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Same sex attraction. Should it be stopped? (Page 19)

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 2:46pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rasny

Originally posted by Summer3

Inshallah Rasny Bhai glad you doing good. Must be working now.
Guess sexual preferences are determined by finger lengthsLOL

LOLLOLyes, nice hypothesis for a research.
I'm working now, no more studiesWink

Good. In palmistry finger lengths indicate one's nature. The artistic or practical etc

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Rasny

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Posted: 15 May 2011 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rasny

Originally posted by thickhead

Rasny, Summer ka finger length par vartalap ... daal mein kuchh kala hai kyaTongue
LOLLOL
Nice 2 c u after ages.
vartalap means?Embarrassed




vartalap means 'conversation'.

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 4:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by Summer3

Ah it is a pretty complicated world. But I feel that it should be discouraged as far as possible from young before it gets worse.
In some conservative countries it is treated as a crime.
 


Yes. Please join this Facebook Group discouraging homosexuality - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204465246. If we don't do something now, our world is hurtling towards an apocalypse. Ouch
Yep Gay marriage killed dinosaursLOL
 
 
It think it also spreads aids and soon will be the end for mankind.
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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 8:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Darklord_Rehan

Such outdated laws and practices should be abolished. For once, we must stop being Hindus and Muslims and be a human. But then, unfortunately, there's no religion like humanity.

And who told you that its unnatural? Its very much natural to those people. How can you judge them according to your own tastes, preferences and desires - according to your nature? The same nature who has created you, has created them as well.

And there's nothing to be encouraged or discouraged in this. Its their inborn trait. How will you stop it? By beating them? By incarcerating them? For what crime?
 
 

No it should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our tastes and preferences they too have their own desires. Who are we to stop them?

 

No Burqa wearing should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our preferences they too have their own preferences. Who are we to stop them?

 

No marriage of women to dogs should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our customs they too have their own customs. Who are we to stop them?

 

Few comments

 

1) I sense from your posts that maybe you don't like the fact that such behavior, on which these people have no control, to begin with, is seen as abnormal. However does this mean that we start calling every such behavior normal? Recently on this forum one lady posted that she want to be nude all the time or something like that. If she decides to go nude will you use "aren't they humans too" argument? She had other desires too but I won't go into that.

 

2) It is interesting that on one hand you were against discrimination and calling people abnormal but then you yourself discriminated against certain practices or choices that people make.

 

3) Let me say that life does have reference points (normality) and those have been formed over centuries and we call them values, customs, traditions or laws. Some are universal while other differ based on location, religion or culture. It should not go down to level of individuals.

 

4) We are not calling people abnormal but a certain behavior abnormal. They can be normal otherwise.

 

5) @ nature: I do consider this behavior as unnatural. They can't help it and I get that but that does not make it natural. Human biology does not support female-female interaction and male-male interaction.

 

6) Why do we have to say that either everything is normal or that there is no such thing as normal? We have some norms and yes it is not perfect but it is sure better than treating everything normal. This way you will end up with no laws and constitution lol. We can also not have situation where there is no thing as normal or everyone has their own normal. It will lead to mayhem.

 

7) We cannot use democracy argument as it is a double edge sword. What if the majority votes against legalization of gay marriages?

 

8) We cannot have a system where everything goes in name of freedom. There is no such thing as absolute freedom.

 

In summary, I will say that I realize such things cannot be stopped. I agree with your point that we cannot force or teach someone our values. Also when I said I don't like it I do not mean I looked down at them. I just don't approve of their behavior. They can be better person than me otherwise. What we need to do is to discourage such behavior and not approving gay marriage is a step in that direction. Marriage is a contract which leads to future generation not a full stop.

 

If some think that people like me are narrow minded then that's okay. However in my defense I will say that I am not that. I don't see things in total. As I said if I don't like one thing then it does not mean I reject the whole person. In life sometime people dont like us or have problems with us. We get sensitive about it however later we realize that they cannot be wrong so maybe problem is in us. I think we should see things that way. lol

 

So yeah please don't think I looked down at them or want to change them lol. It has always been my view that, most of the time, those who can change don't need change and those who need change don't change.

 

Hope you will take it in good spirit.



Edited by K-A-L - 16 May 2011 at 10:48am

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 8:54am | IP Logged
Now a days people wanna try lots of new stuffs in their life...but I dont understand sometime, What's the point of being a lesbian if a woman is going to look and act like an imitation man and vice versa..!!!?Ermm
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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
This was not directed to me, but I'm taking a stab at it.

Originally posted by K-A-L

No marriage of women to dogs should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our customs they too have their own customs. Who are we to stop them?

A dog is not a consenting adult human being. Comparing human/human interaction to human/dog interaction is illogical.


Originally posted by K-A-L


1) I sense from your posts that maybe you don't like the fact that such behavior, on which these people have no control, to begin with, is seen as abnormal. However does this mean that we start calling every such behavior normal? Recently on this forum one lady posted that she want to be nude all the time or something like that. If she decides to go nude will you use "aren't they humans too" argument? She had other desires too but I won't go into that.

There is a wide range of human behaviors. Some behaviors are less common than the others.

Psychologically and socially deviant behaviors that are harmless are acceptable; but those that inflict harm are criminal.

The lady who wishes to be nude has the right to be nude, even if it is unusual. That is her adult conscious choice. However, we also have the right to not see nude people we don't want to. So the lady will have to be nude in her private home, or only in front of people willing to see her nude. 

Similarly a person wishing to marry someone of the same gender is not forcing us to marry them or even attend the marriage. If they choose to get married, they have the right to.

Originally posted by K-A-L


2) It is interesting that on one hand you were against discrimination and calling people abnormal but then you yourself discriminated against certain practices or choices that people make.

I'm not sure what practices Rehan was referring to. However, if a practice is unfairly discriminatory against humans (sati, untouchability, segregation) then I would oppose those practices.

Originally posted by K-A-L

 

3) Let me say that life does have reference points (normality) and those have been formed over centuries and we call them values, customs, traditions or laws. Some are universal while other differ based on location, religion or culture. It should not go down to level of individuals.

Expecting an entire population to follow the norms of one religion or culture is characteristic of theocracy, autocracy, oligarchies and such. Free democratic society lets each individual do as they wish as long as those actions do not harm others.   

Originally posted by K-A-L

  4) We are not calling people abnormal but a certain behavior abnormal. They can be normal otherwise.

I won't disagree here as homosexuality is estimated to be only 10%. So it would fall outside the remaining 90% distribution curve of straight people. 

Originally posted by K-A-L

  5) @ nature: I do consider this behavior as unnatural. They can't help it and I get that but that does not make it natural. Human biology does not support female-female interaction and male-male interaction.

If it exists in nature it is natural. Human biology completely supports these interactions for recreation or intimacy purposes, but not for procreation purposes. But then there are several other biologies like infertility, old age etc that do not support procreation.

Originally posted by K-A-L

6) Why do we have to say that either everything is normal or that there is no such thing as normal? We have some norms and yes it is not perfect but it is sure better than treating everything normal. This way you will end up with no laws and constitution lol. We can also not have situation where there is no thing as normal or everyone has their own normal. It will lead to mayhem.

The argument for gay marriage is not calling to abolish any law or constitution. It is calling for the constitution to be fair and equitable.

On one hand the law says all adults has the right to marry (except minors, within the family or multiple). Then why make exceptions because the adults happen to be of the same gender. Why should a law discriminate against people? 

Originally posted by K-A-L

7) We cannot use democracy argument as it is a double edge sword. What if the majority votes against legalization of gay marriages?

Democracy is not always pure majority based. Sometimes leaders have to act against the majority for collective good. There was a time interracial marriage was illegal per the majority, there was a time segregation and racial discrimination was legal per majority. These discriminations were wrong and few people opposed the majority.

Just like some people prohibit interracial marriages in their family or at their churches, they can prohibit gay marriages within their personal domain, not for all of society.

 

Originally posted by K-A-L

8) We cannot have a system where everything goes in name of freedom. There is no such thing as absolute freedom.

As I always say as long as there is no harm inflicted on others, people have their right to their conscientious choices. 

Originally posted by K-A-L

In summary, I will say that I realize such things cannot be stopped. I agree with your point that we cannot force or teach someone our values. Also when I said I don't like it I do not mean I looked down at them. I just don't approve of their behavior. They can be better person than me otherwise.

I appreciate that attitude because it is respectful to all humans equally.

Originally posted by K-A-L

What we need to do is to discourage such behavior and not approving gay marriage is a step in that direction.

I'm curious why you believe it needs to be discouraged?

Originally posted by K-A-L

Marriage is a contract which leads to future generation not a full stop.

Are you willing to make laws that make it mandatory for fertility tests so that only people able to procreate can marry? No one should have the right to marry for love or companionship purposes, just future generations. 

 

Originally posted by K-A-L

If some think that people like me are narrow minded then that's okay. However in my defense I will say that I am not that. I don't see things in total. As I said if I don't like one thing then it does not mean I reject the whole person. In life sometime people dont like us or have problems with us. We get sensitive about it however later we realize that they cannot be wrong so maybe problem is in us. I think we should see things that way. lol

 

So yeah please don't think I looked down at them or want to change them lol. It has always been my view that, most of the time, those who can change don't need change and those who need change don't change.

 

Hope you will take it in good spirit.



Its a different opinion and I strongly oppose it, but I don't consider it narrow minded. Its what you believe. I don't understand how or why, but as long as it does not lead to hatred then you have every right to feel the way you do and express your opinions.
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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 1:25pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by K-A-L

No it should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our tastes and preferences they too have their own desires. Who are we to stop them?

 

No Burqa wearing should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our preferences they too have their own preferences. Who are we to stop them?

Wearing Burkha is not a preference, its a meaningless custom. Women wear it only because they are expected to do so by the patriarchs of the society. In some societies, women are punished for not wearing Burkha. So I am against such fanaticism and discrimination. Give me one reason why should women wear Burkha? Is being woman a matter of shame that she needs to hide her face?

 

No marriage of women to dogs should not be stopped. Aren't they human beings too? Just like we have our customs they too have their own customs. Who are we to stop them?


I never spoke of customs, I spoke of nature. Customs are created by narrow minded men, nature is created by God. Any custom which makes no sense or derides a race or is discriminatory should be abolished.

 

Few comments

 

1) I sense from your posts that maybe you don't like the fact that such behavior, on which these people have no control, to begin with, is seen as abnormal. However does this mean that we start calling every such behavior normal? Recently on this forum one lady posted that she want to be nude all the time or something like that. If she decides to go nude will you use "aren't they humans too" argument? She had other desires too but I won't go into that.

Posing nude is a choice. Homosexuality or heterosexuality is not a choice. Its an inborn trait. One can't make any difference by shunning those people or punishing them, ofcourse other than displaying his/her own illiteracy and low thinking.

 

2) It is interesting that on one hand you were against discrimination and calling people abnormal but then you yourself discriminated against certain practices or choices that people make.

Read my above comment about customs and nature. I never discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex or trait. Because these things are not in one's hand. But yeah, if somebody practices any nonsense custom which has no logical explanation or is derisive and regressive, I'll oppose it. We can change customs by rebuking them. Many evil customs had been changed by revolutionaries but you can't change a homosexual into a heterosexual. Can you?

 

3) Let me say that life does have reference points (normality) and those have been formed over centuries and we call them values, customs, traditions or laws. Some are universal while other differ based on location, religion or culture. It should not go down to level of individuals.

No life doesn't have any normality. As I gave the example of sphere, our earth too is a sphere (well nearlyLOL) and so nothing is normal. Its us who use such words to convince ourselves that we are normal and those who are different from us are abnormal.

 

4) We are not calling people abnormal but a certain behavior abnormal. They can be normal otherwise.

Refer to above repliesEmbarrassed

5) @ nature: I do consider this behavior as unnatural. They can't help it and I get that but that does not make it natural. Human biology does not support female-female interaction and male-male interaction.

Once again, you are judging other's behaviour with your own nature as a yardstick. Human biology very much supports Homosexuality or even bisexuality and that's precisely the reason why these people are homosexual and bisexual, just like we are heterosexual. Biology is not merely human anatomy, it also constitutes human brain. And their brain responds to homosexual behaviour just like our brain responds to heterosexuality. Do you know most of the people working for LGBT rights are themselves doctors?

 

6) Why do we have to say that either everything is normal or that there is no such thing as normal? We have some norms and yes it is not perfect but it is sure better than treating everything normal. This way you will end up with no laws and constitution lol. We can also not have situation where there is no thing as normal or everyone has their own normal. It will lead to mayhem.

Laws and constitution should be based on the principles of equality and justice and not narrow minded and illogical beliefs. Look at Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc. These countries have framed their laws on religious beliefs and see the extent of lawlessness in their country. Laws should be based on humanity and not religion or traditions. If some irrelevant or repulsive tradition is practiced in the society, its the job of the law to prevent it instead of encouraging it. I don't think homosexuality is a crime in any way and even the Supreme Court itself has agreed to that. SC declared that discrimination against or rebuking Homosexuals for their sexuality itself is anti-constitutional and tantamount to caste and gender discrimination.

 

7) We cannot use democracy argument as it is a double edge sword. What if the majority votes against legalization of gay marriages?

Democracy is based on the principle of equality and justice and that should be placed above everything else. If people's minds are clogged with unjust and illogical ideas, they must be educated with proper guidance. That's the job of an able leader. The decision of framing law is not made by public. Its made by Parliament and upheld by Supreme Court. And guess what. Both of these bodies have applauded legalization of homosexuality as a step forward.

 

8) We cannot have a system where everything goes in name of freedom. There is no such thing as absolute freedom.

You are right. What is wrong should be prohibited, but the decision of wrong and right should be made on the basis of logic and scientific proof and not traditional beliefs or customs. That is why I think many religious practices needs to be abolished by the law as they are unjust, discriminatory and senseless and they drive us towards illiteracy.

 

In summary, I will say that I realize such things cannot be stopped. I agree with your point that we cannot force or teach someone our values. Also when I said I don't like it I do not mean I looked down at them. I just don't approve of their behavior. They can be better person than me otherwise. What we need to do is to discourage such behavior and not approving gay marriage is a step in that direction. Marriage is a contract which leads to future generation not a full stop.

Marriage is a bond of love and affection. Please do not insult this institution by calling it a contract. A marriage where love and affection is absent, can lead only to mutual dismay and often turns into an abusive relationship. Many parents marry off their homosexual kids to the opposite sex, believing that it would 'make' them heterosexual. Is that possible? Can such marriages work? Will anyone be happy in such a relationship? So isn't it better to let the homosexuals be happy in their own way? If heterosexuals can marry according to their nature, why can't homosexuals? Why should they be deprived of their share of happiness, which by the constitution is their right as well?

I don't understand why people are so averse or scared to legalizing Homosexual marriage. How will it harm them? Do they think that by encouraging homosexual unions, they will 'turn' into homosexuals? If so, then they are fools. Homosexuals or Heterosexuals can't be 'made' they are born so. Neither is homosexuality a contagious disease nor an addiction that can be induced. So even if Homosexual marriage is legalized, Heterosexuals will continue to be heterosexual and will love and marry opposite sex and give birth to babies as they had always done and generations will continue. That is why I think moral education and awareness is imperative to make people understand certain facts and remove umpteen misconceptions.

 

If some think that people like me are narrow minded then that's okay. However in my defense I will say that I am not that. I don't see things in total. As I said if I don't like one thing then it does not mean I reject the whole person. In life sometime people dont like us or have problems with us. We get sensitive about it however later we realize that they cannot be wrong so maybe problem is in us. I think we should see things that way. lol

 

So yeah please don't think I looked down at them or want to change them lol. It has always been my view that, most of the time, those who can change don't need change and those who need change don't change.

My advice to you is for once, think logically, go through scientific details and published works regarding homosexuality and then form your opinion. You know, when I was in school, I too used to mock effeminate classmates of mine, called them homosexuals and I often used the word Gay in a derogatory manner. I too considered it unnatural and abnormal and was proud that I am normal. But now I realize that I was nothing more than an ignorant idiot and I understood nothing but I am happy as well that I learned from my mistakes.Big smile

 

Hope you will take it in good spirit.



Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 17 May 2011 at 4:22am

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Posted: 16 May 2011 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
I have watched a documentary regarding homophobic concept in Uganda. I guess government of Uganda going to introduce death penalty for those being gay/lesbian. 

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