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Discussion: The Pride of Radha and the Gopis (Page 3)

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
Thanks di! That cleared some doubts in my head. I was thinking about that article all day long, worried.  Haha, being fifteen is difficult. I didn't really mean to doubt a Goddess, but I am trying to find a better understanding of my own faith.




Edited by AishuJSKfan - 09 July 2011 at 10:09pm

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 5:05pm | IP Logged
Sooo much fun stuff has happened here since I reserved that post a page ago that I'm gonna go ahead and type up a new one, leaving that one as is... sorry about the waste of space LOL

@ Aishu - the origin and authenticity of Radharani is a matter of confusion for many, hun... don't be too hard on yourself, nobody's offended Tongue The confusion arises because all of the Puraans originated as oral scriptures, not texts - so to put a date on when people started reciting them is much harder than if they were on paper. However Vaishnav scholars usually date all of them in B.C.E., long before Jayadevji wrote his Gita Govind. And one of them - the Brahma Vaivart Puraan - talks about Radha in great detail. If your interested, I wrote lots more on it and provided some links here: http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1534046&PID=35953415&#35953415 Moreover, as Janu beautifully put it, it doesn't really matter that Jayadev was a court bard - the author's occupation should have no bearing on the authenticity of his work when it comes to devotional literature, because there were no New York Times bestseller lists and TRPs back then for which people would want to spin fiction around God. He wasn't going to help them sell products because no one was buying them then - if they were writing about Him (or Her in this case LOL), it was probably out of their own personal devotional experience.

@ Vedo - yayyyy, so glad to hear you've been watching Shri Krishna too Dancing You should totally start a diary thread like Janu's or participate in hers, we'd all love to know how you feel about it! Hmmm you're on 33 - the Janmasthami epis - hence the other thread you made, I get it LOL Unfortunately the guy who's putting it up in HQ on youtube is only picking and choosing short clips that summarize the main story, it's not the whole series Disapprove But the dailymotion quality does improve not too far from where you've reached, as you'll see in the clip Janu provided - I would stick with dailymotion only because it's from the original uncut version of the series, the dvds and the vids that most YT uploaders have gotten from them are missing a lot of good stuff. Still, for avis and pics and stuff that guy's channel is really useful... so here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/user/drsaurabhparikh

@... everyone, I guess LOL - I basically second everything Vedo said in her contribution to this discussion, and I couldn't have said it better myself Clap We have plenty of instances like this, when God plays dumb in one form (or in this case, jealous) so that in another, he can teach us a valuable lesson.

For example, in Ramayan Parvati Maa is always becoming bewildered by Shri Ram's leela and asking Shivji questions about it (the ones that NDTV Ramayan's Shivji veryyy often answered by saying "vidhi ka vidhaan"). Was she ever really confused and did she herself really need the wisdom he gave her? I don't think so. He is Shaktimay, she is his Shakti. They are inseparable so for her to really have any less knowledge than he does would not make any sense. In this form, in their RadheShyam form, and wherever else we see this kind of behavior coming from a form of the divine, I believe it's all about teaching us a lesson.

On a practical daily life level, I agree that the lesson was what Vedo said it was - that pride and the jealousy that comes from it are dangerous and need to be overcome as soon as they arise.

On a spiritual level though, at least in the serial, this episode was part of an ongoing explanation of dwait and adwait. It started right after the "Aaja re Kanhaiya tohe Radha banaadun" leela of RadheShyam swapping clothes. From then on, for a couple of beautiful scenes we have Shri Krishna essentially telling us about the peacefulness of adwait (dwelling in the oneness of the jiva and the Paramatma) and Radharani glorifies and exemplifies the depth and the fun of stormy dwait (considering the jiva to be separate from and devoted to God). So this episode - which kind of gives closure to the debate and then summarizes it in the song Prem Jagat Ka Saar - presents the conclusion that both are equivalent, and in fact both are the same because they start and end with God - so accepting that and harmonizing both in our way of thinking and our way of life, we can enjoy supreme devotional bliss.

Radharani realizes that adwait/nonduality is the truth about her relationship with the other gopis, they are all manifestations of her only so harboring any jealousy or ill-will towards them is ignorant and futile. However, at the end of the scene she does get Shri Krishna to acknowledge that the intense love she has for Him due to her dwait/dualistic understanding of their nature is what keeps the world going - he admits, "ek prem ke aage hi to Bhagwan bhi haarte hain" Day Dreaming So, for us, this means that we should realize that we and everyone else in the world are reflections of the same truth - like the gopis were of Radha - and on account of that unity, we should abandon any useless arrogance/jealously/ill-will/any other negative feelings we have towards them... and at the same time, by having a dualistic understanding of God as our master/friend/beloved and engaging in pure devotion towards Him, we can experience that boundless bliss that comes with it and get the best of both worlds!

So that's my interpretation of this leela... hope it was short enough LOL

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
Thanks Lola di! I'll definitely try to read the entire Brahma Vaivarta Puranam! As of yet, I've only read the Wikipedia description of it after you posted this. Thanks so much di! You don't know how much this helps!

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by AishuJSKfan

Thanks di! That cleared some doubts in my head. I was thinking about that article all day long, worried.  Haha, being fifteen is difficult. I didn't really mean to doubt a Goddess, but I am trying to find a better understanding of my own faith.

Aishu, I think that this is a phase that every devotee must go through in order to make their faith stronger! We should all listen to our elders, read from the texts and learn from all sources but we can only accept what our hearts let us right? If from our hearts we don't accept something then how can we believe in it on the outside?  It doesn't work that way. Another thing...Shri Krishna resides in our heart right? So I don't think he would make a devotee of his believe in something that is wrong. If we truly believe in him he would never lead us astray. Heart Take it all as a test to reaffirm your faith.



Edited by Vedo - 07 January 2011 at 6:00pm

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
Thanks Vedo! That's really good advice! I mean I grew up listening to stories from my mom. But I still want to read the geeta and the puranas so that I can get a better understanding of what I'm believing in. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really do seriously love Krishna.

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Posted: 07 January 2011 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
I second Lola on everything she said.Clap Don't be so hard on yourself Aishu, you have not offended anyone. In fact, you've stated your opinion so sweetly and innocently that no one can be angry at you.Hug Lola wrote perfectly that profession, race, language, color, etc.....nothing matters in the Kingdom of God....lol, I prob sound like a Christian missionary right nowLOL, but the message is the same. True bhakti is all God wants, so any man or woman can be gifted enough to write puranas if he/she is blessed with divya drishti and all.
 
And if by chance someone makes up a God or Goddess for some reason for their own twisted enjoyment, that so called purana will not survive for long because the essence of God will be lost in it. No one can make up God and expect him to be prayed to by millions of people for long. Eventually God will bring out the truth through some Maharishi or Saint. Radharani is as famous as Devi Sita and Rukmini Ma. Millions of men and women pray to her daily and receive the fruit of their prayers, so she cannot be fictional. No matter which purana describes her or does not, the essence of her remains the same...after all, scriptures are only the written word of God...but if by chance one day they happen to be destroyed, all the Gods and Goddess (who are in reality only one divine being) will not be gone...their essence will always remain, they will remain, their teachings will remain, and so will their blessings.Smile There are probably 100s more avatars of God that our puranas have not taken note of because a Saint did not yet write them down, but that does not make them fictional. They still happened, and if we are lucky enough we will learn of them in this lifetime. The story of Radha and Krishna too is the same....thanks to some Saint, we are able to learn more and more about them everyday and immerse ourselves in the divine love and happiness of their leelas.
 
Btw, the doubts you are having is not some teen thing, so don't worry.LOL Many adults also have the same doubt....doubts pertaining to religion are not tied down to age. I have seen many young children have a lot more knowledge in the Hindu scriptures than some grown adults....it all has to do with how much passion you have in researching our puranas.Smile As you grow older, you will obviously learn more and more if you are interested in the subject, but that does not mean young people are ignorant about the scriptures.

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Posted: 08 January 2011 at 11:33am | IP Logged
Lovely topic! Haven't been on IF for a few days so I'm a little late in replying, but love where you're going with this and will be back to reply :D

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Posted: 09 January 2011 at 8:00pm | IP Logged
Nice topic :)
Reserved.

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