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Analysis of Dashrath's Dilemma (RS Ramayan)

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Posted: 11 November 2010 at 10:20pm | IP Logged
This thread is for the analysis of King Dashrath's dilemma upon Kaikeyi's request for her three boons, and basically everything that was playing in his mind until his death. As suggested by the title, this discussion is mainly in the context of Ramanand Sagar's Ramayan where the issue was covered in great depth and... well, the version I've watched enough to actually talk about LOL By analyzing all of his scenes from when he initially finds out about the boons up until his death, I'd like for us to extract as much as possible in terms of what motivated his reactions, what might've had a causal role in Kaikeyi's behavior, and in general whatever there is to learn from his experience in his most difficult moments.

It is in these links that the scenes occur... but as and when we get to specific ones, you're welcome to post a direct youtube link along with your analysis Wink

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 14

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 15

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 16

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 17

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 18

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 19

Ramanand Sagar Ramayan Episode 20

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Posted: 12 November 2010 at 10:51am | IP Logged
Here I post the dialogwise comments of mine on the scene Lola. Very well initiated topic.

@All members

I have posted here such a hugely lengthy post of mine from former CC just because it was specific assignment from Lola given to me as a part of member of the week questions. Otherwise there is no real benchmark for the length of the inputs of the posts so they can be of any small to big length. Maximum participation will be greatly liked by me and Lola.

- Dashrath and Kaikeyi regarding the 3 boons (not when Ram enters, but before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTD9TWVkrjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGUV4eEHVY

The scene sequence predominantly is about observing the play of destiny and extreme turnaround of human nature or coming out in gross form of some subtle potential natural characteristic of human nature, which was dormant thus far. In this scene, we can mostly be in the shoes of king Dashrath, empathize him, and feel the pain and the shock. The magnitude of the shock is much bigger because of the behaviour of Keikei of such extreme for the first time and unexpected and also the outcome of her behaviour is the killing dilemma created in front of the king ' injustice with innocent righteous son and deserving successor of the kingdom vs spoiling the name of the dynasty by breaching of promise.
 
The best way to watch this scene initially is to try to exercise in the best possible manner to completely lose yourself into the character of Dashrath. Try to feel his pain with complete compassion and exactly the way portrayed on the screen by Bal Dhuri beautifully. And for that, one needs to realize one thing that the reason of that pain was not just the SAANSAARIK MOH or emotional attachment for relations but also the steadfastness and sincerity of the king in his DHARMA and justice.
 
After looking at Keikei (Padma Khanna at her best here) from his view point over here with shocks and changed feeling into hatred and disappointment, it is worth looking the same scene once again with completely spiritual point of view from a mental position above (like Saakshibhaav ' a neutral observation with balance and knowledge ' "Mata Keikei ko bhi wohi murkh dosh denge, jinhe Guru se sachcha gyaan nahi mila" ' I am not too sure whether this previous sentence should be equally applicable to someone like Ravan whose consistent tendency is harassing good people and committing extreme sins ' , "Ye vidhana hai, jo mata Keikei se ye sab karva rahi hai", "Na jane vidhata ne kaun si apni swarth siddhi ke liye Keikei ki buddhi har li, jo bechaari itne bade kalank ka kaaran ban gayee", "Jehi vidhi daarun dukh deni, taaki mati pehele har le".) the human level. Those who know the epic story and have watched the last part of Ayodhya kand; after watching the entire serial and then watching this part again, can do nothing but sympathize Keikei even ideally speaking.
 
As per the instructions of Manthara, Keikei demonstrated the dramatic character by taking out all the ornaments and showing completely unhappy posture. She smartly persuaded first the king to remember his old promise and to secure that promise once again afresh. Here the king shows the weakness of a man's character, which can be easily tempted or driven away by woman tempting attempts and which starts reacting to woman's unhappiness and dissatisfaction by trying to please her at any cost without any thought or vision (This reminds me the oaths of Bhishma ' particularly the second oath of "Har raja me pitaashree ki chhabi" ' out of egoistic excitement of love for the father without any long thought or farsight or vision although the context is slightly different here.) . He has no clue what boons Keikei was intending to ask. He should have thought about it because of such unpleasant behaviour of Keikei at inappropriate time when all other people in the city were joyful. But innocent king is waiting to be relieved from his many years old commitment. Then at the will of Dashrath, Keikei coming in the room properly dressed, asks one by one for both the boons and gives shocks to the king. She is very irritatingly calm throughout the scene, smiling, and completely unconcerned about the pain and feelings of her husband deliberately prepared to give him the deathbed pain and playing with his loving emotions as if subtly the Goddess Sarswati in her arrived for the achievement of Gods' purpose is laughing at his attachment for the wife first and then the son and using Keikei's vice of greed for the kingdom and selfish and discriminating motherhood  as weapon for the purpose.
 
Keikei: Arre meri baat sun kar ye aapko sannipaat sa kya ho gaya? (familiar music which we hear in war episodes) Aisa teer sa kya chubh gaya maharaj? Mere do vardan aapke paas dharohar swaroop the, so maine jo manchaha mang liya. Yadi aap na dena chahen to mat dijiye (knowing fully well that the king was bound to give it but just giving him pain and taunting him continuously taking the advantage of his steadfastness in dharma). Tod dijiye apna vachan. Saare sansaar me aapka hi apyash phailega. Phir dharm aur satya ka naam apni jihva par kabhi mat laaiyega.
 
 
Dashrath (very slowly as he is not able to believe his ears): Keikei. Tum jaanti ho tum kya maang rahi ho? (understandable first reaction and question as it was really unexpected from that person)
 
Keikei (evil smile): Bhali bhaanti jaanti hun maharaj, mai kya mang rahi hun (We know that she is actually not knowing what she is speaking ' she knows the outcome but still the present realization about the outcome is not the same as she would be realizing in future ' greed has overcome her intellect and she is going to realize what she is doing very late after so much lost ' ironically actually her greed & stubbornness are so strong right now that she is even prepared to imagine that extreme cost she is going to pay and is ready to pay that even without realizing its value right now).
 
 
Dashrath: Nahin nahin. Ye kaise sambhav ho sakta hai? Ye var mai kaise de sakta hun (I can't do one adharma for following another dharma ' I am a responsible king and liable to honour and obey public opinion in a democratic manner and also liable to follow my another promise already having been given to Ram, Guru Vashishth and Ayodhya praja about the appointment of the next king)?
 
 
Keikei: Badi udaartaa se, bade satyavaadi ban kar, kya soch kar aapne kaha tha; "Mango kya mangti ho? Jo chahe mango." Kya socha tha aapne? Ye bholi bhali Keikei, thoda sa chana chabena mangegi? Arre!! Mai ek raja ki putri hun. Ek raja ki dharmapatni hun. Ek rajya se bhi bhala kam kya mang sakti hun?! Ye nahi socha tha aapne?!! (Logical question from practical point of view but no place kept in the sentence for the concept of trust ' virtue of believing others' virtue)
 
 
Dashrath: Hmm. Sochna chahiye tha; par socha nahi (similar admission I always wanted to hear from Mukesh Khanna but it is only implied in his conduct, thoughts and indirect dialogs throughout the serial but never explicitly coming by a direct dialog from BRC's Bhishma ' I have never felt his first 'Brahmachaari pratigyaa' to be unreasonable or silly or real trouble as other epic lover people in general give it so much of importance but I have always felt the second one of 'pitashree ki chhabi' completely unthought-of, unneeded, silly, unconvincing, illogical, unreasonable, etc. etc.). Isme tumhara dosh nahi. Kyun ki, maine hi tumhare asli roop ko nahi pehechana. Mai jise ek heere ka haar samajh kar gale se lipataaye phir raha tha, wo ek, naagin nikli.
 
 
Keikei (Laughing): Maharaj. Aap to striyon ki tarah gaali dene lage. Kaise veer purush hain aap (laughing again). Mujhe to aap pe hasi aa rahi hai (Both the different ways of looking at Keikei here are very well possible ' looking at her as an evil woman laughing at a virtuous, helpless & noble man and looking at her as Goddess Sarswati laughing at a sansaari king trapped in worries of the world and feeling the sorrow of the world arising out of own past actions.).
 
 
Dashrath: Tum kya hasogi. Hasega to saaraa sansaar mujh par rani. Jab log kahenge, ki budha stri ke moh me, aisa andha ho gaya ki Ram jaise dharmatma putra ko van me bhej diya; to mai kya uttar dunga (This dialog starts making it very easy for us to get engrossed in Dashrath's thoughts ' exactly clarifying what dimensions of the issue his mind is thinking about)?
 
 
Keikei: Aur jab kahin kisi veer purushon ki sabha me aapse koi puchhega, ki jis stri ne aapke praano ki raksha ki; jiske aap rini the; jise aapne apne dharma ki shapath le kar, vachan diya tha. Jab us BICHAARI ne aapse un vachano ko pura karne ke liye kaha, tab aapne apne vachan se kaayaron ki tarah muh pher liya?!! Aur haare hue juaari ki tarah tilmila uthe??!! Tab aap kya uttar denge maharaj? Swarg me baithe hue aapke poorvaj (laughing) aapki kitni shobha bakhaanenge?
 
 
Dashrath: Keikei. Tune mujhe kahin ka nahi rakha. Kahin ka nahi rakha. Nari to devi ka roop hoti hai. Parantu, tu hamare kul ka nash karne aayee hai. He Bhagwan!!! Maine aisi nari ka vishwas kyun kiya?
 
 
Keikei: Itna santaap kyun kar rahe hain maharaj? Mai koi mol li hui to nahi aayee. Ya Bharat aapka putra nahi (now changing her mood slightly towards anger)? Thik hai. Ab mujhe pura vishwas ho gaya hai ki aapna vachan pura karna nahi chahte (Making her taunts very bitter now from irritating laughs to rude strong threats ' a quick change of tone). Kaan khol kar sun lijiye (clear cut threat or ultimatum). Ram ke abhishek se pehele, aapko meri chita ko agni deni hogi. Aaj Ayodhya ke rajdwar se, Ram ya to van jaayega; ya Keikei ki arthi niklegi (Very very strong statement and declaration of the extreme magnitude of intentions ' this really seems more to be the voice of destiny rather than Keikei because really the second boon asked of exile doesn't seem so much needful from third person's view point in general, going at such an extreme level of sacrifice if the first boon is allowed. From practical point of view, we really need to empathize Keikei to be completely not trusting even Ram in this issue as it was wrongly taught by Manthra to remove all possible obstacles from the way. Not showing any signs of compromise or convincing, which a smart bargainer would be ready of for the win-win situation and fully taking the undue advantage of her officially dominating position even though justified from technical point of view if you are an outsider and not family member. Not showing any signs that she wants to continue loving relations with anyone in the family for the future other than Bharat. Behaving as if totally an outsider stranger enemy not going to live under the same roof ever in future.). Kyun ki, aise adharmi; vachan bhang karnewale kaapurush pati ki patni kehelaane se to achchha hai, ki mai apne praan tyag dun. (Knowing fully well that she has no such intentions to do what she is threatening and also what she is saying is not correct. Just taking too much of risk in relation believing impliedly that everything would be at peace after sometime automatically once her purpose is accomplished)
 
Dashrath: Aise kathor vachan muh se mat nikalo priye (Using very softer tone still with love ' trying in different way and coming at a very low dignity and status). Kisne tumhare mann me aisi durbhavana paida kar di (Coming towards the diagnosis of the problem, tracking of the reason rather than wondering around the symptoms ' and judging or tracking very rightly)? Kisne hamare prem aur vishwas me ye vish ghola hai? Bharat aur Ram to meri do aankhen hain. Tum Bharat ko rajya dena chahti ho, to mujhe swikar hai (Good sense of bargaining even under that emotionally unimaginable shocking situation ' natural step in begging anything). Mere Ram ko rajya ka lobh nahi hai (This is the most lovely sentence in the scene about understanding, pride & trust of a father on the son & confident authority to speak on behalf of the son ' beautiful mark of the relation ' but again in the same line of not thinking but following the faith like he followed while giving his boons to Keikei.). Usne to rajyasabha me bhi inkar kar diya tha. Bharat yadi raja banna chahe (this is also smart sentence because one far possibility is still to be observed and a weapon in hand though Dashrathji might not have intellectually done that.) to mai savere hi Bharat Shatrughn ko bulva lunga. Dusari lagan shodh kar Bharat ko rajya de diya jayega (Clear & assured positive sentence towards the performance of promise); parantu Ram ko vanvas dene ki baat, apne mann se nikaal de. Apna dusara vardan wapas le le rani. Wapas le le.
 
 
Keikei: Nahi maharaj. Aisa kadaapi nahi ho sakta. Yadi aapko dene hain, to dono vachan dene honge (Fixed rigid package strategy without any review of the situation ' strong teaching of Manthra) Mai aaj hi Ram ko van jaataa dekhna chaahti hun (She doesn't want any delay in the implementation as she is afraid of possibility of rebellious praja of Ayodhya. The second boon is more useful for her in that sense leave no doubt in performance of the first one apart from the fact that Ram wouldn't be present to ask for his kingdom from Bharat.).
 
 
Dashrath (Starting to cry slowly with sad background music): Rani. Tu mera mastak mang le. Mai abhi tere charno me daal dunga. Kintu, Ram ke virah me, tu mujhe mat mar (As if knowing and forecasting his future), tu mujhe mat mar rani.
 
 
Keikei: Maharaj, Ram yadi itna hi pyara tha, to uski shapath le kar mujhe vachan dene ki kya aavashyakta thi (second time fresh promise ' reassurance of older one recently given ' taking the help now of Dashrath's love and care for Ram to super ensure the fulfillment of the boon)? Bade udaar ban kar, daani ban kar, kis bal par kaha tha? "Mang, mang Keikei. Jo chahti hai dunga." Maharaj Dashrath!! Raghuvansh shiromani!!! Aapki wo Raghukul riti kahan chali gayee aaj (Becoming the early supposed voice of the society or public)? "PRAAN JAAYE PAR VACHAN NA JAAYE".
 
(Dashrathji can't listen to the above statement and it hurts him the hardest ' "AAAH". We can borrow his heart here and can really feel that pain and shock imagining his pride and sincerity towards the name of the dynasty.)
 
Kya wo jhootha thotha pralaap tha? Anargal baaten thi? Wo sab mithya thi? Jhooth tha? Ya aapka rachaya hua prapanch tha (Pretending to be doubting the fame of Raghuvansh and alleging the assurance of the dynasty's policy to be the false claims)? Uttar dijiye.
 
 
Dashrath: (Speaking gradually out of silence): He Bhagwan!! Tune mujhe kahan kuthaar la kar mara hai. Ab mai Ram ko kya muh dikhaunga? Kis muh se kahunga, ki "Ram!! Tu ab rajya ka adhikaari nahi raha." (Now original shock and feeling coming back when the effort of compromise already failed. He is now even feeling pain again for the first less painful boon and contradicting his own earlier statement showing his great understanding of Ram's simple contented nature.) He Ram!!!! (Crying and sad background music).
 
 
 
Dashrath (Going very below dignity to beg from Keikei the change: Mai tere pair padta hun. Tujhe hath jodta hun. Rani. Rani thoda soch. Thoda vichar kar. Tere mann ki mamta, nari hriday ki komalta kahan gayee? Tune Ram ko sada sagi maa se badh kar pyaar kiya hai. Aur Ram ne bhi tujh me aur apni maa me koi bhi antar nahi rakkha. Dekh. Dekh ant me tu bahut bade kalank ki bhaagi banegi. Mai tere hath jodta hun. Ye kutil kathor vichaar mann se nikaal de. Mai tere paanv padta hun. Mai tere peir padta hun.
 
Keikei: Ab adhik prapanch mat kijiye maharaj. AB CHAHE DHARMA HO YA ADHARMA, YASH MILE YA APYASH, mai mere Bharat ki saugandh kha kar keheti hun, Ram ko van me bhejne ke sivay, mai kisi aur var se santusht nahi ho sakti (Determined strongly by the effect of destiny, knowing fully well that Ram is good and innocent and yet sticking to the demand at any cost).
 
 
Dashrath (Trying differently now with completely plain & honest warning): Phir ye praan nahi rahenge. Are nirdayee, nisthur. Soorya ke bina ye sansaar reh sakta hai. Jal ke bina machhli reh sakti hai. Kintu Ram ke bina Dashrath ke praan nahi reh sakte (Extreme metaphor ' superlative comparison to make realize the magnitude of impact).
 
 
Keikei: To tod dijiye apna vachan (I am not concerned about your life and death). Aap un Raghuvanshion me se nahi hain jinhone apna vachan nibhane ke liye apne praano ki aahooti de daali. Ek panchhi ke praan bachaane ke liye apni boti boti katva di (as if asking for his death and as if herself is very poor & innocent rejected bagger and as if she herself has no duty to think of other than towards her own ambitions and towards Bharat). Aap un Raghuvanshion me se to hain nahi. Aap to Raghuvanshion me kalank hain, kalank (As if she is not part of the family of Raghuvansh and an outsider).
 
 
Dashrath (Now coming to the substantial decided point of their future relation if Keikei sticks to the demand irrespective of what he was going to do with the boons): Keikei. Jeevanbhar ke PREM KA ANT is prakaar karegi? Dekh. Dekh tera ye striya hath tera hi sarvanash kar daalega; tera hi sarvanash kar daalega (Forecasting almost the correct future ' at least applicable until Ram's coming back to Ayodhya after 14 years and afterwards only partially due to the irreparable damage of Dashrathji's death ).
 
 
Keikei: Ho jaay sarvanash. Aa jaay mahapralay. Kintu Ram avashya van jaayega (Saraswati is telling the kind not to interfere in destiny's noble plan subtly and using Keikei's own dormant potential seeds of rajas & tamas nature so Keikei herself would have to bear it in future and also in the process, her mind was to be purified with virtues being the mother of Ramji.).
 
 
Dashrath (Now coming to extreme words): Are hatyari. Kulghatani. Ye tu nahi bol rahi hai. YE DASHRATH KA KAAL BOL RAHA HAI. DASHRATH KA KAAL BOL RAHA HAI (Yet another spiritual interpretation other than that of Sarswati ma ' destiny's plan of Ravan's death ' impact of Shravankumar's father's curse taking shape and Keikei is becoming the vehicle for the God of death).
 
(Repeated the last lines a few times crying and fainted ' sad touchy background music and Keikei's careless reaction of monotony follows.
 
 
The entire night passes by when other two queens were also awake in excitement till very late in between these conversations between Dashrath & Keikei. Morning song (Prabhaat geet) to wake up the city is being sung by the servant singers which is piercing the heart of the king. The music and the song directly carry us actually to the environment of very early morning but they also keep us associated with the feeling of the serious situation.
 
Navprabhaat aayo, jago he, jago he, jago he..........maharaj.....jago he...Navprabhaat aayo.
Aaj Avadh me utsav bhaari, harashit pulkit sab nar naari; Ati aanand chhayo....jago he.........
 
(The king orders to stop the music painfully and keeps on chanting the name of Ram lying on the floor. Keikei with irritating calmness and smile of victory asks him to get up and publicly declare his changed decision about the successor king with the rise of the Sunrays of the new day.)
 
 
It can be seen in the entire scene that throughout the conversation, Dashrath is talking with Keikei not as a donor or giver but as husband only. He is not able to think in isolation neutrally as if he had to fulfill the wishes of any third person. Ideally, a donor wouldn't try to discourage the person demanding. A true donor wouldn't try to convince the other person to change the demand. Otherwise it wouldn't be completely true fulfillment of promise because you are not fully satisfying the person unconditionally as it is irrespective of the justification of demand.
 
Now if the demand is not justified; the issue is whether from the point of view of sanaatan dharma, you should be ready to breach the promise or not (Same debate of Mahabharat - Bhishma vs Krishna). Here, the king tried to find out therefore the middle solution of not breaching the promise also by convincing (Bhishma found the middle solution by giving his own life and not killing Pandavas) and also trying to correct the spoiled mind & intellect of the other person being the husband himself and having the right over Keikei and concern about his relation with her and her fall of character. And as against Bhishma's case, here the issue is not just the protection of own dharma but also KULDHARMA of promise keeping. In Bhishma's case, oath keeping was his own personal image. Here, it is not just about spoiling own good name by not fulfilling the promise given in an unthoughtful moment of excitement or attachment or ego; but was also about spoiling the name of all forefathers.
 

Edited by ShivangBuch - 12 November 2010 at 11:25am

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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
Well said, bhaiya!! I really like the Saraswati interpretation of Kaikeyi's behavior a lot... something hatke, and very positive take on the situation  because it get's rid of the whole blame game/antagonistic tone that usually brings her down to very worldly level even though we know these characters ALL have to be beyond that to have been chosen for the special roles they got in the leela. And specifically the point you made about how she doesn't even seem to be hearing his attempt at negotiation of "take one promise, let one go out the window" - olden days credit card debt consolidation LOL - makes it seem even more plausible that she was acting as an instrument of divine will, not her own - her behavior was very precise and robotic, if you think about it, because she really didn't seem to be hearing him at all. Whatever lines were fed to her, she just repeated.

And it is in perfect harmony with so many other instances in the our mythos - the vidhna comments by Shri Ram and praja, Kumbhkarn asking for Nidraasan, even by extension Naarad Muni's concern in SK when Kans spares Keertiman - his implied intervention is perfectly correlated with this Saraswati-controlling-Kaikeyi interpretation in that they both (mother and son, even though Naarad is Brahmaji's manas putra... it works Tongue) intervene in ways that seem harmful at the immediate present moment and at human level but are ultimately for the welfare for the universe. Then the vinaashkaari/mangalkaari discussion we're having in the Garg thread also comes into play. Ram Vanvaas just like Kans Vivaah was short-term vinaashkaari, long-term mangalkaari as both would be necessary for the dharmsansthaapan goal of the incarnation.

Coming to Dashrath, obviously agree that he was tormented by guilt rather than attachment - he didn't want to have to commit such a grave injustice on an innocent person was the problem, not so much that the person was his beloved son. It makes the stress on his mind all the more palpable. Only the part that you pointed out about "Ram ko kis muh se kahunga ki tu raja banne ka adhikaari ab nahin raha..." and how it contradicts his earlier statement that showed confidence in Shri Ram's detachment from these luxuries - just imagining a little different scenario here, what if Dashrath kept that former strategy up throughout the duration of these proceedings? What if instead of showing vulnerability as he did, he would just continue with that "go ahead, do what you want - I know my Ram, usse koi fark nahin padnewaala - you just try him out and see who you think yo're messing with." The meant-to-be and not-meant-to-be aside, do you think just in terms of facing this kind of dilemma/argument on a worldly level, that approach would make any difference in the outcome? Would the other person be so flustered and confused by the fact that they're not having an effect on you that they only would bow and give up? The inspiration behind this thought is coming from the story of Sant Eknath, when that rowdy guy gets told that if you make Swamiji lose his temper we'll pay you... remember that story?

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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 7:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lola610


Coming to Dashrath, obviously agree that he was tormented by guilt rather than attachment - he didn't want to have to commit such a grave injustice on an innocent person was the problem, not so much that the person was his beloved son. It makes the stress on his mind all the more palpable. Only the part that you pointed out about "Ram ko kis muh se kahunga ki tu raja banne ka adhikaari ab nahin raha..." and how it contradicts his earlier statement that showed confidence in Shri Ram's detachment from these luxuries - just imagining a little different scenario here, what if Dashrath kept that former strategy up throughout the duration of these proceedings? What if instead of showing vulnerability as he did, he would just continue with that "go ahead, do what you want - I know my Ram, usse koi fark nahin padnewaala - you just try him out and see who you think yo're messing with." The meant-to-be and not-meant-to-be aside, do you think just in terms of facing this kind of dilemma/argument on a worldly level, that approach would make any difference in the outcome? Would the other person be so flustered and confused by the fact that they're not having an effect on you that they only would bow and give up? The inspiration behind this thought is coming from the story of Sant Eknath, when that rowdy guy gets told that if you make Swamiji lose his temper we'll pay you... remember that story?

Are you asking or telling something about like REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY as a tool available with Dashrathji possibly if he was conscious enough to think about it to use it? What is the story of Sant Eknath? Please share it in detail.

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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 7:32pm | IP Logged
Yes, that's basically what I was asking Big smile Not reverse psychology of the facts he was presenting, but of his presentation style versus his true feelings. Would it have had any impact on the story, and if so, how? He gave us a glimpse of it, as you mentioned, when he confidently says Shri Ram would happily hand over the throne to Bharat. If he would've kept up that attitude throughout, would things have been different?? This leads into a somewhat broader observation I've made through our mythos, the efficacy of using your own emotional response as a tool to guide someone else's... for another example, remember Bharat when he finishes finding out about the whole mess from Kaikeyi and visits Kaushalya? The way I see it, he finds her looking lost and devastated and wants to bring her out of it, and that's why he proceeds with the conversation the way he does - demonstrating guilt and neediness and so much pain that she's kind of forced into consoling him instead of grieving any further herself. He in his heart may have wanted to be the one consoling her, but by not showing that strength of his own he elicited that strength from her. By playing the part of the victim, he forced her to switch over and become the hero(ine). So if Dashrath had been reacting differently than his heart suggested - by showing confidence and indifference instead of vulnerability and shock and pain, going from victim to smug hero - would Kaikeyi also have been forced out of the villain position? Kind of a psychological matter more than a mytho one, we could skip it I guess.

As for Eknath story - he was already known and revered as a saint for his great patience, when one day a group of vagabonds in the town decided to pose each other a challenge - whoever would be first to make him lose his temper would get a reward. One determined guy from the group found out that at the time he was taking a dip in the Godavari, so he went to its banks. As soon as Sant Eknath emerged, he spat on him. Sant Eknath smiled at him, and proceeded to take another dip. This happened a countless number of times until the offender only was fed up with himself. He ran to Eknathji, fell at his feet, and apologized. He said "I must've spat on you hundreds of times, showed you such disrespect, and still you're not angry with me?" Sant Eknathji laughed and said "brother, why would I be mad? Thanks to you I got to take sooooooo many dips in the holy Godavari today, instead I should thank you for giving me that opportunity!" The vagabond of course became a changed man and devoted himself to Eknathji from then on.

Kind of reminds me of Shri Ram's "mera to chaaron or se kalyan ho gaya" line... but he actually meant it, because he knew that all he had planned was nothing but good. But the concept of giving an unexpected reaction and stunning the other person silent is still there.

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ShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch
ShivangBuch

Joined: 31 August 2009
Posts: 1045

Posted: 15 November 2010 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
The Eknath story also reminded me about Gandhigiri.Big smile Yes you are right. If we keep the spiritual or destiny element (Jo hona hota hai wo to ho kar hi reheta hai) aside for the time being and just talk in terms of practical and psychological aspects of actions (we can say routine random events rather than larger scale destined events), then I also have a question like you and probably also the answer of that question in YES also. Dashrathji's indifferent & cool-calm behaviour or such pretending would have had surprising or flexible impact on Keikei I think (but that just naturally didn't happen and because had that happened, that would also have changed or affected the events on a larger scale which are all common in all Ramayans unlike the petty random differences of different Kalp Ramayans like how the ocean was crossed, who killed Kumbhkarna, who made Lakshman unconscious, who suggested Dronagiri mountain, etc which wouldn't have affected main destiny's plans and aim.). Keikei wouldn't have gone on defensive, stubborn or counter attacking straightaway. She would have become thinking because of her unplanned reaction because of the unimagined reaction of the opposite party. Who knows then she might have felt mercy or love at that time for the king and would have come back to the original Keikei over the years thinking that whatever Manthara was telling her was wrong. Jab usne kaha tha tab wo sahi laga tha. Abhi jab aap keh rahe ho to wo sahi lag raha hai. She might even have come to compromises who knows. That reverse psychology kind of effects I always observe around in my life in smaller & bigger issues of  all smaller & bigger relationships of my life.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 15 November 2010 at 7:12pm

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