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Kool Comments : Dharmesh issue Edited note pg 15 (Page 5)

malinn Goldie
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Posts: 1167

Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
One more thing here......I get the feeling that some people feel that they must possibly show solidarity with Kool 'under attack' by giving her support.......
 
I too am a Kool friend.......I also like her posts and generally agree with her.....
 
Its just that this time.....I am not in agreement.....or maybe presenting a differing point of view...
 
And debating is always healthy.......its gives us an option to think from both sides of an issue......
 
My dad used to tell me......always take the stance opposite to the one you agree with......then, you will realise how soo you will disagree with yourself.....
 
Isn't it cool????Smile
 
 
 

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Not_a_fanKalapianu rulzlunzakoolsadhu1000Piyatrix

naava IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:35pm | IP Logged
Kools i think everything you have said about the Dharmesh issue is correct.  What i don't quite understand, and i talked a lot about it on yesterdays Comments thread, is where the issue of punishment came in.

 Everyone is saying "D has to be "punished" somehow therefore he has to support his child." ??????  where does that idea even come from?  Dharmesh should support Vaishali and the baby because it is his responsibility...period.  It has nothing to do with punishment.  It has to do with the idea that if you bring little lives into the world, you have a responsibility to take care of them....and if Vaishali refuses it she isn't letting him go scot free - meaning unpunished - she would be letting him go scot free in terms of his responsibility to this child.    It's not about her in the end - it's certainly not mercenary (??) to take the money it's simply about taking care of the baby.

  And to be honest...even tho he said in the heat of anger that he won't support anyone, i think he has shown that he cares about  Varun and I think he will care about this child also, although he perhaps thinks of this one more as his waaris...more than just a son..(do we KNOW IT'S  SON?? maybe its a daughter !!)  LOL

anyway...i too was a bit worried when i saw archu and madhuri.......here's another thought...what if madhuri and dharmu were married in temple only? Is that possible? then they wouldn't be legally married according to India law?  If so, then Vaishali would be the legal wife after all.  LOLJust a thought





Edited by naava - 09 March 2011 at 1:45pm

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Not_a_fanmalinn

malinn Goldie
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:35pm | IP Logged
One more thing......while I don't watch this serial anymore (from a long time now)......it is one of the only soaps where the villains have gotten their just desserts......
 
Savita: Lost Sachin and now she fears she has lost Manav
 
Rasika: Lost all her money
 
Ajit: Reduced to being a labourer
 
Manju: Having to completely support the K family
 
Dharmesh: Losing his wife, unborn child and parents
 
 
Not bad......

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Piyatrix

Not_a_fan Senior Member
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by malinn



its just one of the options maybe available to her, if she so chooses.....
 
  


Malinn, you made some good points. But while a woman in Vaishalis place has all of the options you mentioned and more if she so chooses, we're talking about Vaishali herself here. And while her options are several, her future actions can only be predicted by her actions upto now. And her actions upto now suggest that she is not ready to be responsible yet, she has still not understood where she stands and what her future options are. She handled the situation after she got to know about Dharmesh's infidelity very, very badly-that was when she should have realized her responsibilites, become mature and behave as an adult. While you're talking about women in such situations in general and what options we have and what we should/should not do; I'm talking about Vaishali in particular. I cannot understand or comprehend what I would do in such a situation-I guess you only know when you are faced with it. But I do know I would have handled it very differently. Some people are emotionally equipped to be independent, some people are not-they rely on others. This has nothing to do with education or capabilities and everything to do with emotional maturity. And frankly, Vaishali has yet to show any.

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excelsa7malinnnaavalunzaanu rulz

Kalapi IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
[
Its just that this time.....I am not in agreement.....or maybe presenting a differing point of view...
 
And debating is always healthy.......its gives us an option to think from both sides of an issue......
 
My dad used to tell me......always take the stance opposite to the one you agree with......then, you will realise how soo you will disagree with yourself.....
 
Isn't it cool????Smile
 
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
I so agree with u. Do it all the time with Kools just for the fun of it....totally understand....LOL
Not_a_fan Senior Member
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by malinn

Kool.......there is a difference here.......wanting to teach the man a lesson is one thing.......See here you are missing the entire point......In the context of the situation - where Vaishali was madly in love with Dharmesh.....she was not duped by him deliberately.......I would think a woman would NOT want anything from him......which is exactly what they seem to be showing......Vaishali wants nothing to do with the man.....she is NOT lachaar or bebass.....the way you want to portray her...... she does not need to take the money from him........everybody does not need to take money like that......that is why we are still people with values and culture......whcih has eroded totally in the west......I too live in Canada......but I still feel that materialism has no place in relationships
 Such thinking erodes the very foundation of each and every relationship and also the very strength of our own character


I'm butting in on this discussion, but firstly Vaishali was duped by Dharmesh deliberately. Whether Dharmesh loved her or not is a different matter, though I am on the fence on that issue. The fact is that he was married, he did not divorce his first wife, he did not inform Vaishali that he was married and so, he duped her deliberately. About materialism in relationships-there is no relation between Vaishali-Dharmesh now, is there? Probably, there never was.

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anu rulz

koolsadhu1000 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by malinn

Clap Kool in a fighting form.......or should I say spirited????Spirited is more suited ? U spurred me on , I was meditating .LOLLOLLOLLOL

You spoke very strongly about hunger and empty stomach and principles and self-respect and idealism are possible only in a satisfied and fully fe body......
 
While, you make a very convincing argument, and many will possibly buy it.......It is still the easy way out....It is still the only option that you are choosing for Vaishali.....NOPE . Im merely refraining from suggesting impossibilities like u coz I see this serial for WHAT IT IS while ur trying to see it for WHAT IT CAN BE . Like ur comment on how much India has progressed .It HAS , but is THAT india shown here ? They r showing India where people r standing on streets and gossipping in CROWDS . Does it happen ? u WANT serial to be a certain way , I constantly talk of PR standards .
 
See, the CV's are thinking ahead of you.....They are showing you cinematographically, what lays ahead for Vaishali, possibly....You are only seeing things one-dimensionally......Money is the only thing that rules in your argument......You are closing all and any doors for Vaishali.....Don' mind , but what big door are YOU opening with ur arguments of SELF RESPECT ? Ur constantly suggesting how young and beautiful she is ...........Ur hoping she will get a PRINCE CHARMING due to those assets if she sells thjem correctly . Thats YOUR concept of SELF RESPECT ........isnt it ? And THAT prince charming will give her SECURITY .........meaning MONEY SUPPORT ?So see ...ur ALSO talking off money only .  By using youth and beauty women LAnd GOOD proposals ........what after all r GOOD PROPOSALS ?  Ur SAYING SAME THING that I AM . U just Dont know it , bas .
 
Remember, this is a b*****d child......so, rights, visitation, father's love, both parents, father's  name.....are all idealistic.....the label that will stick will be b*****d...... Nope . If paternity is proved he gets the name . AND monetary rights ., Its Very very realistic . U see his Dad hasnt died like Sachin .he is ALIVE and perhaps ready to take his responsibility as he is his waaris .
 
In the western world, we see these kind of punishments.....MONETARY......and you see how that entire society has evolved........People are scared to get married......they avoid it....or they enter into contracts before the marriage......everyone is scared of being sued.....so the doctor doesn't diagnose exactly, leaving a way out.....each and everywhere, you see a WAY OUT......an avoidance of taking onus or responsibility..... Its a totally materialistic society.......where a parent SUES for its child's death in MILLIONS - which is considered JUSTICE......
 
Justice cannot be measured only monetarily......Justice is done only when there is repentance and guilt for one's own mistakes, so that the person is reformed and does not repeat the same thing......
 
I still believe that losing his entire family, friends and name in society - itself is a big punishment for Dharmesh......Maybe, Madhuri will not be able to concieve again, so losing Varun and Madhuri will be the final loss for him....He will be all alone......Simply saying that taking his money means he will NOT do it again or that he will think twice is something which is questionable.......If Dharmesh is a truly black person.....he will make it his vendetta against women - and get married to another rich woman for HER money??????????If u allow me to say it .........BULL . Especially to underlined part . Dharmesh told clearly YESTERDAY he cares a DAMN for RELATIONS .Manav was STUPID to even TELL a crook of HIS CALIBRE that SEE WHAT U HAVE LOST .RISHTAS . Dharmesh only cares for MONEY . He will flee THIS society and set up SHOP elsewhere and mint money .When he comes back with Loads of money , this SAME SOCIETY will lick his boots coz PUBLIC Memory is SHORT and they doo pooja of the RICH .
 
You discard Vaishali so easily as unable to take care of herself...... She had just finished college, if I remember correctly, so her not working was not a choice or anything.....She got married after college......Does not mean she is NOT capable......I have an MBA, and am a housewife......I choose to be one.....does not make me any less capable in my own opinion.....Did i say she was INCAPABLE ? Nope .I said TILL NOW she didnt EVEr move her butt to earn a penny , now she is pregnant and her timing to draw up resumes with her zero work xperience SUCKS . Read that para well please .Also tell me WHICH company will employ her and till then at WHOSE expense she will EAT ?
 
You have again chosen to show the characters in a way that it suits your argument......
Archana: Manav wants to support her himself......right now, if she asserts herself, then it will affect his ego and their early marital relations.......I think, she is right in simply being a wife as of now.....Many women would choose this route, since it is one of adjustment and marital harmonyMy dear Archana had given up job and studies even in her 3 month stay at Deshmukhs .She does it at the drop of a hat coz honestly speaking she doesnt value it enough . Thats MY opinion of HER character .U were talking of SELF RESPECT , today Archna was telling Vaishali to HOLD mangalsutra TIGHT and not to let it go .What do u say to THAT ?
 
Varsha: She was shown as rude, brash and outspoken right from the beginning......So, she had an affair, which almost broke her marriage......she couldn't understand the importance of being a mother and her brashness and impulsiveness have already punished her for life.....The CV's are not showing her to be a villain....they are simply showing how a person can ruin paradise, if they are immature and brash......Who cares what CVS set out to show .They TURNED her into one .full forum is today angry with her .
 
Manju: She is the villain, who uses the small powers she has (her salary) to wreck others lives....Many people in life fit this category.....can't say that the CV's are creating a villain simply BECAUSE she is earning.......Then u dont see the subtelties That I do . U see exactly what CVS want u to see . U dont see The regressive SOCH in these serials . So Simple .
 
 
On the whole, I think that you have started wanting to think like or for the CV's.......so that there is no analysis of your own.....Just because YOU THINK they will not show Vaishali capable, you are closing all her avenues......I think that is wrong.....Thats a laugh .LOLLOLLOLLOL Btw I repeat ...............................I never said Vaishali is INCAPABLE .I said she hasnt done job till now and now the timing sucks . Which company will employ her mid pregnancy ?
 
I am not saying that taking child support or taking Dharmesh to court is wrong.....what I am saying is that it is not the ONLY option.....also the manner in which you presented this option is incorrect or disagreeable....atleast to me.....
 
Each person will think and react to a situation, based on their own experiences in life......which is why we have differing views and points.......However, some things should always be right and some things always wrong......
 
Vaishali has a full family.....All families have their faults.....but in times of problems.....they rally together.....which is what family is all about....
 
The parents have a house in Mumbai.....worst case scenario they can sell it or rent it and live in their hometown on that money.....till such a time as this crisis is over......Vaishali can bear the child and thereafter look after them financially......Now, don't shoot it down, since I know of many women who do support their parents and very well too.....In a matter of a few years, Vaishali can work/study and get  good salaried job......In Mumbai, even today, call-centre jobs are easily available and do pay decent salaries for more than SURVIVAL......Just options......there can be many such options......She can do Tuitions (Sulochana can teach Marathi to children), alterations of clothes can earn a person 8-10000/month / Manohar can do some part-time account work etc.....My dear The house is on VINOD's Name . Vinods WIFE who HATES Vaishali is running the household expenses . U think she will allow them to RENT IT ? High hopes ! And if she takes them to HER OTHER FLAT see how she will treat Vaishali , LIKE A DOG . Acc to U THAT is acceptable I suppose .LOLLOLLOLLOL
 
Give her a chance.......Dharmesh is not the end-all and be-all.....He is a mistake.....She has to move on.....She is young and beautiful.....A few years of hardships will only give her a decent shot at a good life.....Sticking to Dharmesh and trying to milk him off money will only make her miserable and keep the option of re-uniting with the guy open.....There u go . Young and Beautiful .meaning she will get a guy . Then why r u talking of SELF RESPECT dear ?If the end and bottom line is GUYS will take care of us , if a bad guy uses us and drops us , What SELF RESPECT r we talking about ?We r talking about SURVIVAL means then .....urs is ....Latching on to another guy is best for Vaishali ...........I say , taking every dime from Dharmu too is an avenure , thats all .Then how can u look down on mY way and say URS is BEST ? I dont think ur being FAIR here .
 
Don't get so scared of hardships Kool......We have to face certain situations in life full on......we can't take the easy way out.........Money is NOT everything.....while it is essential......Vaishali is not in dire straits yet......taking help from her Jiju's and parents is not wrong under such circumstances......Now what do u know of me to make this statement ? BTW MONEY is indeed Everything . U cannot do a DAMN thing without money .Even to SHOW SELF RESPECT u need a bank balance and money . To SAY nO to Dharmus money U need MONEY in ur OWN ACCOUNT .
 
One point for Naava here........am replying here for your post in the previous thread......I respect your points and your experience......But want to still argue (for the sake of it)......
 
Here, it is not a question of keeping a father away from his child.......this is an illegitimate child.....the feelings towards the father and the other sibling will always be torturous and bitter...... so telling a child a 'lie" for his own peace of mind - would not be wrong....that his father is no more or that he left us or that we don't know where he is etc......When the child is old enough to understand, and his own thinking is stable and secure.....one can tell him the truth alongwith the reasons......Let the child then decide whether he wishes to make contact with the father.....Let me tell you, the child will still be bitter for what has been done to him....but he may be able to handle it better.....How do u know for so CERTAIN ? I recently saw such a case where the child went BACK to his father in TWELFTH standard coz he cud pay for his medical college and Mom with her bank job cudnt .Father was BUSINESSMAN . By the time CHILD becomes old enough to decide MOm has to make decisions for him and she better not FORCE HER decisions on HIM coz she has to remember HE doesnt HATE the Dad , SHE DOES .
 
But then again, this is my thinking.....I would like to protect my child from a father who cheated his mother and another woman.....its not the ONLY way.....Why ? The Father cheats WOMEN . he may LOVE his children ! Why r u confusing the issues ?
 
Also about the re-location.....that point was that incase, Vaishali feels that living in such a society where everyone knows her and what happened with her, she and her parents can re-locate somewhere and make a fresh beginnning......its just one of the options maybe available to her, if she so chooses.....Nothing of this is happening in PR and u know it . They will stay put in Dombivli , so why r u arguing ? They have already started groming SHIBU as eligible guy for Vaishali .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 09 March 2011 at 1:57pm

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Not_a_fanJasmine10Kalapianu rulzbee5Dabulls23

malinn Goldie
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Posted: 09 March 2011 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
See, herein lies the limitations of a discussion.......we wish to project our own thoughts and at the same time, we wish to understand the point from teh character's POV and how she would behave under such circumstances......
 
Sowmya.....I love it when people start to disagree with you, by comlimenting you first....so, thanks...
 
 
And, maybe you are right, considering that you may understand Vaishali's character better than me.....like you said, I was presenting my points based on what a normal woman under such circumstances could do.....

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