Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer

   

Who is right in Kalsanwali incident?

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gardes

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gardes

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 10:50am | IP Logged
I think the incident shown today is Runjhun making Guddu aware of what he did to her when she was forced by Kalsanwali and Vishnu Pandey to get an FIR made against him, sending him to jail.  It started a series of awful-to-watch episodes with the engagement to Abhigyan and ending with Abhigyan breaking the engagement and leaving town.  She was forced, he was unaware, he went off the deep end and made her life miserable.
 
I think Rajju Dulhan was right that Runjhun knows Kalsanwali did it...
 
The allegory of the episode is all about understanding of wrong-doing, punishment and/or repentence...  Some things by way of dialogues are very thought provoking.
 
Was Runjhun right in acting and saying what she said to Guddu in Kalsanwali's room?  Would you be as forgiving as her?  What would you have done if you were in Runjhun's place?
 
Was Guddu right in exacting revenege from Kalsanwali for messing up the food?  Was his anger justified?  What would you have done if you were in Guddu's place?
 
Does Kalsanwali deserve punishment?  Are we justified in judging or punishing others?
 
Your thoughts?


Edited by gardes - 25 April 2011 at 10:53am

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Wafah

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 11:20am | IP Logged


Such weighted questions...there is an answer lurking somewhere in me...and I will respond soon, I promise...

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gardes

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 11:43am | IP Logged
Wafah, I wish I had waited and added quotes that got me thinking about today's episode.  The quotes may have made the questions less abstract.  I will add them later.

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 4:31pm | IP Logged
INtresting questions..
i personally feel that what Runjhun did was half correct and half wrong... i honestly do not feel thta she should have asked for forgiveness for wat Guddu did or even defend them so much but than i really agree with what she said to Guddu
u could tell by Runjhuns eyes that Guddu screaming at her like that over the food really did hurt her..plus it was the second time... just a day ago he blamed her for the whole mandir fiasco... i think runjhun just stopped him to make him realize that he cant put the whole blame on Kalsonwali because he is at fault just as much in my opinion for judging Runjhun so fast all the time. Also i felt like the way she was acting was mostly because of her challenge. Part of being a "good husband" is learning to forgive and keep the arrogance level a bit down. as for whether he has the righth to punish .. i think he should have punished himself first by regretting wat he did before trying to change others... still i wont lie that i really enjoyed watching Guddu punish K for Runjhun... however unjustified it mite be, i found it really cute to see him standing up for R like that... atleast we can see that he cares for her that much
as for runjhun... i wouldnt be as forgiving as her at all... she is alrite stopping Guddu from punihsing them but she should punish them herself for once and get bak at them instead of saying sorry!

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
Okay I'm back and I will answer this to the best of my understanding...


Was Runjhun right in acting and saying what she said to Guddu in Kalsanwali's room?  Would you be as forgiving as her?  What would you have done if you were in Runjhun's place?

Runjhun says to Guddu that what Vishnu and Kalsanwali did, didn't hurt her, but what Guddu did hurt her. In my opinion she was right in acting the way she did. She's not trying to be mahaan or anything. I think the saying "teaching the man to fish is better than giving him a fish" is sort of apt here. I think she wants Guddu to be able to come on his own that there are consequences to his actions that every one can be held accountable for their actions. If he exacts revenge it's good and done. Then what. Revenge is a vicious cycle, as much as some people might consider it satisfying. I mean it started a whole chain of events between them back and forth. She wants Guddu to not respond to his impulses but rather take the time to think before he acts. Her feelings for the man aside she is trying to make him a good man. He can't be that if he acts as he wishes and thinks that revenge is the best measure and answer to everything. Sometimes fire with fire isn't the answer.
Also he never apologized to her for what he did, nor did he admit to her that he was wrong, even though he made the tonic for her. He knew what Kalsanwali had done, but even as he was giving her the tonic he didn't say I got it wrong. What's the point of putting medicine on the wound if you're going to hurt the person again the next time.
 
Was Guddu right in exacting revenege from Kalsanwali for messing up the food?  Was his anger justified?  What would you have done if you were in Guddu's place?

His anger is justified. She tampered with his food after all. I probably would have mixed spices in her food too...tricked her into eating some spicy food. LOL Just kidding. But like Runjhun said he was angry at Kalsanwali, that's fine. But if he'd held himself accountable for his own wrong doings, then maybe he could have gone around judging other people. The Kabir doha "Bura Jo Dekhan Main Chala, Bura Naa Milya Koye Jo Munn Khoja Apnaa, To Mujhse Bura Naa Koye" is apt here...or the other saying people with glass houses can't throw stones at other people's houses. He was justified but that didn't make it completely right for him to do, because he was wrong too. Runjhun is unaffected by Kalsanwali and Vishnu's actions, to her what Guddu does matter most. She has no problem when strength is used at the right time for the right reasons, like she told to the people who came for the proposal. She told Guddu that she will stand by his side (be it duty bound or for any other reason) and she expects the same out of him, and not be swayed in by emotions of anger and revenge that would cloud his judgement. He has to trust her, which he doesn't seem to yet. Trust is part logic and part emotion, in some ways.
 
Does Kalsanwali deserve punishment?  Are we justified in judging or punishing others?

Kalsanwali deserves punishment, but I don't think we're ever justified in judging others, even though sometimes we do it subconsciously, and are most all guilty of it. Punishing depends on the situation. It can be justified again that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do. Besides justified or not, I've found that sometimes people tend to punish themselves all on their own without having to do anything, they manage to self sabotage themselves without you having to waste any effort.
 
That's all from my brain...

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rani2007

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 5:52pm | IP Logged
My thoughts match up well with Wafah here so I'll try not to repeat stuff.

The main thing I was about to talk about is whether Guddu's anger is justified.  I think we're supposed to assume that Guddu is mad because Kalsonwali messed with his food.  I really don't think that's the reason behind his anger.  If you recall, when Guddu overheard Kalsonwali telling Vishnu about how she was the culprit, the first thing he reacted too was the statement that she was doing something to destroy Runjhun and Guddu's relationship.  Maybe Guddu thinks he is acting out against the food tampering but I think he's really angry about the fact that Kalsonwali tried to create a rift between him and Runjhun AND the fact that she basically succeeded.  Because of Kalsonwali, Guddu yelled at Runjhun and made her eat spicy food - and really hurt her emotionally.  Kalsonwali didn't make him do these things but he can blame her for it.  I think that's why he was so angry and tried to exact specific revenge from them instead of just creating a scene in front of everybody. (and that to me is justified)

 I wonder if Runjhun would feel differently is she knew kalsonwali was trying to create a rift between Guddu and Runjhun?  I wonder if she would have acted differently knowing this?  She wouldn't want Guddu to punish the m&ms but she may not have argued with him as much.

Wafah noted that Guddu never apologized to Runjhun or admitted he was wrong to her though he did admit to himself that he shouldn't have yelled at her. I think this is an important point - maybe this is why Runjhun said that Guddu made a mistake as well and can he punish himself because it seemed like he was ignoring that the fact that he had made a mistake in blaming Runjhun.


Edited by rani2007 - 25 April 2011 at 5:52pm

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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by rani2007

My thoughts match up well with Wafah here so I'll try not to repeat stuff.

The main thing I was about to talk about is whether Guddu's anger is justified.  I think we're supposed to assume that Guddu is mad because Kalsonwali messed with his food.  I really don't think that's the reason behind his anger.  If you recall, when Guddu overheard Kalsonwali telling Vishnu about how she was the culprit, the first thing he reacted too was the statement that she was doing something to destroy Runjhun and Guddu's relationship.  Maybe Guddu thinks he is acting out against the food tampering but I think he's really angry about the fact that Kalsonwali tried to create a rift between him and Runjhun AND the fact that she basically succeeded.  Because of Kalsonwali, Guddu yelled at Runjhun and made her eat spicy food - and really hurt her emotionally.  Kalsonwali didn't make him do these things but he can blame her for it.  I think that's why he was so angry and tried to exact specific revenge from them instead of just creating a scene in front of everybody. (and that to me is justified)

 I wonder if Runjhun would feel differently is she knew kalsonwali was trying to create a rift between Guddu and Runjhun?  I wonder if she would have acted differently knowing this?  She wouldn't want Guddu to punish the m&ms but she may not have argued with him as much.

Wafah noted that Guddu never apologized to Runjhun or admitted he was wrong to her though he did admit to himself that he shouldn't have yelled at her. I think this is an important point - maybe this is why Runjhun said that Guddu made a mistake as well and can he punish himself because it seemed like he was ignoring that the fact that he had made a mistake in blaming Runjhun.

Rani,
@bold: That is a very important point. The anger in him at a subconscious level was due to that fact. I use the word subconscious because I do not see it on the surface. On the surface when he justifies his action, he doesn't say that to Runjhun. All he says is - "are you aware of the fact that she is the one who messed the food?". A lot of times it happens to us too .. we would be fighting for a reason and we will not be able to put the reason out there properly.

As a side note - But for the people who go by word-to-word might say that, @bold, is like "seeing" too much into something said. (Bcos he doesn't really say it).

Wafah & Rani: 
I agree to everything you both said, except @pink. I disagree on that. I had addressed that part in my comments in today's WU's Point #1 - http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1669271&PID=41854384&#41854384



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Posted: 25 April 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
very good insights from everyone so far.  in my opinion, in matters of love and relationships, there is no black and white side.  it's always shades of gray.  we understand why guddu punished kalsanwali.  as rani had pointed out, guddu is angry more at the fact that kalsanwali was trying to put a wedge between him and runjhun. 

i believe, however, that even if runjhun had known about the fact that kalsanwali (and the other mammas and mamis) were all trying to break her and guddu apart, she would still feel the same way about the situation.  i think that she is still right in saying that guddu hurt her more.  we must never forget that kalsanwali was acting the way she is supposed to act, based on her character.  also, runjhun does not have any emotional connection to kalsanwali, despit the fact that she is family.  runjhun has come to accept that her family, minus her amma, did not, does not, and will not treat her well. 

but with guddu, it is a different story.  what guddu did hurt her more because, as what has already been established in previous weeks, the two are already trying to establish a relationship as husband and wife (well, sort of).  even if they are trying to do so for the bet, or for their ammas, or whatever, they are still trying to be husband and wife (minus the physical part).  and one of the things necessary in a relationship is TRUST. 

guddu, two times in a row, has already shown that he does not trust runjhun.  he can easily be swayed to believe that runjhun has done him wrong.  maybe, it was also because of their past.  but things are different already.  runjhun got hurt by guddu more because, after she told guddu, in effect, to trust her more, he again thinks ill of her.  and  that after she lovingly prepared the food that was (unfortunately) sabotaged by kalsanwali.

if you ask me, when runjhun told guddu that he was wrong too, it was not really very objective on her part.  i don't know,  maybe i'm speaking as a married woman, but most of the time, when one relates with a spouse, you tend to base your actions on your emotions.  runjhun does not have any emotional connection with her mammas and mamis, but i think that she is already having emotional connections with guddu.  guddu punished her for something that she did not do.  FEELINGS HURT.  guddu wants to exact revenge the kalsanwali for trying to break them up.  HARD CORE EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.  runjhun tells guddu he hurt her more, even if guddu explains kalsanwali's wrong doing.  BIG TIME EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IF YOU ASK ME. 

which bring me to... runjhun is changing.  remember, once upon a time, guddu says that she has no soul.  well, right now, runjhun is being SOULFUL, and with that i mean that she is getting in touch with her emotions more.  and all her emotions are inspired by guddu.  fear, hurt, anger, betrayed... ONLY GUDDU can affect emotions on her. 


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