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The Real Debate! (Page 2)

-Aarya- Goldie
-Aarya-
-Aarya-

Joined: 02 November 2010
Posts: 1624

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 8:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by kuls11

Originally posted by night13

Now that I know how some of you think <really?>, I would like to give you little glimpse on how I think (if you haven't already figured out? LOL). Name is Aarya (as some of you already know!), am a strategist by profession, for which you can guess that I don't do things with out planning or purpose. The earlier topics created by me were merely a base to understand on how everyone processes such topics! As you can see I have a thirst for controversies, for which I am on the fence about everything!Wink  So now that we are familiar with each other, and thank you for the warm welcome in the DM!, let the real debate begin...

***
Let's take a little stroll in the history lane... shall we?
Assassination of Mohandas Gandhi, did he deserve it? Was Godse on the right path?


I can see your strategy coming up with new debatable topic but how much we debate we cant clarify few conspiracies theories of history just put that according to our belief and understanding.

Your belief and understanding is what I am interested in, and not some articles from Google! :)

My answer will lies in my question. Was Gandhi right in going with his Pact with Lord Irwin and allowed execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, Sukhdev.  I am not supporter of Mr. Gandhi you know that. I can state few of my points which are real controversial ones. I think  Nathuram Godse stated his belief in his book, and few of his points were too controversial to state on open forum.

Kul, you know me better than this that I am open for all controversial subjects!



Edited by night13 - 24 May 2011 at 8:50am
Silentsoul IF-Sizzlerz
Silentsoul
Silentsoul

Joined: 29 March 2005
Posts: 16142

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 8:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13




'Its history and nothing is going to change the fact.'... true, but it's the present and future which is and will suffer from the past! So, if an event occurred yesterday should it be restricted from today!

Now that I am going to take a stand <help me GOD! LOL>, I am on the side of Godse as Gandhi systematically fooled the people by saying he will never accept the partition of the country over his dead body, but still the partitioned happened, and thus living in war for many decades and more to come.

Godse had no personal grudges over Gandhi, instead he was fighting for a cause which believed in United India and thus no religions segregation or partition. Godse truly respected Gandhi theory on non-violence but this theory denies self-defence and self-interest. The non-violence that defines the fight for survival as violence is a theory not of non-violence but of self-destruction. Was the decision on partition necessary? To me no individual is greater than a nation!



Godse has problem with Gandhi perception . For me Gandhi Non violience thoery is more poltical agenda than one honest principle which he himself rarely followed in personal life. Many historical document suggested Gandhi was himself a violent men with his own wife (controversial statement) . Gandhi was smart man who knows how to play politics, I feel all his theories from Non Coopreation to Sampoorna Sawraj movement, Champra to dandi march  were politically inspired only to remain as the most prominent name in politics. India would have independent long back. given he didnt played his own politics with Bhagat Singh Execution. Partition went through with Gandhi support. He donated surname to Indra and gifted  whole family legacy to India where only Gandhis rule. Mr Jawahar whom he supported over everyone did his own sets of nonsense for which India is paying on Kashmir.


Edited by kuls11 - 25 May 2011 at 4:55pm
-Sookie- IF-Dazzler
-Sookie-
-Sookie-

Joined: 09 January 2009
Posts: 2518

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13


'Its history and nothing is going to change the fact.'... true, but it's the present and future which is and will suffer from the past! So, if an event occurred yesterday should it be restricted from today!

Now that I am going to take a stand <help me GOD! LOL>, I am on the side of Godse as Gandhi systematically fooled the people by saying he will never accept the partition of the country over his dead body, but still the partitioned happened, and thus living in war for many decades and more to come.

Godse had no personal grudges over Gandhi, instead he was fighting for a cause which believed in United India and thus no religions segregation or partition. Godse truly respected Gandhi theory on non-violence but this theory denies self-defence and self-interest. The non-violence that defines the fight for survival as violence is a theory not of non-violence but of self-destruction. Was the decision on partition necessary? To me no individual is greater than a nation!



True that the past affects us. Unfortunately, it still is. I have seen more than my share of violence during communal riots so I think I understand the situation quite well.

Godse believed more in Hindutva than the concept of United India. Him being a part of ABHM and being an activist there vouches for that. He was against partition because of the riots that had broke out in its wake.
Am not supporting partition here merely refuting your facts on Godse's ideology. Only stating what Godse believed in. He believed in "Hindu Rashtra".
And that is NOT unified India.

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Silentsoul

Silentsoul IF-Sizzlerz
Silentsoul
Silentsoul

Joined: 29 March 2005
Posts: 16142

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:06am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13

Originally posted by kuls11

Originally posted by night13

Now that I know how some of you think <really?>, I would like to give you little glimpse on how I think (if you haven't already figured out? LOL). Name is Aarya (as some of you already know!), am a strategist by profession, for which you can guess that I don't do things with out planning or purpose. The earlier topics created by me were merely a base to understand on how everyone processes such topics! As you can see I have a thirst for controversies, for which I am on the fence about everything!Wink  So now that we are familiar with each other, and thank you for the warm welcome in the DM!, let the real debate begin...

***
Let's take a little stroll in the history lane... shall we?
Assassination of Mohandas Gandhi, did he deserve it? Was Godse on the right path?


I can see your strategy coming up with new debatable topic but how much we debate we cant clarify few conspiracies theories of history just put that according to our belief and understanding.

Your belief and understanding is what I am interested in, and not some articles from Google! :) meaning...See we are talking about human brain not storage hard drive where everything saved years back will be intact even without use. Even with solid notion we need support for our point. And goodle is one click away...so its easy way out

My answer will lies in my question. Was Gandhi right in going with his Pact with Lord Irwin and allowed execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, Sukhdev.  I am not supporter of Mr. Gandhi you know that. I can state few of my points which are real controversial ones. I think  Nathuram Godse stated his belief in his book, and few of his points were too controversial to state on open forum.

Kul, you know me better than this that I am open for all controversial subjects!
I will bash Gandhi upside down come on chat...then and prove what Godse did was right...but my point are too controversial. ...I will be under  scanner on IF outside IF too for spreading hatred against India's great Martyr openly.
 I still carry passport of country where GAndhi legacy rule.



Edited by kuls11 - 24 May 2011 at 9:07am
-Sookie- IF-Dazzler
-Sookie-
-Sookie-

Joined: 09 January 2009
Posts: 2518

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:08am | IP Logged
Originally posted by kuls11



 Mr Jawahar did his own sets of nonsense for which India is paying on Kashmir.


Righto! Not only that, the legacy so deep rooted in the system that its mind boggling.

I had been to this village during last assembly elections in northern Karnataka. That was Indira Gandhi's place of victory (I think post emergency). There villagers started crying when they saw Sonia Gandhi (she visits that village during elections only) due to sheer happiness. Many did not know that Indira Gandhi was long lead. Many said that they will vote for congress because Sonia Gandhi represented Mahatma Gandhi.

This is the state of the people here. Ouch

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Silentsoul

_Angie_ IF-Rockerz
_Angie_
_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008
Posts: 9888

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13

'Its history and nothing is going to change the fact.'... true, but it's the present and future which is and will suffer from the past! So, if an event occurred yesterday should it be restricted from today!

Now that I am going to take a stand <help me GOD! LOL>, I am on the side of Godse as Gandhi systematically fooled the people by saying he will never accept the partition of the country over his dead body, but still the partitioned happened, and thus living in war for many decades and more to come.

Godse had no personal grudges over Gandhi, instead he was fighting for a cause which believed in United India and thus no religions segregation or partition. Godse truly respected Gandhi theory on non-violence but this theory denies self-defence and self-interest. The non-violence that defines the fight for survival as violence is a theory not of non-violence but of self-destruction. Was the decision on partition necessary? To me no individual is greater than a nation!

So finally you jumped the fence LOL I choose to be on the other side of the fence . I do not support Gandhiji's assassination by Godse and gang. If Godse truly respected Gandhiji's principle of non violence his action goes against it! By no stretch of the imagination can a man who believes in non violence kill a defenseless  man! Each one can shout from his rooftop that he is fighting for a cause , but does that give an excuse to kill anyone on ideological differences? I think not. As for the decision on partition why is the blame for it being laid on Gandhiji alone? When will people learn to see things in their right perspective and own responsibility for the outcome of events!

Yes, history does play a great role in shaping our present and future, so we need to see things in the proper context and not get misled. A lot can be learnt from the past mistakes and the purpose would be served if we learn to avoid repeating same mistakes in the future.

A great topic Aarya, expecting some fireworks here LOL

@ Kul- It is DM so you can  freely express your honest opinion. The same goes for your opponents in this thread.Tongue As long as  no one gets abusive I dont think there should be any trouble.

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zorrroSilentsoul

Silentsoul IF-Sizzlerz
Silentsoul
Silentsoul

Joined: 29 March 2005
Posts: 16142

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:36am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Sookie-

Originally posted by kuls11



 Mr Jawahar did his own sets of nonsense for which India is paying on Kashmir.


Righto! Not only that, the legacy so deep rooted in the system that its mind boggling.

I had been to this village during last assembly elections in northern Karnataka. That was Indira Gandhi's place of victory (I think post emergency). There villagers started crying when they saw Sonia Gandhi (she visits that village during elections only) due to sheer happiness. Many did not know that Indira Gandhi was long lead. Many said that they will vote for congress because Sonia Gandhi represented Mahatma Gandhi.

This is the state of the people here. Ouch


I know Sookie...this Gandhi dynasty...is giving me nauseatic feeling nowdays. With Sonia and his son enjoying all good points of Gandhi legacy with Khadhi cotten saaris and byhearted Hindi speech. Than you allow biggest scam of Indian history  thousand lakh crore 2G scam and enjoy Indian money in Swiss accounts. On other hand menka gandhi son enjoys jail sentence for still some rivalry  of past (I dont support him too for his hindutav fanatism speech). I dont know what should we chose in Indian poltics either corrupted Gandhi legacy rule or religiousness orientated others. Left partied are seriously left without any brain.
At the end of day poor Indian are left with this extra corrupted Gandhi dynasty ruling from 70 years.
_Angie_ IF-Rockerz
_Angie_
_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008
Posts: 9888

Posted: 24 May 2011 at 9:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Sookie

True that the past affects us. Unfortunately, it still is. I have seen more than my share of violence during communal riots so I think I understand the situation quite well.

Godse believed more in Hindutva than the concept of United India. Him being a part of ABHM and being an activist there vouches for that. He was against partition because of the riots that had broke out in its wake.
Am not supporting partition here merely refuting your facts on Godse's ideology. Only stating what Godse believed in. He believed in "Hindu Rashtra".
And that is NOT unified India.
What happened during the partition was most barbaric but the partition itself may not have been such a bad idea. The social conditions prevailing at that time were not conducive to a united India thanks to the relentless British policy of Divide and rule supported amply by the religious bigotry and discriminatory attitude that previals in India even today.
If Godse was against partition did he try to get at the bottom of the reasons for it or did it stop at Gandhi's doorstep? 

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zorrro

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