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Kool's Commentary : March 16 (Page 14)

koolsadhu1000 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 17 March 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged
Do u think so di? Yes Vandu wld take good care of her aai no doubt abt tat bt She will also do d same archu jaap as damodar does. Her constant vaini vaini jaap irritates me as well. Remember she came to savita abt this Arman issue n gave a lecture abt shaadi n i thnk shikhar pointed out tat first she shld look at her own marriage n den give a speech on it!

Yes . I too hadn't liked that she constantly threw Archna in Shravnis face ...........it was VERY unfair to Shravni who was doing her best to be a good bahu at that time .Both Damodar and Vandu behaved badly with her .

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Posted: 17 March 2011 at 9:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by --Hope--

Originally posted by naava



manav didn't reject his mom kools...that's a silly thing to say...Wink. i have often wondered tho why Savita doesn't care about Vandu at all......focused only on manav......something to ponder.

i liked your commentary alot though...i agree that Savita meant what she said..she wants to be left alone, she has removed herself and is in deep depression...but family is usually the last to recognize that and continue the games of combat...and blame...usually self blame on the part of the others...



naava,

I read this part and was a little curious to understand your POV better.

I share Kools views on the Savita-Manav relationship. 

Generally speaking, I am all for husbands protecting their spouses from abusive MILs and while I admit that Savita's hatred towards Archana is extreme, I cannot say that it is entirely unwarranted.  Frustration and hatred are not rational emotions that can be fairly targeted. In this case Archana is the K's collateral damage for their constant interference in the D's lives.

My sympathies totally lay with Archana when Savita was abusing her mentally, emotionally and physically and I was very disappointed with Manav when he did not protect her during the times he was aware of (if not as a spouse then atleast as one human to another). 

Currently, while I am very intolerant of Archana in general (becasue I have never seen a more blonde Indian before her) I do not believe she is deserving of most of Savita's wrath (maybe some frustrations for her revolving decisions). I believe the entire K family is more deserving of Savita's wrath.

What disappoints me in Manav is that despite his well timed statements and token gestures, his overall behaviour indicates he has given up on Savita.  He has chosen to hold his wife's family in higher regard (in the hope of gaining brown points with his wife unconciously) than in respecting his relationship with his mother. 

then I read this statement of yours

manav didn't reject his mom kools...that's a silly thing to say...Wink.

and I got honestly curious.

If you think his behaviour to date is not a rejection of her (you being a mother yourself and so able to relate) then what would he need to do - for you to think he has rejected her in an obvious way?

Pardon me, my intent is not to argue or bash but to really understand. I have ready many posts on this forum condemning Savita and empathising and praising Manav and yours was one of the three of this opinion (that I can think of) that did not have a malicious or provocative undertone and I thought it would be safe to ask you this without inviting WWIII on myself.

If you choose not to respond, I will understand thank you.

Hope



Hi Hope...i would be very happy to respond to you and will try to do so sometime today.  No, you won't be inviting WWIII upon yourself...LOL  i will try to provide a thoughtful answer.  Embarrassed  This is a very complex issue and one that really touches the hearts of most of us on this forum...& all of us assess this situation, like everything else in life from our own personal experiences.  I know i do because of my own similar experiences...however i also have worked in fields of social work and counseling and even more than my own experiences i am looking at from that perspective....i have to also add i am not Indian so do not have the cultural history of family dynamics in Hindu or Indian culture....  i am only looking at it from a perspective of dysfunctional families and mental and emotional health...      

Right now i am up to my eyeballs in things to do, and evening approaches...and i have much unfinished business !!....so hopefully later tonight i will have the chance...  thank you too for your "calm" question.  Wink LOL  c u later Hope...Tongue

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naava IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 17 March 2011 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by naava

Originally posted by --Hope--

[QUOTE=naava]
Hope


.      

Right now i am up to my eyeballs in things to do, and evening approaches...and i have much unfinished business !!....so hopefully later tonight i will have the chance...  thank you too for your "calm" question.  Wink LOL  c u later Hope...Tongue


gosh Hope i am wiped out and going to bed...Unhappy  sorry!!
 i will get to it tomorrow sometime though Smile especially if there is no epi tomorrow which i heard rumor about......

gnite Sleepy

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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 11:03am | IP Logged
@ Hope

Ok...i am back !  Smile

I am racking my brain to try and condense my thoughts as one could (and many HAVE!) written a book length response !

Specifically you seemed to ask : What would Manav had to have done that would show he rejected his mother..  Am i correct that that implies you think the things he did were showing rejection of her?

This is so interesting because i want to ask back "what has he done that ever showed he rejected her?" Big smile

Look, trying to be concise i want to say 4 things - all of which i have said before.

1. This is a very sick household...from the beginning.  Even tho Damo drinks, Savita - without drinking - is the main alcoholic personality.  She is someone who constantly creates a crisis around her and everyone must serve the crisis (which means her).  It is her way of controlling her environment, because she is out of control emotionally and always has been.  It's how she feels safe, even though deep down she knows she is doing wrong and probably hates herself for it.   There are usually 3 responses to this: rebellion (Sachin) appeasement (Manav) and withdrawal (Vandita)..   Sometimes individuals exhibit combinations...  (interestingly - in real life, withdrawal and appeasement personality girls often are sexually abused (vandu)...)

2. Manav has always loved his mother immensely and did everything she told him to. His appeasement was born both out of deep love for his mother & out of an attempt to pacify and calm things down.  The appeaser feels totally responsible for the household calm, and terribly guilty if there is chaos.  He feels that if he doesn't do what is asked, things will go wrong, and he goes to enormous lengths to avoid conflict.  If there is conflict, he feels like a failure and that he wasn't good enough to keep everyone happy (I am not good enough to be ur son, i was not able to keep you happy).

3.After the marriage, Manav went to her & Damo, so excited, a little scared, but sure that his mother would forgive him for running off and getting married the way they did, and it would be ok...like always..he could make it calm again.  (he was still the appeasing child and he had misbehaved)  Savita kicked him out on their wedding night....he was crushed.  Over and over again, she rejected him.  With his every attempt to reconcile, to come to see the baby, to try again, she abused rejected him and them. He tried every which way.   Some think she only abused and rejected Archu.  After all, she tried to murder her, she spoke of her death that she wished on her every chance she got, she threw things at her, hit her, etc. But you see she rejected and abused both because manav is now one with his bride and she rejects and disrespects who he is....in her mind he can only belong to her.  She is fixated on keeping him the baby and the child she can control.  She cannot accept him or respect him as an adult. He is now growing up...not going to always appease...trying to find healthy footing.    She has rejected who he is now...he is not the baby any longer...a fact Savita cannot accept ... because she is so unhealthy emotionally she doesn't know how...but neither does Manav know how to do it...all he knows is how much he loves his mother, and that he doesn't want this wrong relationship any longer.......

4. AND THIS is what Manav rejected. This control, this abuse, this sick relationship.  He has never rejected his mother.  He has tried to show her his love, and she has rejected it and him with her games.     If he had rejected HER, he wouldn't have tried over and over for so long. He has told her he loves her and wants to live with her, and he has tried to make it work, he has asked for forgiveness more than once...... he was so excited to live there on the wedding night, (she threw them out) he tried to help Sachu, (she threw them out) he came to let Savita baby him and cook for him,(she took it as a sign that he was coming to her only now and didn't even hear what he said and went beserk) he tried to buy all Savita's vegetables (she refused it) and when she rejected everything he offered time and time again......he said "i quit."  I have had enough. I can't do this anymore.   He DID talk with her at first.   But now he has given up. No, now he doesn't go there often...because he is so tired of being abused.  I don't blame him. 

Everyone is so quick to say SAvita was justified in her bad behavior,  there were REASONS she acted so bad.  So did Jack the ripper or any psychopathic killer...they too had their REASONS.  The truth is one may harbor feelings of hatred, but one cannot act on them --- murder, speaking out for the death of someone (especially your DIL), phsyical and emotional abuse....those are all UNACCEPTABLE.  Savi'a's actions are abusive, Manav's actions have been attempts to reconcile. Umm..don't have to be a rocket scientist, huh?  So NOW, his action is withdrawal.  Some of the forum seems to think that's beyond terrible and an unforgivable sin. .  I think it's self protection from more abuse.

Everyone screams at Manav, it's not what you say it's what you do.  So he tried to DO the things i have listed above.  In the beginning, and until just recently, but he was rejected everytime.  So now yes, he has given up.   If we apply that same standard to SAvita, what she DID was try to murder Archu, physically threw things at her, pushed her, grabbed her and hurt her, stole the grandchild...   W*F kind of a double standard is that?

Everyone on this forum who thinks Manav  is bad and wrong...has said, well he should at least DO HIS DUTY.  So we see what happened when he went to ask forgiveness (from his heart and out of great love for her)... SAvita was joined by all those same people on the forum,  and they screamed  OMG Manav is only doing DUTY>  he doesn't really love her...shame shame bad son...you are only doing DUTY>

.......... damned if he does damned if he doesnt' in my opinion.   Ouch

hmmm   i have more i could say but that will take it to another level....LOLLOL

Like you apparently have a hard time understanding my position, i must admit I have an equally hard time understanding yours.   I DO understand honoring parents...no matter what...but, there is a line that should not be crossed when abuse is involved...emotional and/or physical.. 

MPOV  WinkWink

Thanks for asking Hope,  I don't think i  said anything at all i haven't already said many times...i hope i answered your question about my position and pov...but perhaps raised more (questions) LOL  

I know one thing...we all want Manav, Archu, Savita, Damo, and the rest...TO LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER....Clap

LOL guess i got close to book length after all....sorry !!!  LOL

ps.  i am adding this later....all that said above, i would agree that if it is the custom in India for the son to financially support the paternal family, understanding he didn't have any money at first, and has to pay his own rent and food bills, he could have and should have given them at least some monthly amount......but to be honest, i am not sure he didn't do that ...maybe not monthly but i am pretty sure i  remember one time when he gave Damo some money for the household after he was married...and he tried to give the vegetables...and when he said that he said "even though i am not able to support her, at least i can buy her vegetables." leading me to think she may have rejected his monies...   the CV's don't show us every detail and sometimes we must guessShocked
 LOLLOLLOL




Edited by naava - 18 March 2011 at 12:27pm

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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 2:19pm | IP Logged

@ Nava's post above

One of the finest pieces of analysis I've come across on this site.Clap

The explanation covers so many points, even when script writers may not have imagined that a flow they are subconsciously maintaining, with recklessly minimum possible adherence to a character consistency, can be explained or contained so beautifully and rationally. I've always feared, and still fear, that a coherent perspective on a character, for a long term application, is futile in this set-up where they keep on changing everything or anything with barest or no amount of deliberation or thought to some consistency to a pose of character or some already elapsed part of story. As such, such a wide encompassing review is laudable. Clap 

The viewers' reaction part was shared in honesty, but just as we enjoy a forum, each to their own perspectives- just as author is well meaning and sincere in her opinion.SmileHug

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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 2:29pm | IP Logged
wow amazing analysis Naava Clap

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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 2:46pm | IP Logged
thanks guys...i was just trying to respond from the heart to the question Hope asked me..I know there are other opinions, and that's what i like about the forum...we can all share...


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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
naava,nice analysis of the mother -son scenario. such thought provoking posts make the forum worthwhile.

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