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Bhakti Lessons from MaharishiGarg (RS ShriKrishna) (Page 2)

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lola610

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lola610

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Posted: 10 January 2011 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
next scene!

Here goes Gargji's next scene, in which he tells Shandilya Muni the secret of Balram's transfer and describes the mysterious but delightful nature of the lord's upcoming leela. In an awesome line that is one of my fav one liners from the show, he says "Ab jo honewala hai, woh to unki ichha par nirdharit hai jo vidhaata ke bhi vidhaata hai!" Please share your thoughts!

Starts 8 minutes into the first, continues in the next:



random sidenotes: the above posted scenes was one of my absolute favorites when I was little, because of how the whole room turns yellow before Gargji appears. I always wondered how he's floating in the air, secretly wishing I could also sit like that LOL j/k...

the metaphors in this scene are sooo rich and beautiful, esp the koti koti suryon ka prakaash one... wowww what a vision Day Dreaming

And... fact of the day: the dubbing voice used for Dara Singh in Ramayan was the same as we heard from Gargacharya, Shursen, Bhishma, and Brahma in SK.



Edited by lola610 - 10 January 2011 at 10:24pm

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DebipriyaShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch

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Posted: 10 January 2011 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
LOLI enjoyed to read about your child age curiosity. Any child would first think of those amusing powers of Hanumanji first naturally. Flying, disappearing, changing form. But now we can logically understand them to be the control over PANCHATATVA. Now we can very much understand that it was not the gross body (Sthool sharir) of Garg which traveled to Shandilya's aashram but it must be subtle body (Sookshma sharir). 

You are right. I also have felt that Hanumanji's dubbing voice is same as Garg's dubbing voice. The dubbing artist has cleverly used different tones, styles & voice modulations for different actors you mentioned. But mostly Garg's expressions are similar all the time - slow, mild & emotional (even his strong powerful voice in dialog with Kans is relatively mild compared to Hanumanji) but in all Hanumanji scenes, Dara Singh had wide range of emotions & expressions and hence at times the voice of Hanumanji for some specific types of emotions is not found for Garg.


This scene achieves extreme spiritual and mythological heights in terms of devotees beliefs about HUMAN KRISHNA.

The line you mentioned is really one of the greatest line in the entire serial. Something was going to happen which even Brahma's son didn't know. Kans was going to die - that was destined. The purpose for which Krishna incarnated was destined. The future of all the creatures of Brahma's creations was supposed to be known to Garg (including Kans, Ugrasen, Vasudev, Devaki, Nand, Yashoda). But how those things were going to materialize and through whom - that couldn't be seen by even Brahma's son - trikaalgyaani. He could see in front of him events of all the three tenses in the lives of creatures of Brahmalok and all lokas below it. As Krishna-Balram-Yogmaya trinity's births were divine and so as their future leelas (and they were greatest souls above Brahmalok), they were beyond comprehension of astronomy area of lord Brahma and they were beyond control of NAVGRAH and GRAHDASHA. The manner in which future course of events was going to happen was purely as per the wish of Krishna (independent of karma theory & destiny) and even the exact purpose of Balram's birth & life was not clear to Garg. God wanted even him to enjoy his leelas as and when they were going to come (This is not found similar strangely in Valmiki's ability to see Ram's future and Ramji saying Lakshman & Nishadraj - vidhi ke vidhan ko koi badal nahi sakta mitra, karm ke siddhant se to bhagwan bhi bandhe hue hain - so slight complexity of harmonizing the two incarnations). This power of Krishna's incarnation to change the destiny and completely change the destined course of events for devotees at will relates our mind directly to the incidents of Punardatt & Parikshit given back the life after death (Punardatt new body also of the same form).




Edited by ShivangBuch - 11 January 2011 at 2:11am

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ShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch

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Posted: 10 January 2011 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
However, it is greatly puzzling what was the practical purpose of Balram's birth for the sake of people of the world and for DHARMSANSTHAPAN other than being in the company of Krishna in the childhood (unlike Lakshman taking part in the battle and helping hand throughout the life of Ramji). The way Balram is characterized in BRC's MB; he, on the contrary, always created problems & obstacles on the path of human Krishna for Dharmsansthaapan (Subhadra-haran, Post Bhim-Duryodhan dual) rather than helping him (Krishna) or smoothening his efforts.

Possible aims/positive reasons (not negative contributions in God's overall incarnation leela or drama or plot set) of Balram's incarnation (some devotion point of view and some practical point of view for the good of immediate relatives and some from the point of view of good of the society):

# Just for the sake of fulfilling his desire to accompany lord again and this time becoming elder brother (as shown in the serial) and to show the world that always the person having greater authority (elder brother) should be more knowledgeable (like Ram) to justify the objective rules set by shaastras for dharma's ruling. If the younger brother is more knowledgeable & wise (like Krishna) but not having the formal authority; many twisted ways have to adopted to achieve dharma's victory.

# Giving motherhood pleasure to Rohini (motherhood for some divine being)

# Protecting a few times father & mother in the prison from Kans (the way shown in the serial - but the way it was executed through traveling by subtle body and taking snake's form, that could have been done by coming from Vaikunth also without being incarnated)

# Killing (uddhar) of Chanur & some of the devils like Pralambaasur

# Breaking of ego of Jarasandh - Krishna's order/suggestion to do so possibly to make him somewhat reflective and soul searching before death by giving him years to think for his spiritual welfare (But that Krishna also could have done alone - but then having said that, Ram also could have killed Indrajeet alone)


Edited by ShivangBuch - 11 January 2011 at 2:13am

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lola610

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Posted: 11 January 2011 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
Great additions bhaiya, really very thought provoking Clap lolz glad to see our childhood curiosities also matched LOL

Regarding the comparison of predictability of Ram and Shyam's futures, I think that the disparity in Valmiki and Garg's jyotish skills is not because of their being different avatars, but the different types of events that can be forecast. Some leelas had to do with praarabdh and shraap-fulfillment and karm phal, like Shabri/Kubja uddhaar and SiyaRam-RadheShyam virah. Because they were tied to destiny, they could be foretold by Valmiki and Garg. Same with the dharmsansthaapan-related necessities like Shri Ram's vanvaas and the Mahabharat War.

But others, like the events that surrounded Shri Krishna Janmashtami and Shri Ram's Setu Bandhan, for example, were not directly related to any individual's fate... they were extraneous miracles enacted just to please devotees and strengthen their faith - not meant to be predicted, just about giving us pleasant surprises. Hence I think they were excluded from the premonitions of Garg and Valmiki and other such sages, so that even they could be pleasantly surprised and ecstatic when they occurred.


As for the purpose of Baldaau's incarnation, all the theories you presented are plausible - in light of the character as shown in SK, I'd def buy the first one. Here's my take on an alternative, especially given the fact that both Ram and Shyam could've vanquished the evildoers their brothers defeated without their assistance: both Lakhanji and Baldaau were needed as character foils for both the pramukh avtaars. To learn the virtues of patience and tolerance from Shri Ram, we needed impatient and impulsive albeit well-intentioned Lakshman as a point of comparison (especially just before Bharat Milaap and Setu Bandhan). To learn to be creative and flexible in capturing the spirit of the law as per the needs of the hour like Shri Krishna, we needed to know how being rigidly bound to the letter of the law like Balram could pose dilemmas (especially in the case of Duryodhan's death).

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ShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch

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Posted: 11 January 2011 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
Well said. Perfect convincing interpretation on Lakshman-Balram incarnations. Nothing to add or to ask or to counter.Clap

And I can also understand your take on the surprise leelas of God - broad events of the story were destined but the sub events leading through the main events were random and surprises and they also therefore do differ in different sources of Krishna and Ram as supposed to have occurred all of them in their incarnations in different Kalpas - a theory in which we have achieved consensus. However, whether these actions had anything to do with the karmphal or boons or curses or  not is still a question mark. Despite their randomness in different incarnations, they still were to affect the lives of people of Brahma's sristhi. For example, Janmashtami miracles of hypnotism changed the life of Braj people and Nand-Yashoda-Rohini. Setu bandhan taking place through Nal-Nil instead of through Ram's arrows had effect on their lives - their birth becoming fertile - janm saarthak hona - and by getting the opportunity of serving lord thus, they also must have been destined to get that fruit of devotion. Same can be applied to Sushain vis a vis Jambuvan/Vibhishan directing for Dronagiri.

I mean even if Krishna's and Ram's certain actions were beyond foretelling through their Kundalis because they were beyond the effects of planets (at least Krishna not supposed to behave as Maryada Purushottam) and couldn't be foreseen; still the kundalis of people to be affected by those effects also had no such hints!!!Shocked


Edited by ShivangBuch - 11 January 2011 at 9:48pm

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lola610

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Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ShivangBuch

However, whether these actions had anything to do with the karmphal or boons or curses or  not is still a question mark. Despite their randomness in different incarnations, they still were to affect the lives of people of Brahma's sristhi. For example, Janmashtami miracles of hypnotism changed the life of Braj people and Nand-Yashoda-Rohini. Setu bandhan taking place through Nal-Nil instead of through Ram's arrows had effect on their lives - their birth becoming fertile - janm saarthak hona - and by getting the opportunity of serving lord thus, they also must have been destined to get that fruit of devotion. Same can be applied to Sushain vis a vis Jambuvan/Vibhishan directing for Dronagiri.

I mean even if Krishna's and Ram's certain actions were beyond foretelling through their Kundalis because they were beyond the effects of planets (at least Krishna not supposed to behave as Maryada Purushottam) and couldn't be foreseen; still the kundalis of people to be affected by those effects also had no such hints!!!Shocked


Lolz good call LOL I should've been more specific in my post, I meant that the miraculous elements of these events - making rocks with His name float on water, breaking handcuffs and subduing a river to reach Gokul - the "how" part of the events, not the "where" or the "through whom?" which involved the good fortune of specific people and places - it was these miracle that I think were outside of the sages' forecasting realm, I think that's what Garg was referring to. As you yourself mentioned in the previous post,

Originally posted by ShivangBuch

But how those things were going to materialize and through whom - that couldn't be seen by even Brahma's son


And the how is simply these miracles which in themselves were not tied to any individual's destiny and in isolation, had no unique purpose other than the manoranjan of us devotees. As far as the portions you referred to - i.e. Nal-Neel, Nand-Yashoda - I would assume that the sages could foretell those for the same reason you mentioned. But no reason they should be deprived of the joyous jhatka of seeing "jinpar kirpa Ram karein" and the whole Yamuna bit in live action instead of prerecorded WinkLOL



Edited by lola610 - 11 January 2011 at 10:13pm

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ShivangBuch

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ShivangBuch

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Posted: 12 January 2011 at 5:34am | IP Logged
Yes. Now perfect harmony of thoughts if we restrict that HOW to only miracles rather than human way of occurrence of events in alternative ways in different kalpas involving other helping devotees graced by Lord.

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lola610

Debipriya

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Posted: 31 March 2011 at 10:15pm | IP Logged
@Shivang,

 Star   Star  Star   for the explanation of 'Krishna-incarnation's  power to change the destined course of events completely' and the 'Independent Karma Theory'.
 
 
We find the words- "…Karm likhe ko par kaat nahi paati hai" in ref to Sita Mata in 'Hum katha sunaate', what is the meaning of this line in ref to 'Independent Karma theory'?  Is it at all Big smile relevant here?
 
 
 
@Lola,
 
LOL!! Hanumaanji's dubbing voice same as Garg??? I couldn't identify that!! Garg is always sooo Peaceful!!!
 
 
Loved the way you categorized the' two group of actions' Star- the 'Destined actions/ Praarabdh/ Shraap Fulfilment' and 'Miracles' …  Really Enjoyed the discussion about Miracles!! Star Star

 
And yes, about the point of 'Lakshman- Balram as foils to the main character'!!  Clap   Clap Very nicely written Dear!
 

I think, nothing more remains to be added regarding this scene. But still my respect for Maharishi Garg made me post here Smile. The way he tells Shandilya Muni that- '… the LORD/ Truth is beyond Mind, Eyes and Knowledge' and he could only see the 'Radiance of Myriads of Suns' in future – make this scene so Pious! "Ab jo honewala hai, woh to unki ichha par nirdharit hai jo vidhaata ke bhi vidhaata hai!"-  All these sentences quoted by Lola is truly the Essence of this scene!!  Star  Star  Star 

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