The Real Debate! (Page 3)

Silentsoul

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 29 March 2005

Posts: 15813

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:50am | IP Logged

Originally posted by angie.4u

@ Kul- It is DM so you can freely express your honest opinion. The same goes for your opponents in this thread. Tongue As long as no one gets abusive I dont think there should be any trouble.

Angie problem is not others member abusing problem is. Mr gandhi bashing. I belong to class who belongs to Bhagat singh and Bose set of principle. I am not non violence preacher specially for that era. I never believed in Gandhi's principle one point but I actually strongly dislike his princilples which scares me If I spilled that in open forum.

Edited by kuls11 - 15 June 2011 at 11:38am

-Sookie-

Goldie

Joined: 09 January 2009

Posts: 2495

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:04am | IP Logged

Originally posted by angie.4u

What happened during the partition was most barbaric but the partition itself may not have been such a bad idea. The social conditions prevailing at that time were not conducive to a united India thanks to the relentless British policy of Divide and rule supported amply by the religious bigotry and discriminatory attitude that previals in India even today.

If Godse was against partition did he try to get at the bottom of the reasons for it or did it stop at Gandhi's doorstep?

Godse was disturbed by the way partition had ended- in riots and the aftermath of it which reflected everywhere in India. He ended up blaming the person who he truly believed supported and encouraged the cause. I think like many, he honestly believed that Gandhi could have stopped partition. And since it happened and ended up in barbaric way, it did stop at Gandhi's doorstep.

Discriminatory attitude is much worse now as it is one of the political talking points during speeches etc. Politics and religion unfortunately misuse and abuse one another for their own benefits.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Silentsoul,

blue-ice

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 04 March 2009

Posts: 19272

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:08am | IP Logged

Sorry Aarya...I don't feel that I am qualified enough to comment on the assassination of one of the greatest leaders who has earned respect...not only in India but the whole world...the only thing that I have in my heart for Gandhiji and all the the great freedom fighters is a sense of gratitude...I know that its because of their combined efforts that I was born in a free India and not as a slave of some Gora Dead

...I believe that with their limited resources whatever decisions they took whether it was wrong or right...it was for the good of India...We are humans and we make mistakes...but for me it is the intention that counts...
I am not judging anyone this is just my opinion...but I think it would be wrong on my part to sit in my AC roon...typing on my laptop...with the news of the world available at my finger tips ...I should be saying what they did was wrong or not without actually knowing what this great leader went through...
My heart will always be filled with hatred for Nathu Ram...may he rot in hell...

-Aarya-

Goldie

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1471

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:08am | IP Logged

Originally posted by -Sookie-

Originally posted by night13

'Its history and nothing is going to change the fact.'... true, but it's the present and future which is and will suffer from the past! So, if an event occurred yesterday should it be restricted from today!

Now that I am going to take a stand <help me GOD! LOL

>, I am on the side of Godse as Gandhi systematically fooled the people by saying he will never accept the partition of the country over his dead body, but still the partitioned happened, and thus living in war for many decades and more to come.

Godse had no personal grudges over Gandhi, instead he was fighting for a cause which believed in United India and thus no religions segregation or partition. Godse truly respected Gandhi theory on non-violence but this theory denies self-defence and self-interest. The non-violence that defines the fight for survival as violence is a theory not of non-violence but of self-destruction. Was the decision on partition necessary? To me no individual is greater than a nation!

True that the past affects us. Unfortunately, it still is. I have seen more than my share of violence during communal riots so I think I understand the situation quite well.

Godse believed more in Hindutva than the concept of United India. Him being a part of ABHM and being an activist there vouches for that. He was against partition because of the riots that had broke out in its wake.
Am not supporting partition here merely refuting your facts on Godse's ideology. Only stating what Godse believed in. He believed in "Hindu Rashtra".
And that is NOT unified India.

The concept of Hindu Rashtra was not to create RSS, instead they were who believed in the culture and people of the India, who adopted the India as their motherland, thus a united India. I am sure everyone has their own interpretations to their understanding of HR. Hindu basically denotes the national way of life and believed in united country.

-Aarya-

Goldie

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1471

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:10am | IP Logged

Originally posted by kuls11

Originally posted by night13

Originally posted by kuls11

Originally posted by night13

Now that I know how some of you think <really?>, I would like to give you little glimpse on how I think (if you haven't already figured out? LOL

). Name is Aarya (as some of you already know!), am a strategist by profession, for which you can guess that I don't do things with out planning or purpose. The earlier topics created by me were merely a base to understand on how everyone processes such topics! As you can see I have a thirst for controversies, for which I am on the fence about everything! Wink

So now that we are familiar with each other, and thank you for the warm welcome in the DM!, let the real debate begin...

***
Let's take a little stroll in the history lane... shall we?
Assassination of Mohandas Gandhi, did he deserve it? Was Godse on the right path?

I can see your strategy coming up with new debatable topic but how much we debate we cant clarify few conspiracies theories of history just put that according to our belief and understanding.

Your belief and understanding is what I am interested in, and not some articles from Google! :) meaning...See we are talking about human brain not storage hard drive where everything saved years back will be intact even without use. Even with solid notion we need support for our point. And goodle is one click away...so its easy way out

My answer will lies in my question. Was Gandhi right in going with his Pact with Lord Irwin and allowed execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, Sukhdev. I am not supporter of Mr. Gandhi you know that. I can state few of my points which are real controversial ones. I think Nathuram Godse stated his belief in his book, and few of his points were too controversial to state on open forum.

Kul, you know me better than this that I am open for all controversial subjects!
I will bash Gandhi upside down come on chat...then and prove what Godse did was right...but my point are too controversial. ...I will be under scanner on IF outside IF too for spreading hatred against India's great Martyr openly.
I still carry passport of country where GAndhi legacy rule.

Kul, gChat will not save us today... I am here, right now, lets do this! :)

-Aarya-

Goldie

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1471

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:15am | IP Logged

Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by night13

'Its history and nothing is going to change the fact.'... true, but it's the present and future which is and will suffer from the past! So, if an event occurred yesterday should it be restricted from today!

Now that I am going to take a stand <help me GOD! LOL

>, I am on the side of Godse as Gandhi systematically fooled the people by saying he will never accept the partition of the country over his dead body, but still the partitioned happened, and thus living in war for many decades and more to come.

Godse had no personal grudges over Gandhi, instead he was fighting for a cause which believed in United India and thus no religions segregation or partition. Godse truly respected Gandhi theory on non-violence but this theory denies self-defence and self-interest. The non-violence that defines the fight for survival as violence is a theory not of non-violence but of self-destruction. Was the decision on partition necessary? To me no individual is greater than a nation!

So finally you jumped the fence LOL I choose to be on the other side of the fence . I do not support Gandhiji's assassination by Godse and gang. If Godse truly respected Gandhiji's principle of non violence his action goes against it! By no stretch of the imagination can a man who believes in non violence kill a defenseless man! Each one can shout from his rooftop that he is fighting for a cause , but does that give an excuse to kill anyone on ideological differences? I think not. As for the decision on partition why is the blame for it being laid on Gandhiji alone? When will people learn to see things in their right perspective and own responsibility for the outcome of events!

Yes, history does play a great role in shaping our present and future, so we need to see things in the proper context and not get misled. A lot can be learnt from the past mistakes and the purpose would be served if we learn to avoid repeating same mistakes in the future.

A great topic Aarya, expecting some fireworks here LOL

@ Kul- It is DM so you can freely express your honest opinion. The same goes for your opponents in this thread. Tongue As long as no one gets abusive I dont think there should be any trouble.

I love fireworks. LOL

This is not about killing the innocence as I stated earlier, this is about the principals and beliefs on which the assignation was executed. Did it serve it's purpose?

-Aarya-

Goldie

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1471

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:20am | IP Logged

Originally posted by blue-ice

Sorry Aarya...I don't feel that I am qualified enough to comment on the assassination of one of the greatest leaders who has earned respect...not only in India but the whole world...the only thing that I have in my heart for Gandhiji and all the the great freedom fighters is a sense of gratitude...I know that its because of their combined efforts that I was born in a free India and not as a slave of some Gora Dead

...I believe that with their limited resources whatever decisions they took whether it was wrong or right...it was for the good of India...We are humans and we make mistakes...but for me it is the intention that counts...
I am not judging anyone this is just my opinion...but I think it would be wrong on my part to sit in my AC roon...typing on my laptop...with the news of the world available at my finger tips ...I should be saying what they did was wrong or not without actually knowing what this great leader went through...
My heart will always be filled with hatred for Nathu Ram...may he rot in hell...

Do spill the beans, as I am ready to negotiate with heart vs mind. This is a theoretical discussion, in which all are welcomed, even the ones who rot in hell. :)

Would there have been a civil war if Gandhi did not take the stand on being non-violence?

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Silentsoul,

-Sookie-

Goldie

Joined: 09 January 2009

Posts: 2495

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 10:23am | IP Logged

Originally posted by night13

The concept of Hindu Rashtra was not to create RSS, instead they were who believed in the culture and people of the India, who adopted the India as their motherland, thus a united India. I am sure everyone has their own interpretations to their understanding of HR. Hindu basically denotes the national way of life and believed in united country.

Hindu Rashtra and RSS are two different things. While RSS was the sangh, Hindu rashtra (which was also a newspaper I believe?) was an ideology. Though the literary meaning of the word is exactly what you have mentioned, in colloquial terms, that isn't so. Godse vehemently talked about "Hindus being neglected etc etc"

Gandhi represented free India. And Godse managed to destroy that.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Silentsoul,

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