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Mujhe Kuch Kehna Hai (Page 76)

*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
*Woh Ajnabee*
*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 11:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by zorrro

^^ the freedom thing goes overboard in the US


Well, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights do grant Americans those freedoms (with good intention, in my opinion), however, you can argue that it is Americans who perhaps go overboard with these rights. At the end of the day, we can all disagree with these forms of protest, but symbolic speech is a freedom granted to every American - whether they express themselves by burning the American flag or burning the Quran. Unfortunately, insanity is not restricted to one nation and instead there are crazy people everywhere ... what can you do?

*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
Will someone be kind enough to write me a paper on the ecology and evolution of the Gopherus berlandieri? kthanxbye!
CunningLinguist IF-Sizzlerz

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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 2:11pm | IP Logged
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*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 2:25pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Emptiness

Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*

What kind of Islam is this man practicing!?! Who has brainwashed him into believing that the life he is leading is the right one that his beliefs are what Islam truly preaches? This is such an unfortunate example! I like the step-brother ... he does not protest the fact that his brother converted to Islam, but instead he wonders why his brother isn't an "ordinary Muslim".



But isn't it the case that all sects and schools of thoughts believe that they are following the "true" Islam as oppose to the others.  People interpret scripture either literally, metaphorically, or both, and it also depends on the individual's religiosity, how far are they willing to follow a religion, do they want to adapt the teachings to modern life, or do they want to live the 7th century lifestyle.

It would've been interesting to know why and how Richard was drawn to this version of Islam, the psychology behind it.


That is the case for any human being following any religious sect, not just Muslims. We all hold very firm beliefs and to us, whatever we believe in IS the right path, the right way. However, God (or Nature to be more politically correct) has given us the power to reason, and interpretation has been left open to us. I am not saying that I am a better Muslim because I understand the faith more than people like Richard, but I am saying that there is a level of common sense that we are given ... Richard's version of Islam does not make sense to me. In the video, it is said that he follows a "strict interpretation" of the Quran ... but nowhere in the Quran does it say to shake hands with Non-Muslims using your "dirty" hand or to not watch sports or to not be a police officer. Then how can we call that a literal interpretation?

Other faiths like Christianity, Hinduism, etc. also face the same issue.
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Emptiness



His etiquettes viz shaking hands with non-Muslims and sports etc are questionable, and I agree that it's not mentioned in the Quran, but Islam isn't just Quran is it, it's also includes the Sunnah, and many beliefs are also derived from the hadiths.  I'm not saying that shaking hands with non-Muslims with the left hand is in the hadiths, I simply don't know. 

I think that's his own way of interacting with non-Muslims, and let's be honest, the Quran doesn't really speak of non-Muslims in favourable terms, so his contempt for non-Muslims and their way of life is understandable from a puritanical point of view.  I don't know if you've read the Quran or not, but there are verses which states not to take unbelievers as friends, now you could argue that the verse needs to be contextualised, you may argue that it's was applicable then, but not now... but you can understand from the literalist perspective, someone whom believes that the Quran is a message for all mankind and applicable for all times, why he'd take that as face value, and not befriend non-Muslims.


There are a few hadiths (which contain teachings of the Prophet as recorded by those closest to him at the time) that are considered accurate recordings and the rest are usually questioned. It is said that not all hadith represent accurate descriptions of the Prophet's life and therefore should not be trusted. Regardless, I have never heard of one that promotes using their "dirty" hand to shake hands with non-Muslims nor one that discourages sports. In my opinion, 99% of Islam comes from the Quran and the Hadith are really a very small fraction of Islam (comparatively speaking). Also, the Quran does not ask us to follow Hadith, but Muslims do because of the fascination with Prophet Mohammad and his life/sayings/teachings/etc.

@ Bold red: I completely disagree with that statement. If you pick up the Quran and read it, you will find statements like the following:

"God does not forbid you, to act fairly towards those who have never fought you over religion nor have driven you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them." [60:8]

"Do not argue with the People of the Book, unless it is in the politest manner." [29:46]

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things)." [8:61]

"God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong." [60:9]

Muslims are even allowed to marry Non-Muslims:

"This day, are all things good and pure made lawful to you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful onto you and yours is lawful onto them. Lawful onto you in marriage are not only chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book revealed before your time." [5:6]

I don't think Richard's contempt for non-Muslims is understandable from any point of view ... did he not read the above statements in the Quran? Shouldn't these statements also be taken at face value in a strict interpretation?

I know that when you refer to statements that refer to not consider unbelievers as friends, you are referring to verses such as this:

"When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them." [9:5]

But you have to realize that the Quran was not revealed all in one go. It was revealed in parts at different times in history. Verses like the one I posted above are referring to the Battle of Badr, where non-Muslims from Mecca traveled to Medinah to fight the Muslims. There, it was said to fight for yourselves and to fight for your faith. These are not general guidelines to follow, but rather an excerpt from history. This passage was revealed to Prophet Mohammad right during this battle and these were the commands from God at that time. Therefore, it IS important to make sure that you do not pull these quotes out of context from the Quran. Because right after this verse above, the following verse states:

"But the treaties are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom you have entered into alliance and who have you subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God Loves the righteous." [9:4]

Especially with Christians and Jews who are considered "People of the Book", and who follow the books that Muslims believed were revealed to both prophets - Moses and Jesus - how can Muslims not be "friends" with them or consider them "unbelievers"?

-Believe- IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 11:25pm | IP Logged
 
 
God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts...Ermm


Edited by Believe - 10 April 2011 at 4:55am
thickhead Senior Member
thickhead
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Posted: 10 April 2011 at 6:25am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Believe

God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts...Ermm

God wants spiritual mango or religious kela .. ye to god ko hi pata hoga na ? Why form conclusions regarding something that is unknown & unverifiable.

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