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moral values- irrelavant today? (Page 5)

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 01 December 2010 at 10:16am | IP Logged

If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

If con is the opposite of pro, is congress the opposite of progress?

 

Poor jokes apart. The conflict of interest is a very relevant issue raised up. It is an issue which is of much more relevance today. In the past most people lived in somewhat isolated cultures that shared the same moral values. Today the world is a different place, people are traveling across the world for education, for work of just for a better life. Now we are having various groups, with different histories, with different cultural identities, with different moral sets trying to come together as one cohesive, cooperative society. Even those static in their places are no longer isolated, with media, internet everyone is exposed to a variety of different moral sets and values. Everyone is trying to find balance amidst these different and often times conflicting moral values.

 

For example some of our conservative cultures prescribe a moral code for women based on modesty. It is perceived as immoral for women to reveal themselves, make eye contact etc. More modern perspectives believe that women have the right to express themselves socially and sexually and it is immoral to restrict women. Different does not mean deficient. None of these moral expectations are superior or inferior. They are just that different. What would be the moral thing to do it would be based on what you morally value more.

 

Most times we can reconcile our differences by live and let live, to each their own, one man's ceiling can be another man's floor. The world does not march to the beat of one drummer and to a certain extent we can live with everyone marching to their own drum. We draw the line when living one way does not let the other live, or when ones own denies another their own, when one man tries to deny another a floor, by setting his ceiling too high. Things like that.

 

In the case above on moral perspective of women, both perspectives can live harmoniously. A woman has the choice to be modest or open, and no one has the right to force modesty or openness on her.

 

I also think people misinterpret when someone says we cannot take tradition at face value and we need to think it through. As humans we are gifted not just with moral conscience, but the ability to reason to. Morality and reason cannot always be separate and isolated from another. Reason stems from morality, and morality stems from reason. Its interconnected. We rationalize to do something or not do something based on morals. We will also decide that something is moral or immoral based on reason.  If we choose morality and completely dismiss reason, we are short selling ourselves by rejecting a whole lot of what we can do. Same goes for dismissing morality for only reason. It's a balance between the two and here too, one persons balance of morality and reason is different from another.

 

For example one family might feel that having a single mom, a live-in couple or homosexual couple in their neighborhood threatens traditional perspective and family. Morally they are opposed to it and they reasonably feel that such an environment is detrimental to their family. On the other hand a different family might be fine with it. They maybe morally opposed to it but they reasonably feel that the external environment has no impact on their family. We might have another family who does not care and think everything is fine and moral.

 

There can be so many perspectives on something and societies challenge is to balance these out. Usually it goes by majority consensus but every now and then political and judicial machines will go against majority consensus to do what they feel is morally and reasonably the right thing to do. (Abraham Lincon's stance on abolition, Roe v. Wade, Brown v Board of Education etc)

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Beyond_the_Veil

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Posted: 01 December 2010 at 10:37am | IP Logged
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zorrro

Summer3

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Posted: 01 December 2010 at 8:58pm | IP Logged

Came across this definition . Moral values is basically proper behaviour that forms our character.

Behavior, character and personality are distinct levels in the evolution of the human being. When people display nice behavior, we say they are presentable. At the next level, when they have character, they can accomplish something. At a further level, being endowed with 'personality', they can create something original.

blue-ice

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Posted: 02 December 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Believe

Originally posted by blue-ice

No This is what u are saying...please see my post again...I said morality is something that u decide for urself....the society doesn't decide it for you...the society gives u traditions,cultures and a set of rules....morals are ur own...   u have to decide what u feel is right.............conforming to the society's norms is not morality...some morals do not change with time.....like speaking the truth...will be true in all ages...but the traditions,culture and rules will change with time ...and like I said...u don't have to follow anything ......morality doesn't create hypocrisy....it creates honesty.....
 
We were honest, we were moral, we followed right means, we were truthful, and yet we failed. And the other person was dishonest, cunning, insincere, immoral and yet he succeeded.....Now, the whole moral system teaches that truth is going to win, that morality is going to win, that honesty is going to win. Bt in life we see that all the honest people are losing and immoral people are gaining. The cunning, the clever become powerful..... The simple and the innocent are crushed. Our whole value system is at stake....!!!
 
You come into the world just like an actor, comes onto the stage fully prepared. He/she cannot change anything. Once in a while actors can change things, because a drama is a drama....

No Vinuji....Morals never tell you that you will win...they just tell you what is the right thing to do......many times when we have to make a decision......we know that doing the right thing might hurt us....but some of us will still do it....because we consider it the right thing to do............The only religious book that I have faith in is Geeta......and the biggest teaching of Geeta of all times is that do your duty....do not worry about the outcome.........
It is absolutely disheartening that honest people don't succeed most of the times......but I would rather be a failure than succeed by doing something which I consider wrong....It is true that we cannot change anything.......but atleast we have the satisfaction that we listened to our heart and did the right thing...

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casper2simi_1

Vinzy

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Posted: 03 December 2010 at 1:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by blue-ice

Originally posted by Believe

Originally posted by blue-ice

No This is what u are saying...please see my post again...I said morality is something that u decide for urself....the society doesn't decide it for you...the society gives u traditions,cultures and a set of rules....morals are ur own...   u have to decide what u feel is right.............conforming to the society's norms is not morality...some morals do not change with time.....like speaking the truth...will be true in all ages...but the traditions,culture and rules will change with time ...and like I said...u don't have to follow anything ......morality doesn't create hypocrisy....it creates honesty.....
 
We were honest, we were moral, we followed right means, we were truthful, and yet we failed. And the other person was dishonest, cunning, insincere, immoral and yet he succeeded.....Now, the whole moral system teaches that truth is going to win, that morality is going to win, that honesty is going to win. Bt in life we see that all the honest people are losing and immoral people are gaining. The cunning, the clever become powerful..... The simple and the innocent are crushed. Our whole value system is at stake....!!!
 
You come into the world just like an actor, comes onto the stage fully prepared. He/she cannot change anything. Once in a while actors can change things, because a drama is a drama....

No Vinuji....Morals never tell you that you will win...they just tell you what is the right thing to do......many times when we have to make a decision......we know that doing the right thing might hurt us....but some of us will still do it....because we consider it the right thing to do............The only religious book that I have faith in is Geeta......and the biggest teaching of Geeta of all times is that do your duty....do not worry about the outcome.........
It is absolutely disheartening that honest people don't succeed most of the times......but I would rather be a failure than succeed by doing something which I consider wrong....It is true that we cannot change anything.......but atleast we have the satisfaction that we listened to our heart and did the right thing...
 
Yes, because you have been honest you will have a better fate in your future life.... Becos he has been dishonest, he will have a bitter fate in his future life. So this was a beautiful consolation, and a beautiful defense....rational...for our moral system...Blue ji...I said that comment bcos of in our practical word if you check or think different angle we can understand that 90% of honest people lossing many things in their life,and Becouse of our soceity practice make people dishonest , am not against honesty  and I belive spirituality is not morality,it is a question of vision. Spirituality is not the practicing of virtues ...we can practice nonviolence, bt we will still remain violent, becos ur vision has not changed. A greedy person can practice sharing, bt the greed will remain the same....and going to the church every Sunday  or daily visiting Temple is a social affair...I believe a practiced virtue is a dead thing, a dead weight. Virtue is virtue only when it is spontaneous, virtue is virtue only when it is natural, unpracticed - when it comes out of ur vision, out of your awareness, out of your understanding..
 
 

casper2

Goldie

casper2

Joined: 09 August 2008

Posts: 1720

Posted: 04 December 2010 at 12:35am | IP Logged
values like kindness, compassion ,tolerance  would never be irrelevant. They are all the more important in todays chaotic and changing world.
I think most of us value them, its just that we dont have the patience to indulge in them. Quick  always seems better than slow ,more always seems better than less, now seems better than later....but is it really so ?
 


Edited by crazy_sunny - 04 December 2010 at 2:05am

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Beyond_the_Veil

casper2

Goldie

casper2

Joined: 09 August 2008

Posts: 1720

Posted: 10 December 2010 at 6:12am | IP Logged
Our body in kaliyuga is a field of action:
As a man sows , so is his reward
Nothing by empty talk is determined
Anyone swallowing poison must die
Brother ! behold the Creator's justice :
As are a man's actions,
so is his recompense
 
- Adi Granth,

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Beyond_the_Veil

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