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Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer
Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer

Words we Say...and What we Don't (P.6) (Page 3)

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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
Clap u left me speechless!

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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Wafah



"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"


I like this exchange because Runjhun is again trying to push Guddu away in her hurt. She is disgusted by his actions but for most part she is hurt by his actions. I think Guddu's insecurities come out in this statement the first. It's like questioning Runjhun, why she keeps him at a distance always. Guddu has always sensed the distance Runjhun seems to place between him and herself, and in some way it has always bothered him. So subconsciously I think this voices his insecurity based on if she is his wife, why is there still a emotional distance. He doesn't asks if she's disgusted by him? He instead asks if she fears him, and I think either of them bothers him, which is why he tries to get a rise out of Runjhun rather than her be quiet, because he rather have her fight him, then be disappointed or afraid of him, or disgusted of him. Also when Runjhun responds her voice is full of emotion.

"Inhi haatho se, us sharaab khaane mein, us ladki ko chooa. Aur phir unhi haathon se humein choo rahe hain."

"With these hands, at the drinking bar, you touched that girl. Now with those same hands you're touching me."

Here the fact that Guddu touched another female seems to bother Runjhun the most. I think at some level Runjhun is disgusted, but on a different level the fact that Guddu touched another female (I'm not saying he can't touch females), especially considering the fact that Runjhun has just gotten comfortable to Guddu's touches, emotionally hurts her. Runjhun had said when Guddu touched her that because of Guddu she wouldn't be able to let any man touch her because he'd created an emotional scar on her with his touch. This in parallel to Guddu telling her later that if anyone else but Abhi touches it becomes impure. Of course he's referring to himself but to me it matters to both of them...whether it is a touch of respect, a touch of understanding or a touch of trust...those touches matter





Great post!
I'm going to zero in on the distance and touching part.
Guddu really is putting his selective memory to work when he asks Runjhun,

"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"

     Can he really not think of a single reason Runjhun does not want to be close to him (besides the whole touching the dancer thing that she says later)?!?

     Its both understandable and obvious (to us viewers) that Runjhun still has not forgotten their touches in the past, pre-marriage, however Guddu seems to ignore this part of their history, and this is clearly affecting the rightful evolution of their relationship.

     Another related point, is the fact that Runjhun once again repeated that she is disgusted by him (ghin=???). Now imagine, if somebody like a stranger said that they were disgusted by you, most of us would probably be shocked and suffer at least a tiny bit of self-doubt. Now imagine, if it were by somebody you knew, like say a friend, teacher, or neighbour, you would probably be a lot more effected and very introspective and hurt by this statement. Now, Guddu and Runjhun's relationship is much closer than that, imagine how it would feel when somebody you're supposed to spend your entire life with (and seven junums (spelling???) with) says something like that to you. That they are disgusted by you and can't bear to have you touch them or even near them, imagine at best the frustration and at worst the hurt and the anger and the self-doubt (now compounded by how Guddu remembers Abhigyan and Runjhun's interactions, and how his touch didn't disgust her) that Guddu must now feel.

     When it comes to nearness and touches, Guddu and Runjhun now have to solve two inter-related issues when it comes to closeness between them:

1) The first issue, is their past history of how they interacted with each other pre-marriage, and they must heal Runjhun's fear from being locked in a room together, Runjhun has still not forgotten how this made her feel and the consequences of it.

2) The second issue, is that part of Runjhun's hurt from the locked room incident comes from the fact that she feels that he is "impure" and she still feels this way tbh. Basically she has to stop feeling disgusted by him. She still feels that he is a gunda, and thus, a bad person, morally and ethically, Guddu must find a way to convey to her that while yes, he is rough around the edges, he is not a bad person, after all she still finds a way to accept her dear relatives even for all of the evil they've done. We can see a quick peak into this revelation of Guddu not being that bad of a person, from the incident with the kid and the accident, how heroic and righteous he seemed to Runjhun after that and how she defended him because of it.
 
Okay, yeah, I'm just going to stop now, please forgive my run-on sentencesLOL.

Edit: formatting



Edited by Pleiades - 15 May 2011 at 7:25pm

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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Pleiades

Originally posted by Wafah



"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"


I like this exchange because Runjhun is again trying to push Guddu away in her hurt. She is disgusted by his actions but for most part she is hurt by his actions. I think Guddu's insecurities come out in this statement the first. It's like questioning Runjhun, why she keeps him at a distance always. Guddu has always sensed the distance Runjhun seems to place between him and herself, and in some way it has always bothered him. So subconsciously I think this voices his insecurity based on if she is his wife, why is there still a emotional distance. He doesn't asks if she's disgusted by him? He instead asks if she fears him, and I think either of them bothers him, which is why he tries to get a rise out of Runjhun rather than her be quiet, because he rather have her fight him, then be disappointed or afraid of him, or disgusted of him. Also when Runjhun responds her voice is full of emotion.

"Inhi haatho se, us sharaab khaane mein, us ladki ko chooa. Aur phir unhi haathon se humein choo rahe hain."

"With these hands, at the drinking bar, you touched that girl. Now with those same hands you're touching me."

Here the fact that Guddu touched another female seems to bother Runjhun the most. I think at some level Runjhun is disgusted, but on a different level the fact that Guddu touched another female (I'm not saying he can't touch females), especially considering the fact that Runjhun has just gotten comfortable to Guddu's touches, emotionally hurts her. Runjhun had said when Guddu touched her that because of Guddu she wouldn't be able to let any man touch her because he'd created an emotional scar on her with his touch. This in parallel to Guddu telling her later that if anyone else but Abhi touches it becomes impure. Of course he's referring to himself but to me it matters to both of them...whether it is a touch of respect, a touch of understanding or a touch of trust...those touches matter





Great post!
I'm going to zero in on the distance and touching part.
Guddu really is putting his selective memory to work when he asks Runjhun,

"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"

     Can he really not think of a single reason Runjhun does not want to be close to him (besides the whole touching the dancer thing that she says later)?!?

     Its both understandable and obvious (to us viewers) that Runjhun still has not forgotten their touches in the past, pre-marriage, however Guddu seems to ignore this part of their history, and this is clearly affecting the rightful evolution of their relationship.

     Another related point, is the fact that Runjhun once again repeated that she is disgusted by him (ghin=???). Now imagine, if somebody like a stranger said that they were disgusted by you, most of us would probably be shocked and suffer at least a tiny bit of self-doubt. Now imagine, if it were by somebody you knew, like say a friend, teacher, or neighbour, you would probably be a lot more effected and very introspective and hurt by this statement. Now, Guddu and Runjhun's relationship is much closer than that, imagine how it would feel when somebody you're supposed to spend your entire life with (and seven junums (spelling???) with) says something like that to you. That they are disgusted by you and can't bear to have you touch them or even near them, imagine at best the frustration and at worst the hurt and the anger and the self-doubt (now compounded by how Guddu remembers Abhigyan and Runjhun's interactions, and how his touch didn't disgust her) that Guddu must now feel.

     When it comes to nearness and touches, Guddu and Runjhun now have to solve two inter-related issues when it comes to closeness between them:

1) The first issue, is their past history of how they interacted with each other pre-marriage, and they must heal Runjhun's fear from being locked in a room together, Runjhun has still not forgotten how this made her feel and the consequences of it.

2) The second issue, is that part of Runjhun's hurt from the locked room incident comes from the fact that she feels that he is "impure" and she still feels this way tbh. Basically she has to stop feeling disgusted by him. She still feels that he is a gunda, and thus, a bad person, morally and ethically, Guddu must find a way to convey to her that while yes, he is rough around the edges, he is not a bad person, after all she still finds a way to accept her dear relatives even for all of the evil they've done. We can see a quick peak into this revelation of Guddu not being that bad of a person, from the incident with the kid and the accident, how heroic and righteous he seemed to Runjhun after that and how she defended him because of it.
 
Okay, yeah, I'm just going to stop now, please forgive my run-on sentencesLOL.

Edit: formatting



Awesome Pleiades, welcome to the forum. Please keep posting. I am a newcomer myself.

It is interesting while RJ uses the word hate, Guddu does not repeat that. He picks up on the second word, which is actually a little less offensive "disgust with again the inflection being on the touch." After he marries her, he tells Amma that their relationship will be one of hate. But  he does
not repeat that today

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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
This is another great post Wafah, i am back on the forum after a long time but not for along time...finals has kept me busy..but love dto read this and every thing is so well analyzed...

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 6:13am | IP Logged
Great post Wafah...
 
It is nice to read your translation...Zee translation does not do justice to the dialogue especially reading this post... 
 
Please keep posting...it is a great help for us not Hindi-speakers...
 
Ps...Rani..great additional on Wafah post...


Edited by LoveGuddu - 16 May 2011 at 6:15am

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 10:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Pleiades


Great post!
I'm going to zero in on the distance and touching part.
Guddu really is putting his selective memory to work when he asks Runjhun,

"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"

     Can he really not think of a single reason Runjhun does not want to be close to him (besides the whole touching the dancer thing that she says later)?!?


I think he remembers. I don't think he has selective memory, more so that his understanding or reasoning is faulty. The main reason Guddu touches Runjhun is because she tells him she is disgusted by his touch (her burning the clothes) so the reason he touches her is because he wanted to see what she would do, since she is so disgusted by him.

As for that dialogue, in the recent of times they'd gotten a little more complacent so when he says that dialogue, it's not because he doesn't remember why she wouldn't want to be touched by him but rather he can sense her hesitation. As for the emotional aspect of his first touch on Runjhun, I don't think he could ever truly comprehend as a man what it meant to her. He would read it as fear and disgust, but it was much more than that for Runjhun, especially on an emotional level.

Originally posted by Pleiades


      Another related point, is the fact that Runjhun once again repeated that she is disgusted by him (ghin=???). Now imagine, if somebody like a stranger said that they were disgusted by you, most of us would probably be shocked and suffer at least a tiny bit of self-doubt. Now imagine, if it were by somebody you knew, like say a friend, teacher, or neighbour, you would probably be a lot more effected and very introspective and hurt by this statement. Now, Guddu and Runjhun's relationship is much closer than that, imagine how it would feel when somebody you're supposed to spend your entire life with (and seven junums (spelling???) with) says something like that to you. That they are disgusted by you and can't bear to have you touch them or even near them, imagine at best the frustration and at worst the hurt and the anger and the self-doubt (now compounded by how Guddu remembers Abhigyan and Runjhun's interactions, and how his touch didn't disgust her) that Guddu must now feel.

     When it comes to nearness and touches, Guddu and Runjhun now have to solve two inter-related issues when it comes to closeness between them


Guddu and Runjhun do have to solve issues of closeness between them. They'd become close without addressing these issues, which is why this jarring in sense was needed to make them both realize and evaluate that there are still differences in between them, and issues in between them that need to be resolved.


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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 11:36am | IP Logged
"Tum Dono Giro Padho, ek dusre ke chot par malham lagaao. Yehi zindagi hai."
"You both fall, get hurt, but you both are responsible for picking each other up and putting medicine on those wounds for each other."

It's been said many times in this forum, and myself I have referred to this many times. I've always felt that Guddu and Runjhun are the best medicine for each other to heal their souls. Runjhun's soul has been badgered by her aunts and uncles into submission, into believing that she is a burden and nothing else. My teacher once told me that if you keep telling someone they are stupid long enough, the most intelligent person will eventually start believing it. Runjhun has been badgered into believing that she is a constant burden and her desperate need to make her Amma happy in a some deep down way connects to that too because she doesn't want her Amma to be burdened. Similarly Guddu's soul has been weathered by his surroundings, the constant judgement of him, to the point he'd stopped caring what others think, and he's built his own private fortress. So while Guddu adds spark to Runjhun's soul, Runjhun adds life to Guddu's. They've already begun to heal each other, but there are wounds that they've given each other also, and if they don't clear the air out by themselves those wounds will never heal...and wounds that don't heal will fester.

Which is why it's also important to know the root of the problem as Amma says, because you can treat the symptoms but till you find the root of the symptoms and heal the main disease, the symptoms will keep coming back.

"Kam se kam usse apni shaadi pe aitraaz nahi hoga. Nahi usse tumse door jaane ki takleef hogi. Bas dokha khaane ka malhaal rahega."
"At least she won't have objections to her marriage, nor will she have any difficulty separating from you. All that will remain are the feelings of betrayal.
"

When Runjhun told him all this, Jabbo's smirk and confidence were all gone, in place was a guilty person, who knew very well he'd done something very wrong. I think these words were more powerful than any beating Guddu could have ever given Jabbo. This gives me hope that even though he's a selfish lothario, Jabbo does have a conscience that will bring him to his redemption later on. Also the fact that betrayal is something that stays is important to note for any relationship including Guddu and Runjhun (I'm not saying Runjhun was referring to her relationship at any level, I'm just trying to draw parallels) Their trust is still shaky in each other, on the surface level even though emotionally they've come to rely on each other, and any kind of betrayal to them is very serious. Harking back to Guddu's line that he doesn't stab people in the back, to both Guddu and Runjhun trust is very important on so many levels, and hopefully one day all the misunderstandings in between them is aired so that they can truly learn to trust one another.

I'm sure there are more memorable lines in today's episode but to me these two dialogues stood out the most, in addition to the comparison that Runjhun's mind between the angry fire Guddu and the serene, smiling, light like air Guddu. I don't know what the apparition signified, but to me it played out Runjhun's confusion regarding Guddu in a very effective manner, because she's seen both sides to him.

Also the other scene where Runjhun silently consoles Mahadevi, shaking her head. She knew no words were going to ease the pain and she read Mahadevi's hurt so well in her eyes. Runjhun was able to gauge Mahadevi's emotions much more than her own mum, Mittho, who twists her daughter's behavior to her own significance.




Edited by Wafah - 16 May 2011 at 11:37am

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 11:50am | IP Logged
wafah, these were the two dialogues that stuck to me the most as well...I love amma and runjhuns conversation...it is advice most mothers give to their married daughter...
I also loved runjhuns line to jabbo...it knocked him off his high horse...I hope he comes back to the good side...and if he does, we might see him crashing mahadevis wedding (maybe guddu shukla style?) ...that wud sure wipe off the grin on mittho's face...and it wud be poetic justice...they got runjhun married to a "gunda" and their daughter will marry one too...interesting track for future...but I really hope she got through to him and he is no longer going to try to instigate guddu...

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