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Abortion is a sin? (Page 3)

Laila2009 IF-Rockerz
Laila2009
Laila2009

Joined: 27 October 2009
Posts: 7552

Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by upasana.diya

i find it totally hilarious that we are fighting on something said in entertainment industry.... please abide by the disclaimer before watching any serial.... even the makers are saying that these are not facts, so why are you debating it...

many facts have been changed during the course of time to suit the circumstances of that time and era... one such is sati pratha... which wasn't advocated in Vedic India but was prevalent during Mughal times, when ladies couldn't protect themselves..., but is still prevalent as if God has ordained it...

its a sin on humanitarian and ethical grounds, with exceptions. during wars and such, weakest person is treated in the most cruel way... those are exceptions in which it might not be a sin... but if such rules weren't there and there was no conscience... people would have had loose morals by now, because they think that they can do anything... would you want to live in such a world??? i would abhor such a world
I find it hilarious that you are not able to comprehend that many shows present issues and topics that can lead to discussions of this kind.  I also find it assuming that you TOO have decided to add your own two cents worth and put forward an opinion as well as information that makes Zero sense to the reader.

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DriftInfinitely

Laila2009 IF-Rockerz
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Posts: 7552

Posted: 16 January 2011 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by soapbubble

Just wanted to elaborate a bit:
One, by all means let's be pro choice. Not everyone is the same and  everyone must make their own personal choices on what they want their lives to be like and what they're willing to compromise on.

If a woman gets accidentally pregnant and doesn't want a baby cluttering her life, that's up to her.
Ditto for situations where the mother's life is threatened, or the baby's health is suspect.

But irrespective of where you're coming from (religion, ethics, humanitarian or societal values), irrespective of what you call it (sin, crime, paap, considered decision) the fact is you're snuffing out a life, deliberately. My point is: the issue is too big to be subject to 'old-fashioned' or 'orthodox' vs 'modern' thinking. Let's not demand that everyone be cool with it so that we can go easy on our collective consciences.
 
Sometimes tough things have to be done but let's not start ratifying it. 
Bubble
Bubble, You ARE not putting forward an objective viewpoint here. When you state that it you are putting out a life, the question is WHEN did this life begin. From medical science it does not start until 16 plus weeks later. Kinjal JUST found out she is pregnant and there is time for her to have an abortion. However, in your eyes once conception has happened, that's it, abortion is a sin.  In essence you're not respecting a person's choice when you put forward just an opinion.

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DriftInfinitely

Laila2009 IF-Rockerz
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Posts: 7552

Posted: 16 January 2011 at 9:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Jake-neil

Originally posted by Laila2009

Originally posted by saomom

Originally posted by Laila2009


Thank you so much for helping me with this information. In the US Christian fundamentalists like Sarah Palin are against abortion even if your child will not be normal.


Wow. I was going to stay out of this discussion until this statement popped up.
That's a pretty broad brush stroke you are taking, along with a lot of assumptions. Pretty thin ice.
Besides that, who is to determine what is 'normal' or not? What 'handicaps' are okay and which are not? Are you telling me that my friend David, who brings incredible joy and happiness to every one he meets, should have been aborted because he has Downs Syndrome? Are you telling me that my friend Evan who has a terrible arthritic condition and can hardly walk should been aborted even though, like David, he is a bright spot to those who know him?   And what about children who are injured and rendered 'handicapped'? Kill them before they become a burden on society? Andrea Bocelli went blind at 12. Can you imagine this world not being blessed by his incredible voice?
Have you ever stopped to consider the blessing of a 'not so normal' child can be?
Uff. "Normal".
I'm done. I will comment no further.

Pro-life arguements for a fan of Sarah Palin. I've hard them all before. So here are some home truths. The fact is a fact, they are not "normal" physically as they are missing the necessary things required to LIVE a normal life. Facts are facts. Learn to live with them. And exactly who is going to look after these handicapped kids that are brought into this world? YOU, the government of India? Even the government of the US and UK can't afford it. So get real.
i think it was not a "pro-life sarah palin" fan talking but just a woman who is against the idea of killing "not so normal" children. And i think you shld respect that. Every religion is against the idea of abortion. Why? There must be a reason. There must also be a reason why children are born physically or mentally challenged. We need to find "that" reason first coz then u will knw that it is not the fault of the kid but the parents.
And why cant a mother look after her child? Why depend on govt? Disabled children are considered as burden and you abandon them. Which itself shows how shallow people are.
I thnk this topic shld be taken to "debate mansion" and not discussed on saathiya forum. As far as saathiya is concerned Gopi was just being a gud human who value "human" rights.
PS : We dont knw what our future holds for us. Any moment even the most "normal" person may become "abnormal". And trust me when i say "any moment". Its just a matter of fate. They say "think lyk a human, be human". And a human have certain "karma" to do..
Jake-Neil, I have no desire to go to the debate mansion since I am takling about the show and the fact the writers of this show are promoting a one-sided viewpoint. And do you know this woman for you to make these points? So what if religions have their viewpoints? We live in a secular society and our laws are NOT based on religion.  Second, our shows are not designed to endorse or push forward one either UNLESS the characters. 
 
A single mother raising a child who is disabled is one thing IF she has financial support and sometimes even BOTH couples can't do it alone - it's clear you don't know of ANYONE who does have disabled child otherwise you'd not make such an ignorant comment.  Second, the character of Gopi Bahu clearly is ignorant and naive. She has no idea that in REAL life, a guy and a family of good reputation is NOT going to accept a girl with a child whom she has had out of wedlock. Let's get real. As modern as Indian and Indians have become, how many girls do you know going around with illegitimate children. I'd really like to know.

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DriftInfinitely

choti_rani Goldie
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Posts: 1090

Posted: 16 January 2011 at 9:29pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Laila2009

Originally posted by saomom

Originally posted by Laila2009

Thank you so much for helping me with this information.  In the US Christian fundamentalists like Sarah Palin are against abortion even if  your child will not be normal. 

Wow.  I was going to stay out of this discussion until this statement popped up.  

That's a pretty broad brush stroke you are taking, along with a lot of assumptions.  Pretty thin ice.

Besides that, who is to determine what is 'normal' or not?  What 'handicaps' are okay and which are not?  Are you telling me that my friend David, who brings incredible joy and happiness to every one he meets, should have been aborted because he has Downs Syndrome?  Are you telling me that my friend Evan who has a terrible arthritic condition and can hardly walk should been aborted even though, like David, he is a bright spot to those who know him?   And what about children who are injured and rendered 'handicapped'?  Kill them before they become a burden on society?  Andrea Bocelli went blind at 12.  Can you imagine this world not being blessed by his incredible voice?

Have you ever stopped to consider the blessing of a 'not so normal' child can be?

Uff.  "Normal".

I'm done.  I will comment no further.
 

Pro-life arguements for a fan of Sarah Palin. I've hard them all before.  So here are some home truths.  The fact is a fact, they are not "normal" physically as they are missing the necessary things required to LIVE a normal life.  Facts are facts.  Learn to live with them. And exactly who is going to look after these handicapped kids that are brought into this world? YOU, the government of India? Even the government of the US and UK can't afford it. So get real.

You define normality in such a broad term. Who is to say what normal is? Many people might disagree with you when you say that their disabled child might not be able to lead a normal life. Many people might define a normal life as a happy life. Their child is happy and that to them might be a normal life. Who are we to pick and choose what normal is and what normal isn't. Technology now might enable us to abort children and to see if a fetus has any abnormalities or not, but that wasn't always the case. People centuries before us learned to live with such handicaps and the world before didn't have such things as medicare and government help programs, but they seemed to get along just fine. I understand that it's difficult financially and emotionally, but what isn't. Based on your case here, you're saying handicap children shouldn't be brought into this world because it's hard to take care of them. I'm sorry to see such ignorance in this world. Are you trying to say that a handicap child has any less of a right to live in this world. What you define as "normal" might turn out to be a murderer or a psycho path so who's to define normality. Are you saying such people have more a right to live in this world simply because their sonogram and tests came out normal. Why don't we just start picking and choosing who gets to live and who doesn't. I for one wouldn't want to live in such a world.

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monalidpbr2499upasana.diyasaomom

Laila2009 IF-Rockerz
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Posts: 7552

Posted: 20 January 2011 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Eesha2

Originally posted by Laila2009

Originally posted by saomom

Originally posted by Laila2009

Thank you so much for helping me with this information.  In the US Christian fundamentalists like Sarah Palin are against abortion even if  your child will not be normal. 

Wow.  I was going to stay out of this discussion until this statement popped up.  

That's a pretty broad brush stroke you are taking, along with a lot of assumptions.  Pretty thin ice.

Besides that, who is to determine what is 'normal' or not?  What 'handicaps' are okay and which are not?  Are you telling me that my friend David, who brings incredible joy and happiness to every one he meets, should have been aborted because he has Downs Syndrome?  Are you telling me that my friend Evan who has a terrible arthritic condition and can hardly walk should been aborted even though, like David, he is a bright spot to those who know him?   And what about children who are injured and rendered 'handicapped'?  Kill them before they become a burden on society?  Andrea Bocelli went blind at 12.  Can you imagine this world not being blessed by his incredible voice?

Have you ever stopped to consider the blessing of a 'not so normal' child can be?

Uff.  "Normal".

I'm done.  I will comment no further.
 

Pro-life arguements for a fan of Sarah Palin. I've hard them all before.  So here are some home truths.  The fact is a fact, they are not "normal" physically as they are missing the necessary things required to LIVE a normal life.  Facts are facts.  Learn to live with them. And exactly who is going to look after these handicapped kids that are brought into this world? YOU, the government of India? Even the government of the US and UK can't afford it. So get real.

You define normality in such a broad term. Who is to say what normal is? Many people might disagree with you when you say that their disabled child might not be able to lead a normal life. Many people might define a normal life as a happy life. Their child is happy and that to them might be a normal life. Who are we to pick and choose what normal is and what normal isn't. Technology now might enable us to abort children and to see if a fetus has any abnormalities or not, but that wasn't always the case. People centuries before us learned to live with such handicaps and the world before didn't have such things as medicare and government help programs, but they seemed to get along just fine. I understand that it's difficult financially and emotionally, but what isn't. Based on your case here, you're saying handicap children shouldn't be brought into this world because it's hard to take care of them. I'm sorry to see such ignorance in this world. Are you trying to say that a handicap child has any less of a right to live in this world. What you define as "normal" might turn out to be a murderer or a psycho path so who's to define normality. Are you saying such people have more a right to live in this world simply because their sonogram and tests came out normal. Why don't we just start picking and choosing who gets to live and who doesn't. I for one wouldn't want to live in such a world.
There are cases that are VERY apparent if a child is going to be normal or NOT and if that child will survive.  There are a number of tests that can be done and it is the RIGHT of the mother to make that choice. She should not be judged for that decision. PRO-CHOICE all the way. The RIGHT is of the mother and father in some instances. EVERYTHING you say is hypothetical - what if, what if, what if. At that time, if the woman WANTs to go ahead, that is her RIGHT and we should support that option, if NOT, then we should support her choice there.

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DriftInfinitely

br2499 Goldie
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Posts: 2288

Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
Hi Laila,

From your posts it looks like you are doing exactly what you dont want the serial to do! I feel that you are forwarding your POV without give any room for debate. There are a lot of points you make. I want to give my two cents on these views. 

Abortion is a very grey area and every decision made is personal. It has to be done only by the parents and nobody else should be allowed to decide - doctors or priests or officials or scientists or even family. This is what is choice. 

When you say pro-choice it appears that the choice is made by others - like doctors, society, govt. etc  Could you also give me the reference for the scientific claim that life starts only at 16 weeks? All the so called medical tests are not error proof. They are all hypothetical. What they tell you is the probability of the fetus/child having developmental problems with an error bar and confidence level. As far as I know there is no 100% confidence for any genetic testing or there is no definition of when life starts. In this case religion and science are almost the same as all data are empirical.

BTW, why do you object to Gopi's POV? She said what she thinks as right - that is it is a sin to abort the fetus. What is wrong in that?  Why do you call it naive and ignorant? She may be biased but not wrong. Tell me who is not biased.   And India is too big a country and it has place for all possible type of people to live. society has a very short memory and always jumps at the next scandal. 

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choti_ranisaomom

Laila2009 IF-Rockerz
Laila2009
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Joined: 27 October 2009
Posts: 7552

Posted: 22 January 2011 at 2:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by br2499

Hi Laila,

From your posts it looks like you are doing exactly what you dont want the serial to do! I feel that you are forwarding your POV without give any room for debate. There are a lot of points you make. I want to give my two cents on these views. 

Abortion is a very grey area and every decision made is personal. It has to be done only by the parents and nobody else should be allowed to decide - doctors or priests or officials or scientists or even family. This is what is choice. 

When you say pro-choice it appears that the choice is made by others - like doctors, society, govt. etc  Could you also give me the reference for the scientific claim that life starts only at 16 weeks? All the so called medical tests are not error proof. They are all hypothetical. What they tell you is the probability of the fetus/child having developmental problems with an error bar and confidence level. As far as I know there is no 100% confidence for any genetic testing or there is no definition of when life starts. In this case religion and science are almost the same as all data are empirical.

BTW, why do you object to Gopi's POV? She said what she thinks as right - that is it is a sin to abort the fetus. What is wrong in that?  Why do you call it naive and ignorant? She may be biased but not wrong. Tell me who is not biased.   And India is too big a country and it has place for all possible type of people to live. society has a very short memory and always jumps at the next scandal. 
b42499 - The show pushed ONE point of VIEW of PRO-LIFE. But you have NO issue regarding this? Gopi's view was PRO-LIFE - did you not notice? Moreoever, for the lead character to promote it is a SIN or a show to push this as one is wrong.
 
Evidently you have no idea what is the meaning of PRO-CHOICE - this is a choice that is made by the individual in question.  You want evidence - there is google and also your biology teacher. But the fact that you believe religion and science is the same, then all knowledge of a scientific nature or tests used and the emperical evidence associated are also wasted. 
monalidp Senior Member
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Posts: 943

Posted: 22 January 2011 at 4:17pm | IP Logged
I wanted to stay away from this discussion but can't help now.
Okay, so Gopi Vahu considers abortion as sin. So? She is an idiot and nobody in MM should have listened to her, right? Koki who is the decision maker of the house and the guard dog of 'khandan ki izzat' just agreed to Gopi Vahu? Guys, its just the CVs using Gopi Vahu to drag their crap story. They don't give a damn about what they are promoting. I am sure they did not think if its PRO-LIFE or PRO-CHOICE (may be because there is no real issue, the pregnancy is fakeTongue).
Imagine what would have happened if Koki had taken Kinjal for abortion. LOL. Kinjal's dirty little secret would have been out and the track would be finished in a week.Confused So clever CVs have used poor Gopi Vahu to take a 'PRO-LIFE' stance so that they can drag this boring track for another couple of weeks.  That's it.
 
Laila, SNS is a different show. It does not address any social issues so don't go looking for any answers here. Tongue Take it easy.

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saomom

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