Posted: 22 November 2011 at 11:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ShivangBuchThe timing of posting this scene is just amazing Lola. I thought about this scene just day before yesterday only while writing the fanfic on Gandhari in the Gandhari thread. Cosmic connection. Sema is also planning to post something about Ravan and Kans virodh bhakti in Devotees thread started. She will also be posting the analysis of my Kans diary on Janmashtami in her diary thread.
Awesome, looking forward to both, especially the virodh bhakti discussion since that's right where this fits in!
This sounds like or creates thoughts in our mind of interesting debate something like - Ravan's Prem Lakshanaa Bhakti of Shiv (Demanding, fighting, complaining, getting angry or unhappy) arguably - not sure whether right category or not (I mean prem to dur ki baat whether he can be called real true genuine worshiper/devotee or not) - Vs Ravan's Virodh Bhakti of Vishnu (Parallel devotion/meditation of two forms of God in different ways/bhaav).
Ahhh very interesting comparison, reading the first two lines I thought you were going to go in the direction of something I heard from Morari Bapu once - that the difference between Ram and Ravan's Shiv Bhakti was that Ram idolized his calm, wise, tapasvi form while Ravan admired him in his fierce Rudra mode - unaware that that mode was meant for people who committed the kinds of deeds he ended up committing :( But since I've already heard that POV this new one comparing Ravan to himself only is really a cool way to go! Different types of devotion by the same person towards different deities we have discussed before, but not involving virodh bhakti. As for Ravan's devotion towards Shiv, I want to believe that at some point it was indeed real because IMO prayerful poetry like his Shiv Tandav Stotra do not just come to one's mind without deep divine inspiration, which in turn is a product of devotion... TO BE CONTINUED ;)
And deliberately chosen path of destruction in this world for salvation reminds me of Duryodhan's very popular sentence - "Janami dharmam na cha me pravrutti". (This sounds more applicable to above Ravan scene.) Always puzzling when does this statement comes in the epic because BRC Duryodhan is always stupid and never knowledgeable as his supporters claim with this Sanskrit saying!!!!!!! They just support him saying that he was self aware but lacked self control. He knew dharma but couldn't implement due to the inner natural strong force resisting/restricting him. One can't overcome one's nature and even Geeta says that one achieves salvation through the following of his/her nature only whether right or wrong because that is something which is destined by God (it's debateable whether the word destined here is something for which human is helpless which is programmed in own virtues & vices or something which is defined duties as per shaastra in various situations for humans. The alternate word SAHAJAM used in Geeta indicates the former interpretation. Prakrutim yaanti bhootaani, nigraha kim karishyasi?? Swabhaavjen Kaunteya nibadhdhah swen karmanaa, kartum nechchhasi yanmohaat, karishyasyavashopi tat - this is very very crucial interpretation required to be done. How can you expect/ask/force a lion or crockodile to eat vegetables or grass? And a fallen soul can't further fall but now can only be lifted by following own nature. One is required to follow always duty on hand in front in any situation and yet one is supposed to understand that eventually he will be doing only that whatever is naturally made done through him. This is most interesting theory of Geeta - Sahajam karm Kaunteya sadosham api na tyajet - I always wonder what is the context here - in the sense of choice of profession or way/approach of devotion???? Choice of greater role/duty in the situation of moral dilemma??? Or what? ).
Then the deliberate choice also joins the link of our mind to Taranisen story posted by Sema in Krittivas thread. A totally different from Duryodhan's case as he was also devotee with Daasya bhaav perhaps but only pretends unlike Duryodhan. Ravan is difficult to judge whether he is among pretenders like Taranisen & Kumbhkarna or like Duryodhan (as per that Sanskrit line and his epic image not our image through the serial) lacking self control. Kans is even more complex (also Shishupal) because he is not even mentioned anywhere to be knowledgeable (consciously doing adharma and knowing about his death possibly leading him towards salvation) I guess as claimed by some in case of Duryodhan and by most for Ravan.
Note: One must however take note that Duryodhan was not killed by Vishnu's incarnation and didn't go to Vaikunth but went to heaven and he wasn't the dwarpal of Vaikunth or related to Vishnu as his devotee but was Kaliyug.
And why Ravan has to take rebirth as Shishupal if he is killed by Ram and is said to have got the salvation? Why first of all Ravan had to take birth when Hiranyaksha was killed by Varah? Even if Jay had to take birth thrice, then also how can the theory that 'one who is killed by Vishnu gets immediate mukti' be wrong? And Shishupal - the last birth didn't even utter the name of Hari (which Ravan did just before dying) and also the circumstances of his death were not gradually built up like Ravan's surroundings becoming exhausted one by one with relatives breaking his ego by the end of his life when the last arrow was shot in his navel.