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Mahabharat & Bhagvat Portrayal of Krishna (Page 2)

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Rehanism

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Posted: 10 May 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged
Ok  I have edited the videos. I posted them only to show an extract from Gita where Krishna declares his Modus operandi. Plus Nitish Bharadwaj's interview where he speaks about Krishna.

But at least in Mahabharat, nobody other than Bhishma 'knew' that Krishna is divine. Vidura and Drona only guess it, till the Vishwaroop display where they themselves witness His cosmic form while others are blinded by His light.

I dunno about Bhagwad Puran, but in Mahabharata, Pandavas never knew who Krishna was, as Arjun was curious to know his identity in the war. Some argue that Draupadi knew about Krishna's reality and that is why she prayed to Him during vastraharan. But in the original Mahabharata, Draupadi never prays to anyone. Its written that she surrenders herself to Dharma and Dharma saves her honour. There is no mention of Krishna. Krishna creating Sari from behind is a later addition. Krishna's behaviour in Mahabharat (text) is completely different from his behaviour in this series.

Over all I guess that in the Vaishnava Bhakti centric texts, they tried to portray Him openly as God without human limitations. While in Mahabharat, which is largely a Karma Centric text, He has been portrayed on a line between Divinity and Humanity and I find this to be more in line with the purpose of Avatar that Shri Krishna Himself expounded in Gita.

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Rehanism

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Posted: 10 May 2011 at 8:13am | IP Logged
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

I guess that all depends on which source one believes. I believe we can still learn a lot from a God's avatar who proclaims himself to be God, because the discources he gives and the rules he lays out to us are what we should follow. And even when God brings himself down to a common man's level, he is still pretty much perfect because he does not make the same mistakes a common man does or display the same feelings like unrighteous anger, jealousy, pride, etc. Even Shri Krishna was pretty much an ideal man (like Shri Ram was) for Dwapar Yuga's standards, because he was not like the common man. And for me, it's easier to emulate a Godly person than a faulted person, because I don't find it necessary to relate to God's avatars as I do other human beings. Ideal human beings are meant to teach humanity how to live, and if we consider them faulted simply for being humans, what is there to learn from them? That's why I believe even Shri Ram knew he was God. Only thing is, unlike Krishna, he never proclaimed himself to be God so that humanity believed him to be an ordinary man like them...just an ideal one.
 
It all depends on which source one goes by and his/her interpretation of them.Smile

Yeah you are right. Perhaps it depends from person to person.Big smile

But Ram Avatar was in no way perfect. It was very much Human. Ram cried, Ram got angry, got emotional, he was defeated and fainted in battles, he was captured and he displayed limited knowledge and sought others help etc. And I think RS Ramayan portrayed all this very beautifully and without any hesitation.

In case of Krishna, RS tried to show Him more as Vishnu than Krishna. May be because they followed Bhagwad Puran instead of Mahabharat. Its true that Krishna displayed more Godly character than Ram, but He never actually declared Himself as God before public in Mahabharat. But the thing is if God gives us a discourse in his Primeval form, we'll obey it - some out of devotion, others out of fear. But no one will actually learn anything from Him. You can learn something only with practical examples and reasoned criticism. Can you question God the way Arjun questioned Krishna in the battlefield? Krishna implored Arjun to be a Karma Yogi and a Karma Yogi is not a follower, he's an explorer. I don't think a devotee can bother to explore or weigh the truthfulness of God's words. He will follow his God without questioning Him. But Arjun never did that. He kept on questioning and countering Krishna's discourses till he was completely satisfied. It was only after that Krishna revealed His divinity before Arjun.

Otherwise I think the concept of Avatar itself is meaningless. Vishnu can just appear in His original Four Armed form, kill the Adharmis in a second and return to Vaikuntha. But he doesn't do that - he takes human form, behaves like an ordinary human so that others can actually 'learn' something from his practical example. So I think that serial makers should minimize the Godly traits if edutairnment is their motive.

But I also think that there is lot to learn from flawed Human beings as well. Being a Harry Potter fan how can you say that there's nothing to learn from such people?TongueIn fact I think that if we wish to learn, there's lot to learn even from the insects.


Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 10 May 2011 at 11:12am

Rehanism

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Posted: 10 May 2011 at 8:28am | IP Logged
@Lola di---Ravan's case was different from the villains of Dwaparg Yug. Once after Ravan had conquered the Heavens, Vishnu appeared before Ravan and hurled the Sudarshan Chakra at him but Ravan repelled it with a single blow of his arm and Vishnu disappeared. Ravan believed that he had scared Vishnu and from that day Ravan considered himself to be Supreme and he went on to challenge Shiva believing that after defeating Shiva he would be the Lord of the universe. So that is why Ravan never bothered even if people warned him that Ram was Vishnu as he in any case considered himself to be superior to Vishnu.

..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 10 May 2011 at 10:47am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Darklord_Rehan


But I also think that there is lot to learn from flawed Human beings as well. Being a Harry Potter fan how can you say that there's nothing to learn from such people?TongueIn fact I think that if we wish to learn, there's lot to learn even from the insects.
 
I guess that came out wrong.LOL What I meant was that we can learn the good qualities of a human being from ideal characters, and how not to live from the flawed ones. Yeah, there's definitely something to be learnt from every character in a book, whether it is how to live or how not to live, but I was specifically referring to Ram and Krishna when I said there.Blushing
 
Will reply to the rest of your post later on, kind of on a tight schedule right now.

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Debipriya

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Posted: 11 May 2011 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
Oh..You have created a separate thread for this? Good. Now we can discuss with comparisons.

anku-

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Posted: 19 May 2011 at 4:29pm | IP Logged
Yeah, I agree. The Sri Krishna of Ramanand Sagar Sri Krishna was not that good. I don't mean that Sri Krishna of RS didn't act well. He was superb. But the dialouges given to him were so good. But he in his portrayal and acting was amazing.

As far as your last para goes. Your right.  Only few kings and some people would know about Lord Krishna being god. In Gokul and Braj, Lord Krishna never showed that he is god. Infact, after every leela of his he wud do some maya and make the gokulvasi believe that he is not god. Only after he came to Mathura was he known b.w large people that he is god but for Gokulvasis, he was always Nand Baba's child and natkhat Sri Krishna. They always felt there is something but never in a 'purna roop' that yes, he is God. This is verified in Bhagvad ji's 10th chapter's 2nd verse where from little children to eldery's after Goverdhan parvat's puja that he does very big magical leelas but still they are not able to reach a conclusion that he is God. Besides the Rishi munnis, no1 in Gokul and Braj ever came to a conclusion.

Even Pandavs didn't know he was God until Gita ji was recited. And even later, Arjun forgot about Gita ji's Gyan. Its written in Mahabharat ji.


So, yeah, God's divine-ness was known to MANY people but not everyone. It was known to many yet NOT known to many others.


Edited by x.Anku.x - 19 May 2011 at 4:34pm

.Vrish.

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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 9:59pm | IP Logged
Weren't Mahabharat & the Bhagwat Puranas both by Vyasa?  If there are conflicts b/w them, what does that say about Vyasa's credibility?

Rehanism

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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
^^ Vrish ji, do you really think that's true? It's a traditional belief that Vyas wrote/compiled Vedas, Mahabharata and 18 major Puranas. But obviously that has no factual basis.

Different Puranas say different version of same stories, eulogize one God and trivialize all others. Some say Vishnu alone is supreme and others are his subordinate, some Purans say Shiva alone is Supreme and Vishnu and others are his subordinate and so on. Puranas were composed and written over a period of 8-12 centuries, starting from 4th century, by different sectarian believers. They have no connection with the writers of Vedas or Epics.

In fact Puranic culture itself has little to do with Vedic or Epic culture. Vedic culture was a monotheistic culture with formless Supersoul while Puranic was Polytheistic with Supreme God(s) assuming personal forms and Avatars. In Vedas, there were mainly 33 Gods and all were some form/symbolic representation of the elements of nature. While in Puranas, the number is inflated to 33 crores.


Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 27 June 2011 at 11:00pm

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