devotee too, made several prayers to Ram in battlefield. As a result Ram again wanted to stop the war but Birbahu followed Taranisen.

(Ravan too, in his final war with Ram, did the same! In fact his Aarati was longer in size & more emotional than the previous ones!)  

17)      The Shktishel episode. Shkti was the weapon of Ravan (not of Indrajit) which was given by his father-in-law Mayadanav & Ravan applied it after Indrajit's death (just like the Valmiki Ramayan). Here also, Susen is the doctor of Kiskindhya (not of Lanka) & he was in Ram's side as always.

18)       After Kalnemi vadh, Ravan became worried & forced Sun-God (SuryaDev) to rise earlier in the mid-night. Sun-God initially disagreed to do so as it's a violation of natural rules, but al last he had to agree fearfully. But Hanuman stopped his chariot & requested him not to do so. SuryaDev happily agreed but asked for a plan. Hanuman took him under his arms!

19)       The meeting of Hanuman with Bharat is slightly modified here. Firstly, Guru Vasistha made Hanuman awake. He scolded Bharat for hurting Hanuman without knowing his actual intention. Hanuman too, scolded Bharat! Secondly, Bharat put Hanuman with the mountain on his arrow & threw it to Lanka in order to save time.

20)       Hanuman had to kill several Gandharvas who prevented him to touch Gandhamadan. He made them alive again with the Mritsanjivani while went to keep Gandhamadan in its place.

21)       The Mahiravan-Ahiravan incident is far different from that shown in NDTV Ramayan. Here Mahiravan is another son of Ravan who born in patal-lok & lived there.  Here Ahiravan is son of Mahiravan (not brother) & presence of any serpent woman (naag-kanya) is not found in the whole incident. Mahiravan's plan for abducting Ram-Lakshman is very interesting & unique (I will post later, this process of abduction was affected by a European Myth, there was a thief whose character matches with Mahiravan). Devi Durga (Jogaadyaa) told Hanuman the way of Mahiravan's death!

22)       Before the final battle, Ravan worshipped Goddess Durga. Being pleased with Ravan, Goddess came & sat on his chariot! Then Ram had to worship Devi Durga according to Lord Bramha's advice. But Maa Durga played a trick. Ram collected 108 blue lotuses with help of Hanuman to offer her, but one of them was hidden by her. Then lotus-eyed Lord Ram decided to offer his one eye instead of the missing lotus! Maa Durga became pleased & left Ravan's chariot. (This process of worshipping Maa Durga with 108 lotuses is still followed by Bengali people today in their well-known Durga pooja fesrival of autumn)

23)      UttarKand is different from that of Valmiki Ramayan & that shown in Ramanand Sagar's Luv Kush. Here Sita herself wanted to visit Valmiki's ashram as her only wish during pregnancy, so Ram had to arrange this. But before that, Bhadra presented the pathetic news of people's talk about Sita, & Ram himself heard the conversation between two washer men which made him sure about the news. Like the Valmiki Ramayan, Sita didn't know about her exile before reaching to the other side of river Ganga.

24)       Shatrughna alone heard Ramayan (story till then) sung by Luv Kush while he returned from Madhupuri after slaying Lavanasur. He spent that night in Valmiki's ashram. He became very emotional to hear Ramayan but could not see the singers. He asked Valmiki about the singers but Valmiki avoided carefully.

25)       The war of Luv Kush with their uncles is interestingly & elaborately narrated here. This is not written by Valmiki, Krittivas adopted this incident from Jaimini Bharat. The whole war is similar with that shown by Ramanand Sagar, only with one difference. The boys not only made their uncles unconscious, they killed them, & also killed Vibhisan's & Sugriv's battle. Only Hanuman & Jamvuban were alive because they had boon of immortality. & they also fought against Ram, but neither Ram nor Luv Kush could win. The children made their father unconscious. Finally Valmiki came & made all of them alive.

 

  I have noticed that there are lots of similarities between Krittivas & Tulsidas versions, they are so much similar in various incidents & in descriptions that I guess one must be influenced by the other! Now we have to know who appears first, Tulsidas or Krittivas? I found that Wikipedia says (see my first post), Krittivas's time was much earlier. So should we conclude that Tulsidasji read the Krittivasi Ramayan? What do you think, friends?  


  

 



Edited by Urmila11 - 12 July 2011 at 3:14am

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Posted: 31 May 2011 at 5:23am | IP Logged

Now I finished my initial duty of introducing my favorite poet with you. Hope you are happy to meet Krittivas & his Ramayan!

Thanks to Vrish who requested me to open this thread!

Thanks to Lola & Lalitha di for their sweet support!

 If you have any point to discuss, please mention it! I will post the important incidents I listed one by one in my next posts.

 
 
Aadikand- Ravan's attempt on Hardhanu before Sita's swayamvar- Pg 11
 
Lankakand- Taranisen vadh- Pg 6
 
                   - Ahiravan vadh - Pg 4
                   
                     -Ravan expresses his Birodhi Bhakti to Mandodari - Pg 11
                     
                       -Shri Ram performed Durga Puja - Pg 8
 
                     -Hanuman finds out Ravan's mrityu-vaan -Pg 11
 
                     -Sita Maa feeds Hanuman - Pg 4
 
Uttarkand- A wonderful story of Lakshman's sacrifice during vanvaas - Pg 6
              

 



Edited by Urmila11 - 13 July 2012 at 8:42pm

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Posted: 11 June 2011 at 2:01am | IP Logged
Urmila
 
Thanks sooo much for opening this thread. Hug  Actually, you've answered a lot of questions I had right below, so I'll add any comments &  further questions inline below in this color
 
Originally posted by Urmila11

I listed some important events from this Ramayan:

 

1)      Krittivas changed the name pf Balkand & YuddhaKand. In this version, BalKand is named as "AadiKand" & YuddhaKand as "LankaKand".

This tends to follow Tulsidas as far as Lankakand goes - although Tulsidas still calls the first kand Balkand, like Valmiki did
 
2)      The wonderful story of king Harishchandra (the grandfather of king Sagar) is nicely & elaborately narrated in Krittivasi Ramayan. This story tells how king Harishchandra became helpless with the plan of sage Viswamitra; even the poor king had to sale not only his wife & child, but also himself finally!
 
So that was a part of the epic as well?  Does Krittivas have the entire Raghuvansa captured here - does he narrate the stories of Dilipa, Raghu and Aja as well?

3)      Marriage of Dasharath with Kousalya, Kaikeyi & Sumitra is elaborately narrated. According to this version, Kousalya & Sumitra's marriage with Dasharath was arranged by their parents, but Kaikeyi had to face swaymvar & she choose Dasharath.

In the ACK Dasharath, it's shown that Kaikeyi was given to Dasharath by Akshawati (forget the exact name) on condition that her son becomes king.  Wouldn't have been the case had she voluntarily chosen him in a swayamvar, so wonder whether Krittivas had translated this from something else?  I thought that the reason Akshavati put this condition on was that he was giving a young Kaikeyi in marriage to a pretty old Dasharath
 
4)      This version tells wonderfully how Dasharath became a friend of Jatayu. In an occation, Jatayu saved Dasharath's life & the king accepted him as friend.

5)      Birth of Lord Ganesh & the fact behind His elephant face is completely different here from that one in Vays's Mahabharat. Here Lord Shani is responsible for Ganesh's death, instead of Lord Shiva!

6)      When Kousalya & Kaikeyi shared the holy kheer with Sumitra, Kousalya told her, "Your son will accompany my son" & Kaikeyi told, "Your son will be a servant of my son", Sumitra agreed to those conditions & then she got the share.

Dead (not @ you, Urmila, @ this account) Anyway, this a/c seems to match Tulsidas, not Valmiki.  Valmiki gave the first half to Kaushalya, 2nd quarter to Sumitra, 3rd eighth to Kaikeyi and 4th eighth again to Sumitra.
 
7)      According to Lord Shiva's order, Parshuram gave Shiva's bow to king Janak & told him, "I want to marry your daughter Sita, but now I'm going for 'tapasya', so keep this bow, if anyone can lift this bow before I return, you may accept that person as your son-in-law".
 
Dead In other words, Parashuram had his evil eyes on Sita?  Incidentally, did Parashuram accost Rama in the swayamvara itself (Tulsidas) or when the baraat was returning to Ayodhya (Valmiki)?

8)      When Viswamitra pleaded to Dasharath for Ram, being overwhelmed with affection & fear, the king made a plan & sent Bharat-Shatrughna instead of Ram-Lakshman with sage! On the way, Viswamitra could recognize them & became furious on the king. As a result, the king had to send Ram-Lakshman finally!

Dead Mahakavi Krittivas Dasharather naam Dubiye chereche LOL
 
9)      Guru Vasistha fixed such a holy moment for the quadruple marriage of RLBS & SUMS that would result never separation between husband & wife. But all the Gods became worried by this arrangement & plan fully made that moment over!
 
So how did they undo it, and that too, so well that Sita was separated from Rama twice?

10)   In AranyaKand, when Lakshman left Sita alone in the cottage, he drew a line (Lakshman-rekha) to save her. (Tulsidasji didn't show this line in AranyaKand, he mentioned it later as Mandodari's dialogue to Ravan)

Yeah, this is one of the worst inventions in the Ramayan, and contributed much to misogynic thought in medeaval times, that wasn't there in ancient times.
 
11)   Being insulted by Ravan, Vibhison met his elder brother Kuber at Kailas. Then both Kuber & Lord Shiva advised him to join Ram. Here Kuber is described as a friend (sakha) of Lord Shiva. 

12)   Vasmalochon, a demon of Ravan's court, had such a power that his one glance could burn anything! When Ram's battle crossed the bridge, Ravan sent Vasmalochon to kill all of them. But Ram destroyed him using the mirror-weapon (darpan-astra) which made mirrors on everyone's face! As a result, the demon saw his own image on their faces & died by the fire of his own eyes! (This story was an influence of European Myth & legend, there was a similar character named Balor who had the same power.)

Yeah, this is one of the famous, but usually glossed over, since Valmiki & Tulsidas don't have it: dunno about the others.  Except that in the Kumbhakarna ACK, it's shown as happening early in the war, whereas in Krittivas itself, from what I could gather, it actually happened after the death of Indrajit.  This really surprised me, as one would have thought that as yuvraj, Indrajit would have been the last one to be sent by Ravan
 
13)   The meeting of Angad with Ravan. This part can make a reader laugh heartily. It expresses the sense of humor of the author. It's too long, will post later.

14)   Makaraksha, the son of Khar, came to the battlefield with a wonderful plan. He put many cows on his chariot. Ram & his Vanar army hesitated to hurt him in fear of killing the cows (go-hatya)! Ram used wind weapon (paban-astra) to remove the cows from his chariot & destroyed the demon.

15)       Vibhison had a son named Taranisen. He was a great devotee like his father, but after Makaraksha's death Ravan forced him to join the battlefield. His parting scene from his mother Sarama is very touching. In battlefield, Taranisen uttered a divine prayer to Ram, hearing which the Lord became affectionate to him, He told, " I can't hurt my devotee,--------I know there is no other way to escape Sita,-------but I can't tolerate my devotee's pain! My devotee is my all!" Then Taranisen thought that he will never achieve "mukti" if Ram disagreed to slay him. He changed his words & started to insult Ram, which was completely acting. After his death, Vibhison revealed that Taranisen was his son. Lord Ram broke down in grief. The whole incident is full of tears.

Yeah, I too had read somewhere that Vibhishan had a son, who fought in the war and was killed by Rama.  But what I recalled from that account was that he voluntarily went to battle, and got killed, don't remember whether it was Rama who killed him, or someone else.  Was he that formidable - I'd have thought that even someone like Sugriv could have made short work of him
 
I also read somewhere that Indrajit too had a son, who after Indrajit's death, was sent by Ravan to avenge him.  He too fought and died - Ravan was left w/ no successors.  Is it Krittivas who has something like this?  Also, does Krittivas go into the character of Sulochana?
 
16)       The character of Birbahu is a new addition here. He was another son of Ravan, his mother's name was Chitrangada. He was a devotee too, made several prayers to Ram in battlefield. As a result Ram again wanted to stop the war but Birbahu followed Taranisen.

(Ravan too, in his final war with Ram, did the same! In fact his Aarati was longer in size & more emotional than the previous ones!)  

17)      The Shktishel episode. Shkti was the weapon of Ravan (not of Indrajit) which was given by his father-in-law Mayadanav & Ravan applied it after Indrajit's death (just like the Valmiki Ramayan). Here also, Susen is the doctor of Kiskindhya (not of Lanka) & he was in Ram's side as always.

In this aspect, Krittivas seems to follow Valmiki more than Adhyatma (I won't say Tulsidas, since Krittivas preceded him).  Although in Valmiki, Lakshman was downed twice - once by Indrajit, and second time after Indrajit's death, by Ravan.
 
18)       After Kalnemi vadh, Ravan became worried & forced Sun-God (SuryaDev) to rise earlier in the mid-night. Sun-God initially disagreed to do so as it's a violation of natural rules, but al last he had to agree fearfully. But Hanuman stopped his chariot & requested him not to do so. SuryaDev happily agreed but asked for a plan. Hanuman took him under his arms!
 
Again, follows Valmiki, not Adhyatma

19)       The meeting of Hanuman with Bharat is slightly modified here. Firstly, Guru Vasistha made Hanuman awake. He scolded Bharat for hurting Hanuman without knowing his actual intention. Hanuman too, scolded Bharat! Secondly, Bharat put Hanuman with the mountain on his arrow & threw it to Lanka in order to save time.

Okay, in Valmiki, Hanuman never met anyone in Ayodhya during that flight
 
20)       Hanuman had to kill several Gandharvas who prevented him to touch Gandhamadan. He made them alive again with the Mritsanjivani while went to keep Gandhamadan in its place.

Like in Valmiki

21)       The Mahiravan-Ahiravan incident is far different from that shown in NDTV Ramayan. Here Mahiravan is another son of Ravan who born in patal-lok & lived there.  Here Ahiravan is son of Mahiravan (not brother) & presence of any serpent woman (naag-kanya) is not found in the whole incident. Mahiravan's plan for abducting Ram-Lakshman is very interesting & unique (I will post later, this process of abduction was affected by a European Myth, there was a thief whose character matches with Mahiravan). Devi Durga (Jogaadyaa) told Hanuman the way of Mahiravan's death!
 
Actually, when I told you I have questions, this is where I had the biggest question.  In school, we had the poem 'Mahiravan vadh' in the ICSE, which was right from here.  In it, Ravan does invoke Mahiravan after the death of Indrajit.  The story is exactly what the ACK Mahiravan has - Hanuman makes a tent w/ his tail surrounding Rama & Lakshman in preparation for Mahiravan's attempt, and he himself guards the only entrance to it.  Vibhishan tells him to beware of anybody, while he does the rounds.  Mahiravan first approaches Hanuman in the guises of Dasharath & Bharat, but Hanuman asks him to wait for Vibhishan, who should be able to see thru his disguise.  Both times, Mahiravan disappears.  Finally, Mahiravan takes Vibhishan's roop ROFL and approaches Hanuman, who lets him in.  When the real Vibhishan comes to Hanuman, the latter suspects him to be Mahiravan ROFL
 
They go in and find that Mahiravan has put everyone to sleep and captured Rama & Lakshman.  Hanuman goes to patal and finds that the 2 of them are prisoners, and to be sacrificed to Durga (not some Rakshasha god as depicted in the serial).  Hanuman asks Durga how to save them, and she gives him a plan.  He tells Rama & Lakshman about it.  When the time is come to sacrifice Rama & Lakshman, Mahiravan tells them to bow, but Rama tells him that being royalty, others bow to them, they don't bow to anyone, and ask Mahiravan to show them.  Mahiravan throws away his scimitar and does it, and Hanuman, who was shrunken, suddenly assumed his full form and took the opportunity to behead Mahiravan, who like all demons, became released from his curse and returned to the Gandharva realm.
 
My question - was the story of panchamukhi here?  or somewhere else?  According to that, Hanuman had to simultaneously put out 5 diyas located in different places in a room.  He took this form, where 4 of his faces face the 4 directions, and the 5th upwards, and he simultaneously blows out the diyas.
 
Bottom line - Hanuman, not Rama, killed Mahiravan.  Also, Angad, Jambavan, Nala & Neela did not go.
 
Now, what was the story of Ahiravan?  Can you narrate that?
 
22)       Before the final battle, Ravan worshipped Goddess Durga. Being pleased with Ravan, Goddess came & sat on his chariot! Then Ram had to worship Devi Durga according to Lord Bramha's advice. But Maa Durga played a trick. Ram collected 108 blue lotuses with help of Hanuman to offer her, but one of them was hidden by her. Then lotus-eyed Lord Ram decided to offer his one eye instead of the missing lotus! Maa Durga became pleased & left Ravan's chariot. (This process of worshipping Maa Durga with 108 lotuses is still followed by Bengali people today in their well-known Durga pooja fesrival of autumn)
 
Was it 108 lotuses or 1000?  The serial showed 1000, and someone commented on that in my YouTube channel - see below.  I checked out the text, and seem to recall it saying 1000 (sahasra).  Just confirm it for me and if you have an YouTube a/c, read those comments and fill in your findings?
 
23)      UttarKand is different from that of Valmiki Ramayan & that shown in Ramanand Sagar's Luv Kush. Here Sita herself wanted to visit Valmiki's ashram as her only wish during pregnancy, so Ram had to arrange this. But before that, Bhadra presented the pathetic news of people's talk about Sita, & Ram himself heard the conversation between two washer men which made him sure about the news. Like the Valmiki Ramayan, Sita didn't know about her exile before reaching to the other side of river Ganga.
 
Ramanand Sagar's serial had Tulsidas' account of Uttarkand, which didn't have Luv-Kush @ all, but instead had that kaagbhushandi story.  But Sita wanting to visit rishis was very much there in Valmiki, except that she wasn't specific about Valmiki.  However, @ this time, Rama got the news from Bhadra about this rumor mongering about Sita.  In Valmiki, there was no dhobi, so now we know that the dhobi story originates from whoever Krittivas translated from.
 
Incidentally, in Krittivas, do the rishis visit Rama after his coronation and give him the full story of Ravan, Vali & Hanuman?
 
24)       Shatrughna alone heard Ramayan (story till then) sung by Luv Kush while he returned from Madhupuri after slaying Lavanasur. He spent that night in Valmiki's ashram. He became very emotional to hear Ramayan but could not see the singers. He asked Valmiki about the singers but Valmiki avoided carefully.

25)       The war of Luv Kush with their uncles is interestingly & elaborately narrated here. This is not written by Valmiki, Krittivas adopted this incident from Jaimini Bharat. The whole war is similar with that shown by Ramanand Sagar, only with one difference. The boys not only made their uncles unconscious, they killed them, & also killed Vibhisan's & Sugriv's battle. Only Hanuman & Jamvuban were alive because they had boon of immortality. & they also fought against Ram, but neither Ram nor Luv Kush could win. The children made their father unconscious. Finally Valmiki came & made all of them alive.

Now, you've made me curious about Jaimini Bharat LOL  Besides, Vibhisan too had the boon of immortality, so he too shouldn't have died.  I think the term 'killed' was loosely used by some poets. 

  I have noticed that there are lots of similarities between Krittivas & Tulsidas versions, they are so much similar in various incidents & in descriptions that I guess one must be influenced by the other! Now we have to know who appears first, Tulsidas or Krittivas? I found that Wikipedia says (see my first post), Krittivas's time was much earlier. So should we conclude that Tulsidasji read the Krittivasi Ramayan? What do you think, friends?  

Tulsidas used Adhyatma as his source, and not Krittivas, and definitely not Valmiki.  Krittivas does seem to use a lot of Valmiki in his account.  But yeah, Krittivas does precede Tulsidas.

Thanks again for providing all these accounts Smile  

  

 



Edited by _Vrish_ - 11 June 2011 at 6:09am

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DebipriyaUrmila11lola610

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Posted: 11 June 2011 at 11:15pm | IP Logged
Sema!!! What a thread yaar, this is awesome... sooo much detail and so well thought out, the way you told us which sources he matched where and which familiar scenes we can attribute to his work... hats off Clap Will read it more thoroughly and make more requests for specific stories later, but for now I would love to know more about Vibhishan's son as well as the Angad-Ravan scene since you said it's funny... you know I love funny LOL Thanks a lot, I for sure will thoroughly enjoy learning new stories in this thread!

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DebipriyaUrmila11.Vrish.

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Posted: 17 June 2011 at 8:57am | IP Logged
@ Vrish,

Here are my replies to you
Smile sorry for the late, I saved your questions in a word file & then edited it with my replies, so my replies are in red color along with your questions.

1)      Krittivas changed the name pf Balkand & YuddhaKand. In this version, BalKand is named as "AadiKand" & YuddhaKand as "LankaKand".

This tends to follow Tulsidas as far as Lankakand goes - although Tulsidas still calls the first kand Balkand, like Valmiki did

 

As Krittivas precedes Tulsidas, we have to conclude that either Krittivas himself changed the names, or he was influenced by some other sources.

 

2)      The wonderful story of king Harishchandra (the grandfather of king Sagar) is nicely & elaborately narrated in Krittivasi Ramayan. This story tells how king Harishchandra became helpless with the plan of sage Viswamitra; even the poor king had to sale not only his wife & child, but also himself finally!

 

So that was a part of the epic as well?  Does Krittivas have the entire Raghuvansa captured here - does he narrate the stories of Dilipa, Raghu and Aja as well?

 

Yes, Krittivas narrated all the stories of Dilip, Raghu & Aja-Indumati elaborately & they are similar with that of Kalidaas's Raghuvangsha.

3)      Marriage of Dasharath with Kousalya, Kaikeyi & Sumitra is elaborately narrated. According to this version, Kousalya & Sumitra's marriage with Dasharath was arranged by their parents, but Kaikeyi had to face swaymvar & she choose Dasharath.

In the ACK Dasharath, it's shown that Kaikeyi was given to Dasharath by Akshawati (forget the exact name) on condition that her son becomes king.  Wouldn't have been the case had she voluntarily chosen him in a swayamvar, so wonder whether Krittivas had translated this from something else?  I thought that the reason Akshavati put this condition on was that he was giving a young Kaikeyi in marriage to a pretty old Dasharath

 

The name of Kaikeyi's father was Ashwapati. In Valmiki Ramayan, Dasharath became severely injured in the war with demon Sambar. Then Kaikeyi saved his life, & grateful Dasharath promised to give her two boons. Kaikeyi didn't want them at that moment, in Ayodhyakand, Manthara reminded her about them. & Krittivas too told the same. But yes, in 107th sarga of Ayodhyakand Shri Ram told Bharat that Dasharath promised to Ashwapati to give the kingdom to Kaikeyi's son. I think it doesn't matter that Kaikeyi faced swayamvar or not, because those two boons were responsible for Ram's destiny, during that time nobody remembered Ashwapati's promise, so I think that promise made no effect on Dasharath's decision. It seems that either the king forgot that promise or ignored it. I guess it might make Krittivas to eliminate that ineffective promise. So he showed swayamvar to delete the story.

 

4)      This version tells wonderfully how Dasharath became a friend of Jatayu. In an occation, Jatayu saved Dasharath's life & the king accepted him as friend.

5)      Birth of Lord Ganesh & the fact behind His elephant face is completely different here from that one in Vays's Mahabharat. Here Lord Shani is responsible for Ganesh's death, instead of Lord Shiva!

6)      When Kousalya & Kaikeyi shared the holy kheer with Sumitra, Kousalya told her, "Your son will accompany my son" & Kaikeyi told, "Your son will be a servant of my son", Sumitra agreed to those conditions & then she got the share.

 (not @ you, Urmila, @ this account) Anyway, this a/c seems to match Tulsidas, not Valmiki.  Valmiki gave the first half to Kaushalya, 2nd quarter to Sumitra, 3rd eighth to Kaikeyi and 4th eighth again to Sumitra.

 

I know, Vrish, this part matches with Ramcharitmanas but not with Valmiki Ramayan. Perhaps this appears from Adhytma Ramayan as Krittivas couldn't copy from Tulsidas LOL. But how is this addition of Krittivas? I mean, what do you think about these two promises made by Sumitra?

 

7)      According to Lord Shiva's order, Parshuram gave Shiva's bow to king Janak & told him, "I want to marry your daughter Sita, but now I'm going for 'tapasya', so keep this bow, if anyone can lift this bow before I return, you may accept that person as your son-in-law".

 

 In other words, Parashuram had his evil eyes on Sita?  Incidentally, did Parashuram accost Rama in the swayamvara itself (Tulsidas) or when the baraat was returning to Ayodhya (Valmiki)?

 

Parshuram appeared when Dasharath was returning Ayodhya with sons & daughters-in-law, so this again follows Valmiki. Listening to the noise of crowd Parshuram thought, "Surely someone has married Sita" & then rushed to the spot.

I myself don't think that Parshuram had evil eyes on Sita. As he was an incarnation of Vishnu himself, it is not abnormal that he wanted to marry Lakshmi (Sita).

8)      When Viswamitra pleaded to Dasharath for Ram, being overwhelmed with affection & fear, the king made a plan & sent Bharat-Shatrughna instead of Ram-Lakshman with sage! On the way, Viswamitra could recognize them & became furious on the king. As a result, the king had to send Ram-Lakshman finally!

 Mahakavi Krittivas Dasharather naam Dubiye chereche 

 

I couldn't guess that you know so clear Bengali! Yes I agree, this incident lowers Dasharath's character, & a great poet like Krittivas should not do that. But I think it's only to represent Dasharath's heavenly love & affection towards Ram. I agree that he should not send his other two sons to face such a danger as they were his own children too, but most probably Krittivas wanted to prepare the reader for the next facts. & so he made Dasharath to play such a trick just to express the extremeness of his affection to Ram, that affection which can even end a father's life, & poet wanted to give a hint of this extreme love previously in first kand. That's completely my opinion. But also, Vrish, we don't know which source Krittivas translated from, so we can't decide whether this fact is his brainchild or not. So we can't blame him alone, can we?   

 

9)      Guru Vasistha fixed such a holy moment for the quadruple marriage of RLBS & SUMS that would result never separation between husband & wife. But all the Gods became worried by this arrangement & plan fully made that moment over!

 

So how did they undo it, and that too, so well that Sita was separated from Rama twice?

 

Being worried the Gods sent the Moon-God (Chandradev) to Mithila. He started to dance in the royal palace, & all became so mesmerized with Chandradev's dance that the holy moment fixed by Guru Vasistha passed away, & nobody noticed it!

Not only Sita was separated from Ram, but Urmila & Mandavi were also separated from their husbands later, right? So this plan of Gods became entirely successful. & about the second separation of Uttarkand, I think that Gods didn't want it! & they perhaps didn't thought about that separation, as they knew Lord Vishnu will surely fulfill his devotee's curse. But the first separation was needed for all of them & for mankind. So they only thought about Ravan's death & their liberation from all sufferings caused by demons at that time.  

10)   In AranyaKand, when Lakshman left Sita alone in the cottage, he drew a line (Lakshman-rekha) to save her. (Tulsidasji didn't show this line in AranyaKand, he mentioned it later as Mandodari's dialogue to Ravan)

Yeah, this is one of the worst inventions in the Ramayan, and contributed much to misogynic thought in medeaval times, that wasn't there in ancient times.

 

Sorry, Vrish, I can't agree with you in this regard. I don't think that the Lakshman rekha incident can influence misogamy; it was done only to save Sita, not to insult her. Rather people of next era treat this fact as an example of respect to women. We can see that in Ramayan's time people used to respect their sisters-in-law (in human society, don't look at vanar & rakshas society) but in Mahabharat's time this respect disappeared. How could Lakshman leave his motherly sister-in-law alone & unsafe in that cottage after visiting the demons like Khar-Dusan? In Valmiki too, he prayed for Sita's protection to Gods, & here he drew that line only for more security. Remember, he was going to violate Ram's order then, & he had to carry the responsibility of Sita's security. His line was just a representative of him in his absence. & if you think about misogynic thoughts, then I will say that the story of Ahalya, Sita's abduction & the thoughts of Ayodhya's people at Uttarkand had much more contribution to them, as they all are insults to women. Lakshman rekha is a sign of protection, not of offense.      

 

11)   Being insulted by Ravan, Vibhison met his elder brother Kuber at Kailas. Then both Kuber & Lord Shiva advised him to join Ram. Here Kuber is described as a friend (sakha) of Lord Shiva. 

12)   Vasmalochon, a demon of Ravan's court, had such a power that his one glance could burn anything! When Ram's battle crossed the bridge, Ravan sent Vasmalochon to kill all of them. But Ram destroyed him using the mirror-weapon (darpan-astra) which made mirrors on everyone's face! As a result, the demon saw his own image on their faces & died by the fire of his own eyes! (This story was an influence of European Myth & legend, there was a similar character named Balor who had the same power.)

Yeah, this is one of the famous, but usually glossed over, since Valmiki & Tulsidas don't have it: dunno about the others.  Except that in the Kumbhakarna ACK, it's shown as happening early in the war, whereas in Krittivas itself, from what I could gather, it actually happened after the death of Indrajit.  This really surprised me, as one would have thought that as yuvraj, Indrajit would have been the last one to be sent by Ravan

 

Indrajit is always the last person sent by Ravan. Valmiki, Krittivas, Tulsidas, all have shown the same.

 

13)   The meeting of Angad with Ravan. This part can make a reader laugh heartily. It expresses the sense of humor of the author. It's too long, will post later.

14)   Makaraksha, the son of Khar, came to the battlefield with a wonderful plan. He put many cows on his chariot. Ram & his Vanar army hesitated to hurt him in fear of killing the cows (go-hatya)! Ram used wind weapon (paban-astra) to remove the cows from his chariot & destroyed the demon.

15)       Vibhison had a son named Taranisen. He was a great devotee like his father, but after Makaraksha's death Ravan forced him to join the battlefield. His parting scene from his mother Sarama is very touching. In battlefield, Taranisen uttered a divine prayer to Ram, hearing which the Lord became affectionate to him, He told, " I can't hurt my devotee,--------I know there is no other way to escape Sita,-------but I can't tolerate my devotee's pain! My devotee is my all!" Then Taranisen thought that he will never achieve "mukti" if Ram disagreed to slay him. He changed his words & started to insult Ram, which was completely acting. After his death, Vibhison revealed that Taranisen was his son. Lord Ram broke down in grief. The whole incident is full of tears.

Yeah, I too had read somewhere that Vibhishan had a son, who fought in the war and was killed by Rama.  But what I recalled from that account was that he voluntarily went to battle, and got killed, don't remember whether it was Rama who killed him, or someone else.  Was he that formidable - I'd have thought that even someone like Sugriv could have made short work of him

 

In Krittivasi Ramayan, Vibhison's son was too powerful to defeat vanar warriors very easily. Then Ram had to appear to fight with him. Actually he was a true devotee of Shri Ram & wanted to die in Ram's hand, so he had to remove others to fight with Ram only. I will post the whole story later.   

 

I also read somewhere that Indrajit too had a son, who after Indrajit's death, was sent by Ravan to avenge him.  He too fought and died - Ravan was left w/ no successors.  Is it Krittivas who has something like this?  Also, does Krittivas go into the character of Sulochana?

 

No, Krittivas had no such story about Indrajit's son, here Indrajit had many wives but Krittivas didn't mention any of them in particular, so Sulochona's story is missing from this version. I think Sulochona is the brainchild of Tulsidas only.

What is the source of this story of Indrajit's son? Can you please tell me?

 

16)       The character of Birbahu is a new addition here. He was another son of Ravan, his mother's name was Chitrangada. He was a devotee too, made several prayers to Ram in battlefield. As a result Ram again wanted to stop the war but Birbahu followed Taranisen.

(Ravan too, in his final war with Ram, did the same! In fact his Aarati was longer in size & more emotional than the previous ones!)  

17)      The Shktishel episode. Shkti was the weapon of Ravan (not of Indrajit) which was given by his father-in-law Mayadanav & Ravan applied it after Indrajit's death (just like the Valmiki Ramayan). Here also, Susen is the doctor of Kiskindhya (not of Lanka) & he was in Ram's side as always.

In this aspect, Krittivas seems to follow Valmiki more than Adhyatma (I won't say Tulsidas, since Krittivas preceded him).  Although in Valmiki, Lakshman was downed twice - once by Indrajit, and second time after Indrajit's death, by Ravan.

 

Yes this part is from Valmiki but Krittivas added many new incidents here like Kalnemi vadh, Sun-God story, Hanuman's meeting with Bharat & Hanuman's fight with Gandharvas of Gandhamadan etc.     

 

18)  After Kalnemi vadh, Ravan became worried & forced Sun-God (SuryaDev) to rise earlier in the mid-night. Sun-God initially disagreed to do so as it's a violation of natural rules, but al last he had to agree fearfully. But Hanuman stopped his chariot & requested him not to do so. SuryaDev happily agreed but asked for a plan. Hanuman took him under his arms!

 

Again, follows Valmiki, not Adhyatma

 

This part does not follow Valmiki at all. Valmiki never showed Kalnemi vadh & this amazing incident of Sun-God. I guess Sun-God case was shown in new Ramayan (I haven't watched the new serial much, so I may be wrong). I guess they adopted this story only from Krittivas as Tulsidas hasn't it. Read the Valmiki version here, Valmiki Ramayana - Yuddha Kanda

19)       The meeting of Hanuman with Bharat is slightly modified here. Firstly, Guru Vasistha made Hanuman awake. He scolded Bharat for hurting Hanuman without knowing his actual intention. Hanuman too, scolded Bharat! Secondly, Bharat put Hanuman with the mountain on his arrow & threw it to Lanka in order to save time.

Okay, in Valmiki, Hanuman never met anyone in Ayodhya during that flight

 

Tulsidas also has this story of Hanuman-Bharat meeting. As I haven't read Adhyatma Ramayan, & guess you have read it, I like to ask you one thing. Is this incident shown in Adhyatma? If not, then we can conclude that Tulsidas adopted this story from Krittivas.

 

20)       Hanuman had to kill several Gandharvas who prevented him to touch Gandhamadan. He made them alive again with the Mritsanjivani while went to keep Gandhamadan in its place.

Like in Valmiki

No, Valmiki never showed any war between Hanuman & Gandharvas. In Valmiki Ramayan, Hanuman didn't face any trouble in his flight for Sanjivani. But in Krittivas he faced Kalnemi, made a plan with Suryadev, narrated all facts to Bharat & fought with Gandharvas. In Valmiki, there was nobody in Gandhamadan parvat to prevent Hanuman to touch it.

21)       The Mahiravan-Ahiravan incident is far different from that shown in NDTV Ramayan. Here Mahiravan is another son of Ravan who born in patal-lok & lived there.  Here Ahiravan is son of Mahiravan (not brother) & presence of any serpent woman (naag-kanya) is not found in the whole incident. Mahiravan's plan for abducting Ram-Lakshman is very interesting & unique (I will post later, this process of abduction was affected by a European Myth, there was a thief whose character matches with Mahiravan). Devi Durga (Jogaadyaa) told Hanuman the way of Mahiravan's death!

 

Actually, when I told you I have questions, this is where I had the biggest question.  In school, we had the poem 'Mahiravan vadh' in the ICSE, which was right from here.  In it, Ravan does invoke Mahiravan after the death of Indrajit.  The story is exactly what the ACK Mahiravan has - Hanuman makes a tent w/ his tail surrounding Rama & Lakshman in preparation for Mahiravan's attempt, and he himself guards the only entrance to it.  Vibhishan tells him to beware of anybody, while he does the rounds.  Mahiravan first approaches Hanuman in the guises of Dasharath & Bharat, but Hanuman asks him to wait for Vibhishan, who should be able to see thru his disguise.  Both times, Mahiravan disappears.  Finally, Mahiravan takes Vibhishan's roop and approaches Hanuman, who lets him in.  When the real Vibhishan comes to Hanuman, the latter suspects him to be Mahiravan

 

OMG! Whatever you know about this part completely matches with Krittivas! Only with a little addition, in Krittivasi Ramayan, Mahiravan took the form of Maa Kousalya & King Janak too after Dasharath & Bharat, & yes, then Vibhison. That's why I told it is an interesting process of abduction.

 

They go in and find that Mahiravan has put everyone to sleep and captured Rama & Lakshman.  Hanuman goes to patal and finds that the 2 of them are prisoners, and to be sacrificed to Durga (not some Rakshasha god as depicted in the serial).  Hanuman asks Durga how to save them, and she gives him a plan.  He tells Rama & Lakshman about it.  When the time is come to sacrifice Rama & Lakshman, Mahiravan tells them to bow, but Rama tells him that being royalty, others bow to them, they don't bow to anyone, and ask Mahiravan to show them.  Mahiravan throws away his scimitar and does it, and Hanuman, who was shrunken, suddenly assumed his full form and took the opportunity to behead Mahiravan, who like all demons, became released from his curse and returned to the Gandharva realm.

 

Yes, that part matches with Krittivas too, & Devi Durga is called Yogadyaa here, which is one of her 51 forms of 51 Shakti-pith. & the power Mahiravan had to put everyone to sleep, this is similar with a thief narrated in European myth.

 

My question - was the story of panchamukhi here?  or somewhere else?  According to that, Hanuman had to simultaneously put out 5 diyas located in different places in a room.  He took this form, where 4 of his faces face the 4 directions, and the 5th upwards, and he simultaneously blows out the diyas.

 

No, Krittivas had no such story of panchamukhi. What is its actual source?

 

Bottom line - Hanuman, not Rama, killed Mahiravan.  Also, Angad, Jambavan, Nala & Neela did not go.

 

Exactly. So whatever the new Ramayan showed about this does not match with Krittivasi Ramayan.

 

Now, what was the story of Ahiravan?  Can you narrate that?

 

Oh sure, I will love to narrate it. Will post later.

 

22)       Before the final battle, Ravan worshipped Goddess Durga. Being pleased with Ravan, Goddess came & sat on his chariot! Then Ram had to worship Devi Durga according to Lord Bramha's advice. But Maa Durga played a trick. Ram collected 108 blue lotuses with help of Hanuman to offer her, but one of them was hidden by her. Then lotus-eyed Lord Ram decided to offer his one eye instead of the missing lotus! Maa Durga became pleased & left Ravan's chariot. (This process of worshipping Maa Durga with 108 lotuses is still followed by Bengali people today in their well-known Durga pooja fesrival of autumn)

 

Was it 108 lotuses or 1000?  The serial showed 1000, and someone commented on that in my YouTube channel - see below.  I checked out the text, and seem to recall it saying 1000 (sahasra).  Just confirm it for me and if you have an YouTube a/c, read those comments and fill in your findings?

 

I read Krittivas from my childhood & it's my bedside reading now. I was 100% sure that it is 108, not 1000. But after your question, I checked it again & again & found that it tells several times that it is 108 (shatasta), not sahasra. & Bengali people still worship Maa Durga with 108 lotuses, as this process of Durga puja came from Krittivasi Ramayan, I'm totally sure that it's strictly 108, not 1000. & yes, I have Youtube channel & I saw the comments on your channel too, don't know why people wrote that it was 1000 in Krittivas version, it is completely wrong information. I will post my comments there too.

 

 

 

23)      UttarKand is different from that of Valmiki Ramayan & that shown in Ramanand Sagar's Luv Kush. Here Sita herself wanted to visit Valmiki's ashram as her only wish during pregnancy, so Ram had to arrange this. But before that, Bhadra presented the pathetic news of people's talk about Sita, & Ram himself heard the conversation between two washer men which made him sure about the news. Like the Valmiki Ramayan, Sita didn't know about her exile before reaching to the other side of river Ganga.

 

Ramanand Sagar's serial had Tulsidas' account of Uttarkand, which didn't have Luv-Kush @ all, but instead had that kaagbhushandi story.  But Sita wanting to visit rishis was very much there in Valmiki, except that she wasn't specific about Valmiki.  However, @ this time, Rama got the news from Bhadra about this rumor mongering about Sita.  In Valmiki, there was no dhobi, so now we know that the dhobi story originates from whoever Krittivas translated from.

 

Incidentally, in Krittivas, do the rishis visit Rama after his coronation and give him the full story of Ravan, Vali & Hanuman?

 

Yes, Krittivas's Uttarkand is too long & it has all the stories of Ravan's dynasty, Ravan's fight with Kuber, Anaranya (Ram's ancestor), Kartabiryarjun, Vali, Yama, Mandhata etc. & full story of Hanuman's past which was narrated to Ram by the sages. 

 

24)       Shatrughna alone heard Ramayan (story till then) sung by Luv Kush while he returned from Madhupuri after slaying Lavanasur. He spent that night in Valmiki's ashram. He became very emotional to hear Ramayan but could not see the singers. He asked Valmiki about the singers but Valmiki avoided carefully.

25)       The war of Luv Kush with their uncles is interestingly & elaborately narrated here. This is not written by Valmiki, Krittivas adopted this incident from Jaimini Bharat. The whole war is similar with that shown by Ramanand Sagar, only with one difference. The boys not only made their uncles unconscious, they killed them, & also killed Vibhisan's & Sugriv's battle. Only Hanuman & Jamvuban were alive because they had boon of immortality. & they also fought against Ram, but neither Ram nor Luv Kush could win. The children made their father unconscious. Finally Valmiki came & made all of them alive.

Now, you've made me curious about Jaimini Bharat   Besides, Vibhisan too had the boon of immortality, so he too shouldn't have died.  I think the term 'killed' was loosely used by some poets. 

I'm also curious about Jaimini Bharat, but couldn't find it till now. Vibhison didn't die but he did nothing mentionable here, so I eliminated his name.

  I have noticed that there are lots of similarities between Krittivas & Tulsidas versions, they are so much similar in various incidents & in descriptions that I guess one must be influenced by the other! Now we have to know who appears first, Tulsidas or Krittivas? I found that Wikipedia says (see my first post), Krittivas's time was much earlier. So should we conclude that Tulsidasji read the Krittivasi Ramayan? What do you think, friends?  

Tulsidas used Adhyatma as his source, and not Krittivas, and definitely not Valmiki.  Krittivas does seem to use a lot of Valmiki in his account.  But yeah, Krittivas does precede Tulsidas.

Yes Krittivas used Valmiki mainly but he also added lots of new stories from other sources. Perhaps he didn't use Adhyatma but used some Puranas & some foreign myths.

Thanks again for providing all these accounts  

 

You are welcome Smile! Glad you are satisfied with these accounts. Keep visiting this thread as I will come soon with some new stories in detail.  

  



Edited by Urmila11 - 17 June 2011 at 9:18am

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Urmila11

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Posted: 17 June 2011 at 9:25am | IP Logged
@ Lola,

My dear Loleshwari Hug a bunch of thanks for liking the thread! Means a lot. I'm coming with the Taranisen's story & Angad-Ravan meeting in detail very soon, Wink so please keep visiting this thread! Big smile I will try to post all important events I listed.

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