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Radio tagging collars on humans (Page 6)

Roadrunnerz Goldie
Roadrunnerz
Roadrunnerz

Joined: 09 August 2008
Posts: 1723

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 8:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by blue-ice

Our anger is MISDIRECTED.....we should be angry at the scammers... who robbed these students....US officials are merely doing there jobs............let us not forget that thousands of Indian students are studying in the US schools and there has not been any major problem yet...
good suggestion . Let the scammers be radio tagged first  Tongue
Do the same with people working in India without working visas. A certain negar khan was deported I think . What about katrina kaif ? During the Income tax raid carried out at her place she was reprted to have protested saying she was a British citizen and they could not do it to her LOL

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 03 February 2011 at 8:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

good suggestion . Let the scammers be radio tagged first  Tongue
Do the same with people working in India without working visas. A certain negar khan was deported I think . What about katrina kaif ? During the Income tax raid carried out at her place she was reprted to have protested saying she was a British citizen and they could not do it to her LOL


The scammers are detained and face prison. Would you like that for the students.

Also I'm not against India tightening up its immigrations stance and laws against foreigners. Especially foreigners who may commit crimes or take advantage of India. I say why not. Indian people are hardworking and put their blood and sweat into making India what it is - why should any foreigner reap benefits from the good Indians hard work. If Katrina wants to evade taxes as a Briton, then screw her and tell her to shape up or ship out as far as I care. Not our fault if Indian government has not grown balls yet.
Roadrunnerz Goldie
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Posts: 1723

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 9:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

The two University officials who are suspected of masterminding the scam are in detention. If people stopped viewing this from the cultural mindset against collars and compare it to animals. That is not what it is at all.

In fact be grateful its California where this happened and not Arizona. In Arizona suspicion of illegal immigration means prison term and guilty until proven innocent and absolutely no rights. I was against all that. I used to be against detention based on suspicion and all for immigrant rights and treatment with dignity even if they are illegal. But now I'm almost thinking, people would rather be thrown in a crowded detention center. Even if you are nice and give them rights they don't appreciate it anyway.
Why should a person who has done no wrong be grateful for losing his freedom and dignity in exchange for detention?Confused It will take some indoctrination into the US culture to start appreciating the amount of freedom granted to a person  like  a dog on a leash  for no fault of his just  because it could have been even worseShocked  In some countries I could get my head cut off so  must I be grateful if I still have a head on my shoulders? Confused
Roadrunnerz Goldie
Roadrunnerz
Roadrunnerz

Joined: 09 August 2008
Posts: 1723

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 9:56am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by crazy_sunny

good suggestion . Let the scammers be radio tagged first  Tongue
Do the same with people working in India without working visas. A certain negar khan was deported I think . What about katrina kaif ? During the Income tax raid carried out at her place she was reprted to have protested saying she was a British citizen and they could not do it to her LOL


The scammers are detained and face prison. Would you like that for the students.
Why would I want that for students who havent done any wrongConfused 
 
Also I'm not against India tightening up its immigrations stance and laws against foreigners. Especially foreigners who may commit crimes or take advantage of India. I say why not. Indian people are hardworking and put their blood and sweat into making India what it is - why should any foreigner reap benefits from the good Indians hard work. If Katrina wants to evade taxes as a Briton, then screw her and tell her to shape up or ship out as far as I care. Not our fault if Indian government has not grown balls yet.
The raid was carried out but not sure if they found anything on her but the IT officers found quite a lot in Priyanka Chopra's premises . LOL They found a sleepy Shahid Kapoor in his shorts and little else besides tax evasion of Rs. 6 crore by Priyanka
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 03 February 2011 at 10:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

Originally posted by return_to_hades

The two University officials who are suspected of masterminding the scam are in detention. If people stopped viewing this from the cultural mindset against collars and compare it to animals. That is not what it is at all.

In fact be grateful its California where this happened and not Arizona. In Arizona suspicion of illegal immigration means prison term and guilty until proven innocent and absolutely no rights. I was against all that. I used to be against detention based on suspicion and all for immigrant rights and treatment with dignity even if they are illegal. But now I'm almost thinking, people would rather be thrown in a crowded detention center. Even if you are nice and give them rights they don't appreciate it anyway.
Why should a person who has done no wrong be grateful for losing his freedom and dignity in exchange for detention?Confused It will take some indoctrination into the US culture to start appreciating the amount of freedom granted to a person  like  a dog on a leash  for no fault of his just  because it could have been even worseShocked  In some countries I could get my head cut off so  must I be grateful if I still have a head on my shoulders? Confused


You don't go to countries where they cut your head off do you. And even if you do hopefully you don't do something that will get your head cut off. The matter is simple, know the laws of the land where you are going to. If you don't like their laws don't go. If you do go, make sure you don't break them. Most importantly don't view the country you visit from your perspective, look at it from their perspective. The whole problem here is that Indians are fixated that the ankle bracelet is humiliating or insulting, and refuse to realize this is something very matter of fact or nonchalant in the states with absolutely none of the negativity they are associating with it
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23637

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 10:23am | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by crazy_sunny

good suggestion . Let the scammers be radio tagged first  Tongue
Do the same with people working in India without working visas. A certain negar khan was deported I think . What about katrina kaif ? During the Income tax raid carried out at her place she was reprted to have protested saying she was a British citizen and they could not do it to her LOL


The scammers are detained and face prison. Would you like that for the students.
Why would I want that for students who havent done any wrongConfused 
 
Also I'm not against India tightening up its immigrations stance and laws against foreigners. Especially foreigners who may commit crimes or take advantage of India. I say why not. Indian people are hardworking and put their blood and sweat into making India what it is - why should any foreigner reap benefits from the good Indians hard work. If Katrina wants to evade taxes as a Briton, then screw her and tell her to shape up or ship out as far as I care. Not our fault if Indian government has not grown balls yet.
The raid was carried out but not sure if they found anything on her but the IT officers found quite a lot in Priyanka Chopra's premises . LOL They found a sleepy Shahid Kapoor in his shorts and little else besides tax evasion of Rs. 6 crore by Priyanka


No detention! No tracking! Do NOTHING! What do you propose governments do for people suspected of doing something wrong? Let them roam free and risk them fleeing? Is that really what they do in India too, do nothing at all, let witnesses or suspects in a crime roam without any surveillance so they may flee at anytime. So foreign tourists suspected of drug trafficking or illegal immigration actually let to roam free, not detained and questioned without even being Mirandized. The last time I checked foreigners can be detained and questioned solely for suspicion even if they are innocent. Apparently USA has to play by a different set of rules.

 

No one is denying that these students are most likely innocent and victims of circumstance. However, these 16-18 students who have been singled out from the thousands did something out of the ordinary. It is probable that they knowingly indulged in the fraud. They are being monitored with probable cause.


Roadrunnerz Goldie
Roadrunnerz
Roadrunnerz

Joined: 09 August 2008
Posts: 1723

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 10:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by crazy_sunny

Originally posted by return_to_hades

The two University officials who are suspected of masterminding the scam are in detention. If people stopped viewing this from the cultural mindset against collars and compare it to animals. That is not what it is at all.

In fact be grateful its California where this happened and not Arizona. In Arizona suspicion of illegal immigration means prison term and guilty until proven innocent and absolutely no rights. I was against all that. I used to be against detention based on suspicion and all for immigrant rights and treatment with dignity even if they are illegal. But now I'm almost thinking, people would rather be thrown in a crowded detention center. Even if you are nice and give them rights they don't appreciate it anyway.
Why should a person who has done no wrong be grateful for losing his freedom and dignity in exchange for detention?Confused It will take some indoctrination into the US culture to start appreciating the amount of freedom granted to a person  like  a dog on a leash  for no fault of his just  because it could have been even worseShocked  In some countries I could get my head cut off so  must I be grateful if I still have a head on my shoulders? Confused


You don't go to countries where they cut your head off do you. And even if you do hopefully you don't do something that will get your head cut off. The matter is simple, know the laws of the land where you are going to. If you don't like their laws don't go. If you do go, make sure you don't break them. Most importantly don't view the country you visit from your perspective, look at it from their perspective. The whole problem here is that Indians are fixated that the ankle bracelet is humiliating or insulting, and refuse to realize this is something very matter of fact or nonchalant in the states with absolutely none of the negativity they are associating with it
God willing I would like to get marks good enough to secure admission in a good reputed college in India itself rather than having to risk my ankles or head in some other  country Geek
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Posts: 23637

Posted: 03 February 2011 at 11:40am | IP Logged
My comments in red.

Originally posted by TOI

Students in Tri-Valley University apparently got a 20% cut from the sham varsity for every admission they facilitated: The commission was lucrative as it was calculated on the tuition fee (approx Rs 8 lakh) of the fresher.

Moreover, many from Andhra Pradesh had taken a circuitous route to Tri-Valley ' first joining another varsity and then landing up at the fake varsity, lured probably by its offer of instant employment.

These findings figure in the detailed report submitted by the NRI cell (at the Secretariat) to chief minister N Kiran Kumar Reddy. As per the report, a majority of the Indian students had moved to Tri-Valley from other universities. It also states that only a little more than 100 students who had obtained visas from US Consulates in India were Tri-Valley bound, indicating that most with F-1 visas were going to other universities.

The students needed a crooked route to Tri-Valley as it was not approved by the US to provide I-20 forms, which every applicant for student visa (F-1), needs to submit. Using illegal I-20 forms issued by Tri-Valley raised the risk of being caught during a thorough check. Consequently, students preferred to take admissions in other universities with valid I-20 forms and then used it to enter Tri-Valley.

The university, however, claims on its website that it was "authorised'' by the US government to issue I-20 forms. But only 140 of its 5,500 students had this form from Tri-Valley. Parents have also accused Tri-Valley of running a scam even in issuing these "fake" I-20 forms.

"While most universities issue I-20 forms without much hassle, Tri-Valley University management or agents charged Rs 25,000 to Rs 50,000," said a parent from the city.

Some students from Hyderabad even received an I-20 directly from the university and it is reliably learnt that both Hyderabad US Consulate and the one at Chennai failed to detect the fraud and processed these F-1 visa forms.

In some cases it appeared that students had not really intended to move to the sham Tri-Valley unversity. For instance, a local student who went for her MBA to Schiller International University, Florida, eventually moved to Tri-Valley along with a bunch of 20 other students after her course was over. The reason? While most joined it lured by the prospect of being legally allowed to work (Tri-Valley gives Curricular Practical Training enabling students to work from Day 1 for 20 to 40 hours a week), others simply joined the bandwagon.

Now with several students being radio-tagged and interrogated for long hours, the CM on Wednesday said that the state had written to the ministry of external affairs and the Indian consulate in California to protect students and provide them with legal aid.


Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Tri-Valley-gave-its-students-a-20-cut-to-lure-buddies-Report-/articleshow/7415708.cms

Note that the students were not directly admitted into Tri-Valley University. They were being admitted in other universities and then transferring, and using other round about means. They were willing to pay for forms that any other university would issue free of charge or for nominal fees.


Originally posted by TOI

WASHINGTON: Hundreds of Indian students who have gotten scammed by a dodgy California-based university had it coming. Tri-Valley University (TVU) had a reputation as a "Diploma Mill" that offered a spurious route to employment and immigration in the US. Inquiring students and professionals knew about it, discussed it in immigration forums, and warned others about it.

But eager beavers looking for a short cut to emigrating to the US through a questionable academic route ignored the red flags. After US authorities busted the scam, an estimated 1500 students, some of them gullible victims, some of them scheming immigrant hopefuls, face financial loss, loss of credits, loss of time, loss of face, and in some cases, even face deportation. ( Read: Hard times ahead for 'sham' US varsity students )

Here's how the scam unfolded: India, from among all countries, has been sending the maximum number of students to US colleges over the past decade ' some 10,000 to 15,000 each year. Most aspiring students try and get into the top 50 schools, which have stringent qualifying standards, including exams such as GRE and GMAT, besides TOEFL, an English proficiency test. The process involves gaining admission on the basis of test scores, in lieu of which the university, if it accredited and complaint with US rules, sends an I-20 document to the accepted student, which he or she presents to the embassy or consulate in the home country to get an F-1 student visa. ( Read: Govt probing if agents duped students )

But in recent years, several dodgy universities have come up which waive GRE/GMAT requirements as long as students can pay thousands of dollars up front in the form of various 'fees.' More pertinently, these colleges dubiously facilitate Optional Practical Training(OPT) and Curricular Practical Training (CPT), the two routes to employment at the end of the college degree, from the first day of enrollment.

Typically, in recognized, well-regarded universities, all students must be enrolled as full-time students for a year before receiving CPT/OPT. For the hundreds of thousands of Indian students who have eventually become US citizens, OPT and CPT are the first steps to employment--based visa (usually H1-B), Green Card, and citizenship, in that order.

TVU and similar schools had a "well-earned" reputation of shortening the process by offering OPT/CPT from day one ' which meant "students" could get on the employment track even as they began "college." In fact, TVU didn't even have a campus in the traditional sense. It had a solitary, sorry-looking building, bought in April 2010, which housed everything from administrative offices to classrooms, from which random lectures were transmitted over the internet to "students" across the US, including those working other jobs. Under current US law, students cannot take only online courses while on an F-1 status, a scam TVU managed to perpetrate.

Founded by Susan Xiao-Ping Su and run mainly by Chinese Christians, with a few Indians in the "faculty," the school boasted that its mission "is to make Christian scientists, engineers, business leaders and lawyers for the glory of God, with both solid academic professionalism and Christian faith, therefore to live out Christ-like characters, value and compassion in the world, to make an impact and shine as its light."

If that wasn't enough to set off alarm bells, prospective students could have at least seen the writing on the wall ' internet forums -- had they bother to trawl any. In an exchange that began in April 2010, students, both prospective, inquiring ones, and those already committed to TVU, duked it out online about the university and its practices. "Has any one got any experience with Tri-Valley University?" inquired one person on an immigration forum. He had heard they offer "hassle free admission, gre, gmat not mandatory, tofel (sic) is pretty much the only requirement low semester fee, OPT, CPT from the day the course starts. no tests, no mandatory online classes, a perfect way to bypass the visa process!"

In no time, there were red flags galore. "TVU is NOT accredited, so you can NOT get a degree from them. Any 'degree' they issue is worthless," wrote one forum member on May 19. "If you use a 'degree' from them for any immigration purpose, it would be fraud. You can also NOT use OPT or CPT from them. Any such use would be fraud." Unperturbed, the inquirer wrote back: "the degrees are worthless, but i thought that its enough to get CPT."

Other immigration forum members, some of them partisans and flaks for TVU, then argued about how if the university was not accredited, it could generate I-20, a document for prospective students that enables them to apply for and get F-1 student visa in their home country. "You are grasping at straws. Probably because you have signed up with them and now have been told that you got scammed. Scamming victims are often in denial...," wrote a user named Jo1234, warning, "I think TVU will eventually get into trouble with authorities...Their "degrees" are worthless. If you try to use them for an H1 or a GC, you would be committing fraud. Spend your money with a real university, not these fraudsters."


It took till January this year for US authorities to cotton on to the scam ' or, to look at it charitably, to put together the manpower for a nationwide crackdown. Although TVU was based in Pleasanton, California, it's 'students' were scattered throughout the country, from the East Coast to Midwest to Deep South. Many of them were illegally employed. Although it was allowed only 30 foreign admissions pending accreditation, TVU had managed to work the system to enroll more than 1500 students. Apparently, there were companies across the US which used TVU's F-1 visa-based CPT/OPT to beat H1-B visa requirements, which regulate salary, insist on not replacing American workers etc.

On January 19, after raiding TVU, getting student records from the school, and shutting it down, immigration officials began knocking on the doors of TVU students across the country or serving NTAs (notice to appear) asking them to get in touch with the local office. In some cases, officials merely made preliminary inquiries. In others, students were interrogated for up to three hours. Some had their passports taken away, if they declined voluntary departure. And in rare cases, where officials found egregious violation of visa terms or questionable visas, students were shackled with electronic monitoring devices till further inquiries.

"It was terrifying," said one student who asked not to be named. "Out of the blue, all our dreams came crashing down."

But while there is the usual outrage and fire-spitting in India over the radio collar issue, it turns out that not all students are as gullible as was initially made out. Speaking on background, community leaders, attorneys, and even some students acknowledged that many people knew the whole process was questionable. One giveaway: According to representatives of the Telugu Association of North America (TANA), an estimated 95 per cent of the TVU admissions from India are from Andhra Pradesh, a fact that has prompted TANA to arrange legal representation for the students. "They are young kids whose future will be ruined. They are our people after all. We have to help them," says TANA's Jayaram Komati. According to one student, most victims paid up to $ 2800 per semester to Tri-Valley, some of them paying as much as $ 16,000 up front for a full course to obtain a shady degree.

The growing sense among officials and even the Indian community is that many students knew what they were getting into but still risked it. "They know what the rules are - problem is, some of them work within the Indian mentality that the rules are made to be avoided and that the government is a nuisance, not a power to be reckoned with," Nandita Ruchandani, a New York-area immigration attorney who has dealt with such cases, told ToI. Still, many attorneys, some of them working pro bono, are offering to help the students. Two attorneys arranged by TANA in the Bay Area are now working on several Tri-Valley cases.

On Sunday morning TANA arranged for a conference call with immigration attorneys at which more than 200 affected students called in. Among the student gripes, how could the US government undermine the process initiated by a college which it recognized enough to allow it to generate F-1 visas? And if it was a sham university as authorities were now claiming, how and why did the US consulates in India issue the visas?

Meanwhile, a steamed up Indian government, aghast at the radio tagging of a few students, has sought to free them of the ignominy even as the more gullible victims are wondering whether to return to India or keep a foot in the academic door through an appeals process. "We are in a dilemma ...Many students are afraid to go to immigration officers...they are taking away passports pending investigation, sometimes even for those going for voluntary self-departure," a Minneapolis-based student told TOI. The student, who transferred to Tri-Valley from another university, found the Pleasanton school dodgy enough to request a transfer late last year. But she says other schools declined to accept Tri-Valley credits. Stuck in the quagmire, she has gone by the advice of US authorities and phoned into the hotline they have established to provide details of her case. She hasn't heard back from them. It will be a long cold winter for many Indian students in the US.


Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/news/Duped-Indian-students-ignored-red-flags/articleshow/7395932.cms

Note how the students ignored red flags and advice against what they were doing. Note that most were aware that what they were doing was dodgy and against the rules but still did it. Note that they were doing it with the mentality that rules are ok to be broken. Note that only, and only the students who had gross visa violations and other questionable things that usually is affiliated with people involved in immigration scams have been radio tagged - not every Tom, Dick and Harry.


These students are NOT PURELY INNOCENT. In fact they are a slap in the face to every hard working student from India and across the world who study hard, give GMAT/GRE in order to enter top universities. They are a slap in the face to every hard working individual from India and across the world who works hard and fair to get a job in USA and other countries.

These are not hard working students whose dreams were shattered. These are students so enamored with aspirations to study abroad that when they did not make the cut fair and square - they chose to cut corners, the chose to take the easy way, they thought they could do it without good scores or taking GMAT/GRE, they thought they could pay money to get visas and work permits while honest students waited in lines and got denied, they used roundabout ways to get into other universities and then transfer to Trivalley to work through OPT/CPT, while other students followed rules, they paid money and used shortcuts to be working 40 hours right away.

They are nothing but an insult to honesty, integrity and hard work. I have no idea why Indians are even sympathizing and fighting for these people who choose to take the easy way in life. I thought we were a country that valued hard work and integrity - that people who took shortcuts and tried to pay their way to success should be punished. I think every student studying abroad, every person working abroad, every person who immigrated to another country with honesty and integrity should be super upset at these people and demand harsher justice.

I have absolutely no sympathy. They deserve each and every bit that has come their way and even the ankle bracelet is a dignified alternative. They actually deserve to be detained or deported rather than given all this benefit of the doubt because they knowingly did half their actions and now want to blame the university or US legal system.








Edited by return_to_hades - 03 February 2011 at 12:04pm

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