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return_to_hades

IF-Veteran Member

return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20401

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 7:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by K.Resurrected.

Originally posted by return_to_hades


Yes, it is very difficult to debate with people who have made up their minds. Especially when people have made up their minds that they are right and all those who contradict their righteous opinions or think differently are nothing but ignorant, disrespectful, idiots who are making up bullshit.


Stop being touchy.
Come on be nice to a ladyLOL
Stop being so discriminatory Summer .  The genders on DM are all assumptions. LOL


So Its settled. I'm actually a guy then? Shocked

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-Aarya-

Goldie

-Aarya-

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1613

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

[QUOTE=night13]

Personal opinion is one thing but when one comes to debate it is expected that the person is also  able to understand and address the opponents views! Merely hanging on to ones preconceived notions does not serve any purpose, whatsoever. I would have appreciated it if Godse's supporters had expressed their views for supporting Godse along with something to back up those views but none came out !! So I can only infer that they are simply expressing something they have been hearing repeatedly by people around them without really giving it much thought.

And what sort of argument is this about Gandhi leaving back nothing! Since the time he took up the mission to overthrow the British Rule in India and gain freedom for his country he had been working relentlessly towards it ! what leaving behind of a name are you referring to? Not Nehru's family I hope? Again a case of misplaced grudges! Gandhi's own family continues to lives in oblivion.

And how can you even compare today's politicians to Gandhi?? Confused It is most astonishing  to see that Gandhi is being expected to deliver even long after his death! It was Nehru who took reins of the country after India gained freedom. He was more pragmatic in his approach and considering the changing political scenario in the country after gaining freedom he did well to build up our defence forces. You aren't complaining about that, are you? Building our defense position and economy does not negate or belittle non violence or satyagraha principles of Gandhi. Adaptation is necessary for survival and progress. Gandhi was innovative in his approach and applied it successfully . Excluding a few of his own countrymen, the entire world today remembers him fondly . What have you to say about Godse, if anything at all ??

Not being able to follow someone's footsteps does not mean we have to assassinate that person or even belittle his contributions to our welfare! Isnt it all the more reason to appreciate what that person must have been through to accomplish what he did? Or is it that we even lack the ability to do that! Must we always find some scapegoat to pin the failures of even a miniscule part  of our dreams? Gandhi did what he had to do. Its our turn to achieve whatever dreams still remain unfulfilled!  After all Gandhi  stands  assassinated by a person who was younger, physically more fit and possibly who could have himself lived a longer and more productive life but instead chose to  place  full onus of delivering his dreams on Gandhi, killing him when he was perceived to  have failed!



Angie.. we may again be going in circles Wacko! I had rested my case (on assassination) earlier and brought out a new point for discussion!  I did mention that  I will be leading this topic in to the future, so here we are!

As it's said ... the more things change, the more they remain the same! There will always be discussions around what is right over might and how people's perception never changes.

Did we prove whose ideology (Gandhi vs Godse) was right vs wrong, I see either position with equal ease.  Was there anything to be proven!
Wink


return_to_hades

IF-Veteran Member

return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20401

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 8:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Resurrected.


Originally posted by monar

that said, what are ur views on Gandhi ji's ignorance on Jinnah's 15 years old "two nation theory", how about "Maulana's warning to Gandh ji about the same?"


I admit my ignorance on Gandhi's ignorance on Jinnah's "15 year old two nation theory". If you could provide reliable links on this matter, I could bring myself up to speed.



Actually, you maybe right in your ignorance. The two-nation theory was not Jinnah's and he did not lean towards it until 1936. Jinnah along with Maulana Azad was actually strongly for United India and Hindu-Muslim unity. Even when he left Congress of Muslim League he was part of the pro-Congress faction of the Muslim league.

There were other political occurrences within INC that pushed Jinnah towards the two nation theory and culminated in the final Indo-Pak schism. Part of it was due to Gandhi's ineffectiveness as a political mediator and negotiator, he probably suffered what I would call "nice-guy syndrome" and did not get some of the political occurrences around him. Most of it was due to political ambitiousness of men like Jinnah, Nehru and Ambedkar who though more of themselves and their constituencies rather than India as  whole. [I bring Ambedkar because of Pune pact and its repercussions for INC and Jinnah]

Sarojini Naidu wrote a biography on Jinnah that in some ways shows some of his changing political views in context. Not just Gandhi, but many people were thrown for a loop that a promising, progressive leader like Jinnah ended up delivering the final blows in splitting the nation.

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:33am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by K.Resurrected.

Originally posted by return_to_hades


Yes, it is very difficult to debate with people who have made up their minds. Especially when people have made up their minds that they are right and all those who contradict their righteous opinions or think differently are nothing but ignorant, disrespectful, idiots who are making up bullshit.


Stop being touchy.
Come on be nice to a ladyLOL
Stop being so discriminatory Summer .  The genders on DM are all assumptions. LOL


So Its settled. I'm actually a guy then? Shocked
LOL Actually I had been  referring to my own assumptions in the past. I had to be corrected on more than one occasion. I had your, Souro's, POH, baz and now night13 's gender all wrong. Still finding it difficult to associate the name Aarya to a girl!

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:40am | IP Logged

Originally posted by night13


Angie.. we may again be going in circles Wacko! I had rested my case (on assassination) earlier and brought out a new point for discussion!  I did mention that  I will be leading this topic in to the future, so here we are!

Aarya you brought in a new point for discussion by saying Gandhi hasnt left behind anything other than a name! I expressed my opinion on that.

As it's said ... the more things change, the more they remain the same! There will always be discussions around what is right over might and how people's perception never changes.

Did we prove whose ideology (Gandhi vs Godse) was right vs wrong,
 

Yes we did! Gandhi's supporters came out strongly in support of him whereas there were none who could support their stand regarding "Gandhi deserved to be assassinated and Godse was right in killing him." None at all!

 
I see either position with equal ease. 

I most certainly dont!

Was there anything to be proven! Wink

Dont know if there was anything to be proven but as far as I am concerned it was proved once again that people misplace their grudges and continue with their delusions.

Anyway Aarya, did you get the fireworks you had hoped for? I had expected more but there was little in the way of inflammatory arsenal LOL
 

-Aarya-

Goldie

-Aarya-

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1613

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by K.Resurrected.

Originally posted by return_to_hades


Yes, it is very difficult to debate with people who have made up their minds. Especially when people have made up their minds that they are right and all those who contradict their righteous opinions or think differently are nothing but ignorant, disrespectful, idiots who are making up bullshit.


Stop being touchy.
Come on be nice to a ladyLOL
Stop being so discriminatory Summer .  The genders on DM are all assumptions. LOL


So Its settled. I'm actually a guy then? Shocked
LOL Actually I had been  referring to my own assumptions in the past. I had to be corrected on more than one occasion. I had your, Souro's, POH, baz and now night13 's gender all wrong. Still finding it difficult to associate the name Aarya to a girl!


Ha ha ha.. I am opening a new debate topic on my gender/sex! LOL

-Aarya-

Goldie

-Aarya-

Joined: 02 November 2010

Posts: 1613

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:43am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by night13


Angie.. we may again be going in circles Wacko! I had rested my case (on assassination) earlier and brought out a new point for discussion!  I did mention that  I will be leading this topic in to the future, so here we are!

Aarya you brought in a new point for discussion by saying Gandhi hasnt left behind anything other than a name! I expressed my opinion on that.

As it's said ... the more things change, the more they remain the same! There will always be discussions around what is right over might and how people's perception never changes.

Did we prove whose ideology (Gandhi vs Godse) was right vs wrong,
 

Yes we did! Gandhi's supporters came out strongly in support of him whereas there were none who could support their stand regarding "Gandhi deserved to be assassinated and Godse was right in killing him." None at all!

 
I see either position with equal ease. 

I most certainly dont!

Was there anything to be proven! Wink

Dont know if there was anything to be proven but as far as I am concerned it was proved once again that people misplace their grudges and continue with their delusions.

Anyway Aarya, did you get the fireworks you had hoped for? I had expected more but there was little in the way of inflammatory arsenal LOL
 


I even jumped off the fence to get you some fireworks! LOL

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13

Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by K.Resurrected.

Originally posted by return_to_hades


Yes, it is very difficult to debate with people who have made up their minds. Especially when people have made up their minds that they are right and all those who contradict their righteous opinions or think differently are nothing but ignorant, disrespectful, idiots who are making up bullshit.


Stop being touchy.
Come on be nice to a ladyLOL
Stop being so discriminatory Summer .  The genders on DM are all assumptions. LOL


So Its settled. I'm actually a guy then? Shocked
LOL Actually I had been  referring to my own assumptions in the past. I had to be corrected on more than one occasion. I had your, Souro's, POH, baz and now night13 's gender all wrong. Still finding it difficult to associate the name Aarya to a girl!


Ha ha ha.. I am opening a new debate topic on my gender/sex! LOL

You can do that but I m not going to buy that till I meet a girl in real life named Aarya , so there LOL

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