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|| Mythological Masti :: Doubts & Discussions || (Page 8)

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lola610

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lola610

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Posted: 23 July 2011 at 11:40pm | IP Logged
^^ Tough question! I would've 2nd'ed Rehan only because "kand" can be translated as incident... but then Vrish throws the curveball Geek is it relevant that there are more sargas in a kand than there are adhyayas in each parv? No? Didn't think so... sorry Pinch

An unrelated question... The Bhagavat tells us that Kans was the reincarnation of Kaalnemi, who Vishnu defeated during the Devasur Sangram. the Padma Puraan elaborates on that by telling us how Kaalnemi inspired Kuber's servant Gobhil to deceive Ugrasen's wife Padmavati and bring about his reincarnation. My question - is there any relationship between this Kaalnemi and the one Hanuman defeated while getting Lakshman the sanjeevani, or was it just a popular raakshas name?

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 24 July 2011 at 2:37am | IP Logged
It was probably a popular rakshasha name, since Ugrasena didn't exist in the Treta Yuga Geek  Unless the Padmavati they're talking about here is the one that Shurpanakha was said to be re-incarnated from.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 24 July 2011 at 4:02pm | IP Logged
Next question: I've noticed that Durvasa's name ain't amongst the immortals.  Anyone knows when and the circumstances in which he died?

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Posted: 26 July 2011 at 5:01pm | IP Logged

No, both Kaalnemi's weren't the same. Ravan's Kaalnemi was just a normal, everyday rakshasa that was meant to simply impede Hanuman's path, while the Kaalnemi Kans was said to be an avatar of was much stronger and more dangerous.

 
 
As for Durvasa, I have no idea.

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lola610

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Posted: 26 July 2011 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Vrish_

It was probably a popular rakshasha name, since Ugrasena didn't exist in the Treta Yuga Geek  Unless the Padmavati they're talking about here is the one that Shurpanakha was said to be re-incarnated from.


Probably not. Even Padmavati sounds like a common enough name for back in the day LOL Ugrasen wouldn't have had to be around for it to be the same guy, since it was after dying in the devaasur sangraam that he's supposed to have haunted this Gobhil into fathering his reincarnation. But like, it would still be complicated. Shukracharya would've had to revive him as he did with Bali, and he would've had to last until Ram Avtaar.

Which brings me to my next question(s): the Devaasur Sangraam started when Mohini's purpose was revealed, and lasted long enough for important Treta figures like Muchkand, Jambvant, and Dashrath to participate. There are different accounts of this conflict in every puraan, all of them make references to different familiar names (the ones I mentioned above and presumably more)... sooo... can whoever knows any info on/stories from the Devasur Sangram please share them here? Or if there are enough of them, in a thread of their own? Thank yous!

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Posted: 26 July 2011 at 8:11pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Vrish_

Next question: I've noticed that Durvasa's name ain't amongst the immortals.  Anyone knows when and the circumstances in which he died?


Brace yourself... it seems he's still here Stern Smile Bhagavat gives the Ambarish story in Skand 9, Adhyay 5, towards the end of which it implies that Durvasa is indeed immortal, and ventures between here and Brahmalok at will. But he mellowed out because that story had such a happy ending. I think (hope?).

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Posted: 27 July 2011 at 5:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lola610

Which brings me to my next question(s): the Devaasur Sangraam started when Mohini's purpose was revealed, and lasted long enough for important Treta figures like Muchkand, Jambvant, and Dashrath to participate. There are different accounts of this conflict in every puraan, all of them make references to different familiar names (the ones I mentioned above and presumably more)... sooo... can whoever knows any info on/stories from the Devasur Sangram please share them here? Or if there are enough of them, in a thread of their own? Thank yous!
Ah, finally some serious Rakshashology (study of Rakshashas, or, if you prefer, Asuralogy) work on!!! LOLClap
 
I once in the Ramayan forum asked about the differences b/w Asuras & Rakshashas, other than the former being sons of Diti.  Vritra, Rahu, Ketu, Shambarasura, Hiranyaksha, Hiranyakashipu, Narakasura were some of the asuras, while Ravan, Kumbhakarna, Indrajit, Hidimba, Kirmira, Bakasura, Alambusha and Ghatotkacha were rakshashas.  So were they all the same group of beings, and would events, like Ravan's conquests, be considered a part of the Devasura sangram?
 
Was the Devasura sangram a series of wars like the Crusades, or were they used to describe just some of the wars that the Devas fought the asuras?  B'cos thinking about it, here are some of the wars that took place (not necessarily in chronological order):
  • Kurma avatar war, where Rahu-Ketu were beheaded and the Asuras routed
  • Surapadman's war against the Devas, which resulted in him & his brothers being killed by Kartikeya
  • Indras war against Vritra
  • Hiranyakashipu's war of revenge against the Devas for the killing of Hiranyaksha
  • Bali's war of revenge against the Devas for the killing of Virochan
  • Muchkund's support of the Devas against the asuras (who was ruling the asuras then?)
  • Dasharath's war against Shambara
  • Kush's war against Durjaya (resulted in the deaths of both)
  • Narakasura's conquests, and death @ Krishna's hands
  • Banasura???  Did he conquer the Devas?
  • Any others I forgot/overlooked?  Do Ravan's wars w/ Indra count?

I think a new thread about the Devasura sangram would be good.  But specify in it whether Rakshashas are included or not, so that there is no confusion.  We can't have Rakshashas being mistaken for Asuras, or vice versa SillyEvil SmileLOL

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Posted: 27 July 2011 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
Actually, in Rig Veda and most other Vedic texts, Asura need not mean bad guys or enemies of Devas. They were just not 'Suras' or the dwellers of Upper space/Heaven. Heaven was ruled by 11 Gods (a mixed group from Adityas, Vasus, Rudras etc), headed by Indra. Varuna, another Aditya was classified as an Asura, but he was not evil. He had most cordial relations with Indra, Agni, Visnu, Bhaga  etc..And similarly Surya, Rudra, Aryaman, Mitra etc were Asuras as well as they didn't dwell in the heaven.

No such racial fight between Suras and Asuras is seen in Vedas except for Indra's fight with Vrita. Another dispute between Suras and Asuras regarding celestial land was mentioned. To settle the dispute, Indra summoned his youngest brother Visnu aka Upendra. Visnu, wittiest of all Adityas, expanded his size and measured three pieces of land in three steps and it was divided among the Asuras and Suras and Rishis. This story was later turned into the Vaman Avatar in a completely different context in Purans.

Its probably in the Itihas and the Puranas, that Devas and Asuras were branded as enemy races and Asuras earned a demonic identity.

Rakshasas and Daityas have no mention prior to Ithihas or may be Puranas, as far as I know. But Rakshasas too, as per Ramayana and Mahabharata, need not be demonic. They were actually races of Sorcerers and adept in the art of Maya.

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