|| Mythological Masti :: Doubts & Discussions || (Page 15)

Nandiniraizaada

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Joined: 23 October 2010

Posts: 20940

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 3:46am | IP Logged

Originally posted by NandiniPS

I was watching devo ke dev Mahadev today for the first time

It is shown that Sati devi is celebrationg Tulsi Shaligraam wedding

But as far as I know Tulsi shaligram story has happened after Shiv Parvati vivah

As Jalhandar (Vrinda AKA Tulsi's husband) wanted to marry Parvati and hence a fight broke out between Shiv and Jalhandar . The fight was not getting to a conclusion and hence Parrvati summoned Sre Vishnu and sought his help

Please help clarify this

here is a verse from sree Vishnu Chalisaa

Check this link for Vishnu chalisaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nb0Rohg2HI

at 5.43

no body answered me

.Vrish.

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Joined: 25 October 2008

Posts: 14410

Posted: 12 February 2012 at 7:33am | IP Logged

Shivang

I took the liberty of smuggling your question here

Originally posted by ShivangBuch

Hmm. Not just RSR or ASR, but all google search results say that Prahast was killed by Lakshman including Wiki. It is very interesting to see that RSR had such tremendous impact on internet contents then. In RCM, there is no specific mention of Prahast killed by Lakshman and yet Wiki (Prahast) mentions that the source is RCM. I think there must be some source since RSR has showed it and RSji specifically mentioned in his commentary appearance that there is no event in the serial which is such he may have taken and is outside 6 or 7 major Ramayan sources mentioned in the title. So it can't be fictional though sources themselves might contradict. However, it's the responsibility of person giving the answer to come up with the source.

It was very good question btw. TOUGH one. We got to know about many unknown names of Ramayan. Ab lage hathon Khar-Dushan, Kumbhkarna aur Vibhishan ki wives ke naam aur Mandodari ki cowives ke naam bhi likh hi dete. Wo kyun baki rakha?

And my question to all is (nothing related to actual answer logic but previous alternative answers) that "Was Kans Asur or Yadav or both? His birth and previous birth did have a history I know as shown in SK but how would you classify?" Similarly Ravan. "Asur/Rakshas or Brahmin or Both?" How can one be both? OK one can be Yadav being Yaduvanshi but then he was human after all. Ok one can be Rakshas and human both (not demon of Paataal as per mythological stories) but if Ravan was Rakshas by Karma (or protector or king of Rakshas), why would Ram be affected by Brahmhatyadosham (when he never followed Brahman dharma)? There is a specific old thread for this last question. I mean how can he be both Rakshas and yet Brahman simultaneously at the same time? Rakshas Brahmin? Any human not following Vedas (Whether Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra) is Rakshas. That way? I am not expecting a discussion or debate over here but just the answer or opinion in single sentence without further question or argument from my side.

On Prahasta, Urmila is right! He was killed by Neela, not by Lakshman. The other boo-boo in RSR was Prahasta being Ravana's son - he wasn't, he was Ravan's uncle!!! He was actually the son of Malyavan, so the scenes of Mandodari crying over him in ASR was rather strange.

On Ravan's antecedants, he was a Brahmin by birth, but due to Vishwaroop's curse on Kaikesi for approaching him for her erotainment @ the wrong time, he & Kumbhakarna were born Rakshashas, but due to her pleas, Vibheeshan was not one. Which is why the exchanges b/w Vibheeshan & Indrajit in both RSR and ASR were strange. Vibheeshan was technically right that they were descendants of Pulayasta, but Indrajit too was right that they were Rakshashas, but he happened to be wrong about Vibhishan.

Incidentally, there is an interesting thread in the Ramayan forum about what % rakshasha Ravana, Indrajit and a few other major Rakshashas were. It was a funny read, when one realizes that Prahlad was more of a Rakshasha than Ravan, and Indrajit was a very diluted Rakshasha LOL

Read about it here

How much of a Rakshasa was Ravana?

On Kansa, however, I don't think that a case can be made that he was a demon. Yeah, his behavior was unarguably vile, but that's not what it takes to become a demon (not in Hindu mythology anyway). While Vibheeshan was not a Rakshasha, Prahlad and his descendants were definitely asuras, and Prahlad even fought his share of wars against Indra, w/o being evil, as did Virochan and Bali. It's true that Jaya & Vijaya were cursed, but that curse only stated that they'd be enemies of Vishnu, not that they'd be demons. Of course, the Dwapar Yuga versions of them were Sishupala and Dantavatra, but I've read some versions that had it as Kansa & Sishupala. Incidentally, if the Hiranya bros & Ravan/Kumbhakarna were indeed dreaded demons, Sishupala & Dantavatra were really wussy villains in comparison ROFL

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ShivangBuch, Radhikerani,

ShivangBuch

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Joined: 31 August 2009

Posts: 1008

Posted: 12 February 2012 at 10:01am | IP Logged

Originally posted by .Vrish.

Shivang

I took the liberty of smuggling your question here

Originally posted by ShivangBuch

Hmm. Not just RSR or ASR, but all google search results say that Prahast was killed by Lakshman including Wiki. It is very interesting to see that RSR had such tremendous impact on internet contents then. In RCM, there is no specific mention of Prahast killed by Lakshman and yet Wiki (Prahast) mentions that the source is RCM. I think there must be some source since RSR has showed it and RSji specifically mentioned in his commentary appearance that there is no event in the serial which is such he may have taken and is outside 6 or 7 major Ramayan sources mentioned in the title. So it can't be fictional though sources themselves might contradict. However, it's the responsibility of person giving the answer to come up with the source.

It was very good question btw. TOUGH one. We got to know about many unknown names of Ramayan. Ab lage hathon Khar-Dushan, Kumbhkarna aur Vibhishan ki wives ke naam aur Mandodari ki cowives ke naam bhi likh hi dete. Wo kyun baki rakha?

And my question to all is (nothing related to actual answer logic but previous alternative answers) that "Was Kans Asur or Yadav or both? His birth and previous birth did have a history I know as shown in SK but how would you classify?" Similarly Ravan. "Asur/Rakshas or Brahmin or Both?" How can one be both? OK one can be Yadav being Yaduvanshi but then he was human after all. Ok one can be Rakshas and human both (not demon of Paataal as per mythological stories) but if Ravan was Rakshas by Karma (or protector or king of Rakshas), why would Ram be affected by Brahmhatyadosham (when he never followed Brahman dharma)? There is a specific old thread for this last question. I mean how can he be both Rakshas and yet Brahman simultaneously at the same time? Rakshas Brahmin? Any human not following Vedas (Whether Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra) is Rakshas. That way? I am not expecting a discussion or debate over here but just the answer or opinion in single sentence without further question or argument from my side.

On Prahasta, Urmila is right! He was killed by Neela, not by Lakshman. The other boo-boo in RSR was Prahasta being Ravana's son - he wasn't, he was Ravan's uncle!!! He was actually the son of Malyavan, so the scenes of Mandodari crying over him in ASR was rather strange.

Oh no Vrish. No boo boo. RSR is very accurate and didn't have any fictional event as per RSji's personal assurance. It is upto us to find out the exact source for each scene and he has mentioned about his sources (after Nagpash episode). There was nothing fictional IMO but only compilation of 6-7 Ramayan popular sources mentioned in the title and first episode of Ramayan. RSji never said that he produced Valmiki Ramayan. And that wasn't compulsory need either. He produced Ramayan. Prahast was Ravan's son as per RCM (He was his uncle as per VR - Moreover it is not impossible that there were two Prahast with same name - Harmonizing justification of two contradicting basic sources - one Ravan's uncle and one Ravan's son since grandson was also given the name of his Poorvaj as we know from the names Janmejay, Parikshit and Dhritarashtra in which earlier ones had the reverse relationship). So the bottom line is that the event and relationship Dr RS dada covered did have a reference or base. There is no mention in RCM about who killed Prahast (at least I couldn't find but Semanti might be knowing) and if Lakshman killing Prahast is shown, then that must have been there in some Ramayan of South (Had it been in Kritivas then also Semanti would have been knowing it).

http://hindi.webdunia.com/religion/religion/hindu/ramcharitmanas/LankaKand/4.htm

About Kans I also believe that he can't be called demon you are right. But strange enough fact is that he had friendship with demons (Banasur) and control over demons (Aghasur-Bakasur-Putna) and had the physical strength to throw away an elephant. Shocked

P.S.

Superb link that genetic analysis one. Clap

However, in Meghnad's case, Mandodari's genetics are calculated from just her previous generation but it is taken for granted that May danav was 100% Danav. What is the exact difference between Danav, Asur and Rakshas? Interestingly in Meghnad's genetics, Danav and Rakshas % are separately mentioned (apart from he being an Apsara partially LOL

which is basically a mixture of Devta - heavenly - and Gandharva - dancer only).

Edited by ShivangBuch - 12 February 2012 at 10:55am

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.Vrish.,

.Vrish.

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Joined: 25 October 2008

Posts: 14410

Posted: 21 February 2012 at 12:50pm | IP Logged

Very briefly, the difference b/w Rakshashas, Asuras & Danavs were their origins. Asuras were the sons of Diti and included Hiranyaksha & Hiranyakashipu. Danavs were sons of some other wife of either Kashyap or one of the Saptarshis, but were distinguished from their maternal side (like Kadru being the mother of the dog species). Same goes for Rakshashas.

E.g. You will notice that Ravana, Ghatotkacha were not described as asuras, while Bali, Prahlad, et al were not described as rakshashas. And Maya - the father of Mandodari - was never described as either - he was a danav.

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JanakiRaghunath

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Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 36543

Posted: 03 March 2012 at 2:18pm | IP Logged

Hey guys,

I opened a new thread in the forum and would really appreciate your input. :)

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2822532

JanakiRaghunath

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Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 36543

Posted: 03 March 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by .Vrish.

On Prahasta, Urmila is right! He was killed by Neela, not by Lakshman. The other boo-boo in RSR was Prahasta being Ravana's son - he wasn't, he was Ravan's uncle!!! He was actually the son of Malyavan, so the scenes of Mandodari crying over him in ASR was rather strange.

Was Malyavan the father of Mandodari? If so, her crying over him would not be so strange. Or was Mandodari's father Maya or something? I heard that they were the same.

Also, Kamsa was a rakshasa by birth, not just by deeds, because he was not the biological son of Ugrasena. The Bhagavat Purana mentions that a demon by the name of Kalanemi was overcome with the beauty of Ugrasena's wife and had taken the form of Ugrasena to seduce his wife. Kamsa was a result of that union and this was known only to Ugrasena through his Guru, how knew about everything.

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winnerasha

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Joined: 28 July 2008

Posts: 462

Posted: 05 April 2012 at 12:31pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

Originally posted by .Vrish.

On Prahasta, Urmila is right! He was killed by Neela, not by Lakshman. The other boo-boo in RSR was Prahasta being Ravana's son - he wasn't, he was Ravan's uncle!!! He was actually the son of Malyavan, so the scenes of Mandodari crying over him in ASR was rather strange.

Was Malyavan the father of Mandodari? If so, her crying over him would not be so strange. Or was Mandodari's father Maya or something? I heard that they were the same

.

I think Malyavan was Ravana's maternal grandfather ( I think he was Sumali's brother)

But, I'm not sure as to how he was related to Mandodari...

-Asha

Edited by winnerasha - 05 April 2012 at 12:32pm

Vibhishna

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Joined: 08 January 2009

Posts: 1909

Posted: 24 May 2012 at 9:56am | IP Logged

Some discussions in DkDM reminded me of this question a friend of mine asked me long ago. I haven't been able to answer it till now. Since its not on Lord Shiva, I'm posting it here.

The question was:

In some legends, Lord Shiva created Lord Vishnu who inturn created Lord Brahma. Lord Brahma is supposed to be the youngest of the Trinity - why does he look the oldest among the three?

I had no idea (still have no idea) how to answer this...

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.Vrish.,

Page 15 of 28

Posted: 01 February 2012 at 3:46am | IP Logged

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Posted: 12 February 2012 at 10:01am | IP Logged

Posted: 21 February 2012 at 12:50pm | IP Logged

Posted: 03 March 2012 at 2:18pm | IP Logged

Posted: 03 March 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged

Posted: 05 April 2012 at 12:31pm | IP Logged

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