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{> Ramanand Sagar's Ramayan & Shri Krishna AT#1 <} (Page 116)

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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 8:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by arun-deeps

Hey guys!! here r two siggies I made
One is frm Siya Swayamvar


n the other one is frm Kangna dhoondhoBlushing another Ram Siya cute scene that comes right after Negchaar!

FEEL FREE TO USE!!



Dear Gunu sister, all of ur siggies are so wonderful that I'm absolutely speechless dear. You are really freshening all the sweet & cute memories of  RS Ramayan. Many many thanks & also congratulations to u for making such magnificient creations dear. Shri Rama & Mata Sita bless u dear.

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arun-deeps

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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 5:08pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lola610


- In Ayodhya Kand, when Dashrath passes away, Shri Ram has a dream about him. After describing it briefly, he says "may God bless him with a long life". Since we all know how precise RSji was with every dialogue, so what do you think he meant by this one? Do you interpret it as mere dramatic irony, or a clue that Shri Ram is perfectly aware of his divinity as per this portrayal and was referring to Dashrath's soul, which by remembering him fondly in the body's last moments, attained longevity in whatever state it sought? Or something else entirely?


- Another dialogue observation, this time a frivolous one: I was rewatching the baby Krishna scenes after Putna Uddhaar and before the naming ceremony, and I noticed that the bodiless Uttkach's words to Kans - something to the effect of "hamaare deh aapki aankhon ke saamne nahin, iska arth yeh toh nahin ki aapne hamein mann se bhi bhula diya?" - did anyone notice that this is literally a translation of the popular idiom "out of sight, out of mind"? LOL I've noticed quite a few occasions on which RSji did this; normally it is very hard to do such a literal reproduction of an English phrase in Hindi (and Hindi to English, even more so), he managed it without the slightest bit of awkwardness.

 
RES for my commentsWink

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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 5:17pm | IP Logged
^^ SHE LIVES!!!! The girl who lived ROFL I like your spamming w/ pics btw. But let's just take like 1 pic and talk about it, either funny observations or serious reflections, kinda like a tumblr screencap analysis post or even your caption games. It'll be fun, what say?

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arun-deeps

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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
Btw, while I was exercising I just watched the episode in Ramayan when Lakshman was hit by the Shakti and Ram was buried in anguish.Cry It's one of the most emotional and best directed episodes of Ramayan! Lakshman's desperation to use the Brahmastra was so well portrayed by Sunilji, and when he was hit by the Shakti, Hanumanji's dialogues about how Indrajit could not carry Lakshman's body were so powerful.Clap It was also very sad seeing Ramji's anguish. The way he cradled Lakshman's head in his lap was so touching.Broken Heart I also really loved the scene when Sugreev becomes furious with Ravan and threatens to vanquish Lanka. He was such a loyal devotee of the Lord.Day Dreaming
However, one dialogue of Ramji's did make me feel a bit uncomfortable and I hope you all can clairfy about it in case I'm misunderstanding it, or the subtitles did not do justice to the dialogues. He said something like what would he gain by winning the war, and how for a woman he sacrificed his brother.
 
I felt uncomfortable with this dialogue, because it made Ramji seem a bit harsh and cold towards Sita Ma's plight.Ouch I know he was in anguish with Lakshman's unconscious state, but by saying something like "what would I gain even if I win the war" he is forgetting that his wife is living amidst demons and it was his duty as a husband to protect her. Also, since RSji took Ramcharitmanas as primary source, we know Ramji knew he was God, so killing Ravan was not only to rescue Sita Ma but also for Lok Kalyaan. This dialigue made Ramji seem a bit weak and too human if you know what I mean.
In regards to Sita, I guess we can say that it was not the real Sita who was in Lanka so Ramji did not really insult her position in his life, but he was the only one who knew that and as per his leelas which were for the benefit of everyone else, he suffered the pain of separation just like a human. As far as everyone knew, it was the real Sita in Lanka and so to hear Ramji condeming himself for sacrificing himself for "a woman", it made it seem as if he considered the position of a wife lower than that of the position of a brother, when in reality he respected all the relations in his life equally.
Could you guys please let me know if i'm thinking too much about this and if the subtitles made Ram's dialogue seem harsher than it was? Because this entire sequence was so beautifully and perfectly done, and this tiny dialogue is the only one which really prevents me from enjoying it completely.Embarrassed

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Varnita.

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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lola610

^^ SHE LIVES!!!! The girl who lived ROFL I like your spamming w/ pics btw. But let's just take like 1 pic and talk about it, either funny observations or serious reflections, kinda like a tumblr screencap analysis post or even your caption games. It'll be fun, what say?
 
Oyyyeee, I should be saying this to you! You came back after like, a bluemoon, whereas I've been here all along and was commenting on Gunu's creations too. Ask her if you want!
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Posted: 08 December 2012 at 11:01pm | IP Logged
@ Gunu - that Kangna dhoondho sig is LOVELY Clap You already know how obsessed I am with your bluish colorings,and especially with this scene it so perfectly highlights the makeup, jewelry, sindoor and mehndi so everything stands out and comes to life Day Dreaming Rock on behna, can't wait to see more like it!

@ Janu - I just love getting you all riled up, can't you tell by now ROFL If it gets you to wake up and write these longgg ass thoughtful posts, it's well worth your sad puppy dog eyed emoticons LOL

Re: the dialogue from the Sanjeevani episode, that's actually straight from RCM's Lanka Kand:
Jaaihu Avadh kavan mukh laayi | naari hetu priya bhai gavaayi ||
The same is true of Hanumanji's words about Indrajeet in his men not being strong enough to carry Sheshnag, who bears the weight of the world - guess we can't credit or question the show for either, because in both cases it was just being faithful to its source! Anyway, this chaupai I quoted is exactly the same dialogue you mentioned from the scene, except RSji puts it in prose - both ways, it means "how will I face everyone in Ayodhya after sacrificing my brother for the sake of my wife?" The verses, at surface level, actually get harsher depending on how you interpret them (the very next line goes "baru apayash sahateyu jag maahi, naari haani vishesh kshati nahin" meaning "it's ok if I'd have to bear infamy in society because of losing my wife, that's not so big a deal anyway"). As I said above, RSji was loyal to the texts he drew inspiration from when it came to dialogue, even when they got risky like Sita's words to Lakshman when she was sending him after Ram right before her abduction, or this particular instance; so if you want to express doubts and resolve them, it's best to take it straight to his source rather than considering the show. That is because you can provide more explanations in print (thanks to the voice of the 3rd person narrator) than you can enact without through the characters themselves. And therein lies the resolution to your doubt. This whole set of verses on Shri Ram's lament opens as follows:
Uhaan Ram Lakshmanahi nihaari | Bole vachan manuj anusaari
Meaning "there, Ram looked at Lakshman and spoke words befitting a mortal". Your third person narrator is saying that all these things Ram's about to say are totally ungodly, they're the laments of a grief-stricken mortal and part of his human leela - not his divine educational agenda. RSR doesn't have a narrator put forth this disclaimer, but the opening lines of "Mere Lakhan Dulaare" are along the same lines. As I've said before with regard to Ram and Sita's virah leela in spite of their knowledge of their true selves - and also w.r.t. RadheShyam's similar pastimes - a lot of it pure leela, wherein God is expressing human emotions with more depth and intensity than humans themselves, purely to invoke the passion and fervor of his devotees. It's about getting an overall feeling, not learning a specific fact, so such leelas are better to sit back and soak in the emotions than analyze word for word. As I had jokingly said back then, there were no ghazals and sappy tv shows for common folks to drown in as an outlet for their own emotions or merely for entertainment, so maybe God and the poets who wrote about him just wanted to fill the void LOL

Alternately, you could just look at that one line and understand that while Sita was abducted, but alive and unharmed because of Ravan's curse, Lakshman was close to dead, and he merely meant that his separation from Sita didn't warrant loss of life. In other words, it's not a brother being greater than a wife, but death being worse than abduction. I think this addresses any surface level issues about the line that a casual reader/viewer might have, but a devotee can grasp the aforementioned explanation about human leelas also and see it in a different light. Either way, hope it helped!


Edited by lola610 - 08 December 2012 at 11:29pm

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 5:53am | IP Logged

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Posted: 09 December 2012 at 10:29am | IP Logged
^^ That is a popular explanation among secular readers (e.g. In that Radha and Sita book i made a thread about a long time ago) but I personally don't give it much weight because A) if one reads them through the lens of sociology rather than spirituality, then there is plenty to question in even the texts of the classical age - be it VR, MB, or their contemporary social handbook which I don't regard as spiritually relevant at all - Manu Smriti. If you're reading for examples of questionable social values w.r.t. the status of women, you'll find them everywhere - it's just less elaborative in VR because the text is bigger on background stories and being informational while RCM takes longer to poetically lay out fewer events. But point B) your objection was " it makes Ramji seem too weak and human", esp in the context of RCM which posits that he is aware of his divinity. Tulsidasji's answer to that, which I quoted, is that yeah he sounds like a weak human here, because for the moment, THAT's the role he was enacting. Implicitly we can see that this means he was about sound vulnerable and flawed rather than Godlike (i.e. perfect and politically correct and worth learning from as he's been in other parts of the text). You have trouble believing that the real Shri Ram wouldn't say that, and Tulsidasji implies that of course he didn't! He doesn't sound like our God because in this instance, our God is imitating us (as in humans, not you and I specifically) - perhaps to show us what we sound like when we lament at his door, very evocative and heartrending but not making a ton of sense LOL j/k... Seriously though, as a devotee, it's not hard to accept that God is beyond the limitation of being only entirely Godlike or entirely human during the lifespan of one incarnation. A devotee can grasp that for whatever purpose, he is more than capable of switching between these different levels of consciousness depending on whether he wants to use an occasion to teach us or simply entertain us/get us caught up in the moment.

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