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Mujhe Kuch Kehna Hai (Page 75)

*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
*Woh Ajnabee*
*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 08 April 2011 at 5:25pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by hindu4lyf

I have a few questions after watching that vid and I'd love to get some answers.

People in Kashmir are often seen burning the Indian flag. They are against the idea of being associated with India but why do these so-called Muslims burn the American flag? You hate Bush? Burn his effigy, but why burn and then spit on the American flag?

How can someone possibly hate the country that they've grown up in SO much?

One last question. The guy in the vid says that when he greets non-Muslims, he greets them with his left hand because it's known to be 'dirty' whereas he greets Muslims with his right hands as they are 'clean'. I've never observed it but do most Muslims in general do that too or is it just the extreme ones?


Dia, I cannot watch the videos you posted, but I can attempt to answer some of your questions:

1. Flag Burning is considered symbolic speech in the United States, and the First Amendment protects the right to freedom of speech for all Americans. I believe in the case of Texas v. Johnson (and one other case following this one - that I can't remember the name of right now) ruled that a government cannot prohibit flag burning or flag desecration of any kind because it is considered symbolic speech. Whether or not we approve of the idea, it is something that American have the right to do, and it is done in order to protest against the government, etc. You and I may not approve of the idea, but it is important to understand that ALL Americans (including American Muslims) have the right to commit this act.

2. How can someone hate the country they grew up in?

I agree. I do not understand this mentality. From Islam's perspective, Islam instills in Muslims love for one's country, and defines this as a 'good trait', led in example by the Prophet. Good citizenship is found in the very heart of Islam. In fact, disrespecting the national anthem and the flag of a country, is considered by all means sinful and ignorant. Islam, if you actually research this, states that patriotism is a necessity. Even Muslims living in a non-Muslim country, should by all means, honor the laws of the country they live in, its national anthem, and its flag. Doing so does not make them non-Muslim, or supportive on any actions taken upon by that nation.

In fact, Islam wants you to understand that patriotism is important. You should love the country you live in - Muslim or Non-Muslim. If you feel that its doing something that goes against your beliefs, then don't participate, but respect it. Patriotism, by all means, is in fact, encouraged.

3. Shaking Hands with Non-Muslims:

That is the first time that I have heard such a ridiculous notion. There is really no such thing that exists except in corrupted and dirty minds. Why don't you read this article: http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/religion/nonmuslim_ffares.htm

I also want to share this video with you (and anyone else reading this):


hindu4lyf IF-Rockerz
hindu4lyf
hindu4lyf

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Posted: 08 April 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*

Originally posted by hindu4lyf

I have a few questions after watching that vid and I'd love to get some answers.

People in Kashmir are often seen burning the Indian flag. They are against the idea of being associated with India but why do these so-called Muslims burn the American flag? You hate Bush? Burn his effigy, but why burn and then spit on the American flag?

How can someone possibly hate the country that they've grown up in SO much?

One last question. The guy in the vid says that when he greets non-Muslims, he greets them with his left hand because it's known to be 'dirty' whereas he greets Muslims with his right hands as they are 'clean'. I've never observed it but do most Muslims in general do that too or is it just the extreme ones?


Dia, I cannot watch the videos you posted, but I can attempt to answer some of your questions:

1. Flag Burning is considered symbolic speech in the United States, and the First Amendment protects the right to freedom of speech for all Americans. I believe in the case of Texas v. Johnson (and one other case following this one - that I can't remember the name of right now) ruled that a government cannot prohibit flag burning or flag desecration of any kind because it is considered symbolic speech. Whether or not we approve of the idea, it is something that American have the right to do, and it is done in order to protest against the government, etc. You and I may not approve of the idea, but it is important to understand that ALL Americans (including American Muslims) have the right to commit this act.

2. How can someone hate the country they grew up in?

I agree. I do not understand this mentality. From Islam's perspective, Islam instills in Muslims love for one's country, and defines this as a 'good trait', led in example by the Prophet. Good citizenship is found in the very heart of Islam. In fact, disrespecting the national anthem and the flag of a country, is considered by all means sinful and ignorant. Islam, if you actually research this, states that patriotism is a necessity. Even Muslims living in a non-Muslim country, should by all means, honor the laws of the country they live in, its national anthem, and its flag. Doing so does not make them non-Muslim, or supportive on any actions taken upon by that nation.

In fact, Islam wants you to understand that patriotism is important. You should love the country you live in - Muslim or Non-Muslim. If you feel that its doing something that goes against your beliefs, then don't participate, but respect it. Patriotism, by all means, is in fact, encouraged.

3. Shaking Hands with Non-Muslims:

That is the first time that I have heard such a ridiculous notion. There is really no such thing that exists except in corrupted and dirty minds. Why don't you read this article: http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/religion/nonmuslim_ffares.htm

I also want to share this video with you (and anyone else reading this):



I really wish you could see the vid Ajnu. It's about a white middle class man who was born and brought up in an area that is dominated by white people and when he came to London, he discovered Islam and is now considered an extremist. The thing that worries me so much is that I have this notion in my mind about what an extremist should be like. I have this pre-conceived notion that they are angry people, who have no sense of direction but the guy in the video is unbelievably calm and everything he says, he says with so much confidence. There's a young guy in the vid who is also a revert and the funny thing is he seems like such a nice guy. A guy who was genuinely interested in the TRUE version of Islam. The Islam that teaches you that life isn't all about sex, drugs and alcohol and there is much more to life and that 'much more' is not jehad! However, when he comes over to London and joins all these 'Muslim brothers', starts handing out leaflets telling people they should protest against democracy, starts spitting on to American flag and screaming in joy when it gets burnt then it just makes you think how easy it is for people to go from being a moderate Muslim to an extremist. It's also sad that something so noble can turn in to something so dangerous.

Coming back to the points being discussed. Thank you for answering all my questions!
I wonder how burning any flag - American or British can do anything to support any cause. In my opinion all it does is incite hatred in people and the hatred is covered up by giving it the name of 'freedom of speech'Dead

I totally get that people people are unhappy with the laws at times, they hate corrupt politicians, they hate democracy but to hate your country so much? The guy in the video was saying that he was very glad that England lost 4-1 in the football world cup because it teaches people a lesson that they shouldn't believe in the values of nationalism. 

Thank you for that video..it just makes you pause and think for a while how differently people interpret things and how it makes such a huge difference.

Here's the video on YT..it's long but if you do get through it, then let me know what you think

*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
*Woh Ajnabee*
*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posts: 22970

Posted: 08 April 2011 at 7:08pm | IP Logged
What kind of Islam is this man practicing!?! Who has brainwashed him into believing that the life he is leading is the right one that his beliefs are what Islam truly preaches? This is such an unfortunate example! I like the step-brother ... he does not protest the fact that his brother converted to Islam, but instead he wonders why his brother isn't an "ordinary Muslim".

Protesting the return of soldiers from war is disgusting. It is one thing to protest war, but another thing to be so unsympathetic and disrespectful. Its like the *Westboro Baptist Church* folks here in the US who protest at army funerals. And not watching sports because it is against Islam - excuse me!?! Perhaps Prophet Mohammad did not play/watch sports because most of these sports were not around back then!

And Islam does not allow you to be a police officer - what the hell is this? Has this man picked up the Quran and actually ever read it? Six months are not nearly enough to be this confident about a faith - it takes people their whole lives to truly understand the meaning of their faith/religion. Why is this man so sure that what he believes is right? Its like the learning process is over.

When he tells his brother that the only relationship they share is that of dawah - it breaks my heart. I wonder what weaknesses and insecurities people like Richard share that allows others to influence/brainwash him with so much conviction. What really bothers me is that he thinks the moderate Muslims are wrong and he treats them like non-Muslims as well. He realizes that being "Islamist" (whatever that means) is not the normal path for a Muslim, yet he still pursues it without question.

Saying InshAllah and Alhumdulilah does not make you a Muslim. And what really bothers me is the number of times he uses these words and completely in the wrong context sometimes.

Thanks for sharing the video with me ... I could not stop watching once I started watching it.


Edited by *Woh Ajnabee* - 09 April 2011 at 10:43am
-Believe- IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 08 April 2011 at 11:13pm | IP Logged

A Sufi story: The philosophers, logicians and doctors of law were drawn up at court to examine Mulla Nasrudin. This was a serious case, because he had admitted going from village to village saying: "The so-called wise men are ignorant, irresolute and confused." He was charged with undermining the security of the state.

"You may speak first," said the King.
"Have paper and pens brought," said the Mulla.

Paper and pens were brought.

"Give some to each of the first seven savants."

They were distributed.

"Have them write separately an answer to this question:
'What is bread?'"

This was done. The papers were handed to the King, who read them out:

The first said: "Bread is a food."
The second: "It is flour and water."
The third: "A gift of God."
The fourth: "Baked dough."
The fifth: "Changeable, according to how you mean 'bread'."
The sixth: "A nutritious substance."
The seventh: "Nobody really knows."

"When they decide what bread is," said Nasruddin, "It will be possible for them to decide other things. 

For example, whether I am right or wrong. Can you entrust matters of assessment and judgement to people like this? Is it or is it not strange that they cannot agree about something which they eat each day, and yet are unanimous that I am a heretic?"

Yes, that is the situation of your so-called philosophers, theologians, doctors of law: the learned people. They are parrots. They have not even known themselves yet – what else can they know? They are not even acquainted with themselves – how can they be acquainted with others? They have not unravelled the mystery that they are.

chal_phek_mat Senior Member
chal_phek_mat
chal_phek_mat

Joined: 07 March 2008
Posts: 953

Posted: 09 April 2011 at 8:22am | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*


Its like the Tea Party folks here in the US who protest at army funerals. 
 
Correction:
The folks protesting at the army funerals are not "Tea Party folks"  they belong to Westboro Baptist Church , out of Kansas.
 
Now most Tea party folks are  right leaning, church going members. but that do not automatically make them members of the Wesboro Baptist Church. I can safely say I know a lot of folks that belong to the hard left, hard right, Democrats or Republicans or Tea Party folks, but one thing in common I havent met one who likes or even accepts the thought of protesting at anyone's funeral.
 
I havent watched the video's but Speaking of Flag burning, I am hoping they also  ok with people burning the Koran or a Bible or a Bhagwad Gita since it is a similar form of a protest, neither of which I support, but I fully agree with the rights of the folks to do either
 

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zorrro

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*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 09 April 2011 at 10:42am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*


Its like the Tea Party folks here in the US who protest at army funerals. 
 
Correction:
The folks protesting at the army funerals are not "Tea Party folks"  they belong to Westboro Baptist Church , out of Kansas.
 
Now most Tea party folks are  right leaning, church going members. but that do not automatically make them members of the Wesboro Baptist Church. I can safely say I know a lot of folks that belong to the hard left, hard right, Democrats or Republicans or Tea Party folks, but one thing in common I havent met one who likes or even accepts the thought of protesting at anyone's funeral.
 
I havent watched the video's but Speaking of Flag burning, I am hoping they also  ok with people burning the Koran or a Bible or a Bhagwad Gita since it is a similar form of a protest, neither of which I support, but I fully agree with the rights of the folks to do either
 


You're absolutely right ... its NOT Tea Party folks that are doing that here. I typed in a hurry, and definitely mislabeled the group. Thanks for the correction. :)

As far as flag burning is concerned, there are Americans that burn the American flag out of protest as well. In this case, these were not Americans that were burning the American flag - I think that is why there was even more of an outrage at the act. As far as burning the Quran, the Bible or the Bhagwad Gita are concerned, I don't see the purpose of committing such an act ... it does not achieve anything except spreading more hatred in the world. However, it is fine if people wish to consider this "symbolic speech" and protest by burning religious scriptures. As long as they are not burning my copy, what do I care?

And even more important here is that like the people in Florida who were so keen on burning the Quran, well most of them haven't read the Quran anyway - the book, the words don't mean anything to them. So if those words are just like any other words to them, their act does not mean much to me as a Muslim anyway. However, people must be sane enough to understand that they will be held responsible for the consequences of their action, and therefore they should really consider if their act is really as harmless as they believe it to be.
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