Debate Mansion

   

Debate Contest: What Would You Do? (DM-REMIX) (Page 8)

Post Reply New Post

Page 8 of 9

Page 1 Page 7
Page   of 9
Page 9 Page 9

*Woh Ajnabee*

IF-Sizzlerz

*Woh Ajnabee*

Joined: 15 September 2007

Posts: 22667

Posted: 07 June 2010 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
Karan, nobody is even bothering to read our debate. Disapprove Sarina, the contest is still running, correct? We are not wasting our time here, I hope? Also, I realize we've passed the deadline, are you planning on setting up a new and final one?

Dear Guest, Being an unregistered member you are missing out on participating in the lively discussions happening on the topic "Debate Contest: What Would You Do? (DM-REMIX) (Page 8)" in Debate Mansion forum. In addition you lose out on the fun interactions with fellow members and other member exclusive features that India-Forums has to offer. Join India's most popular discussion portal on Indian Entertainment. It's FREE and registration is effortless so JOIN NOW!

*Woh Ajnabee*

IF-Sizzlerz

*Woh Ajnabee*

Joined: 15 September 2007

Posts: 22667

Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by karandel_2008

Some people have already said that its possible that parents will join the unwed-mom. Talking about cases: what makes you think that the kid wasn't abandoned as soon as he/she was born? Its only mentioned in the topic that the kid is alive, but nothing is said whether he is still with his unwed mom or not.

Assumption.

If we go by Indian society where girls are forced to marry against their wishes, it is very likely that the unwed mom will be forced to abondon the kid by her parents, in the clinic itself, for family's "honor" and to escape the taboo. Parents, especially the father, rule their daughters with iron hands. They can do anything just in the name of honor - see recent news regarding honor killings in India.

Assumption.

In addition, even if parents don't force her, unwed mother herself may decide to abandon the kid or ask someone else to adopt him/her. She has a strong motivation to do that in order to escape strong taboo.

Assumption.

What makes you think that the kid wont be abandoned someone like "Raam Jaane"(SRK movie) or found in a care house for abandoned kids?

Assumption.

 


If Sarina is able to clarify if any of these things is true, I will consider them. If not, I think they are irrelevant to the discussion. A lot of "what-ifs" can be brought into either of these scenarios otherwise.

For example ...

Why should be assumed that one of the mothers from the lesbian couple is the biological mother? If the situation becomes that the child is adopted, it will make the mental stress on the child much, much greater.

Or perhaps the couple lives in a state where same sex marriages are still illegal? How will they be able to raise the kid then?

Or maybe they live in a conservative neighborhood where neighbors look down upon them? How will the child cope with that hatred then?

You see where I'm going with this? We can pose so many more questions and bring so many more tangents into play here. I wish that more detail was given to make this debate easier and more specific, but we were just given the basics. If we start assuming so many things, the debate will never end.

karandel_2008

IF-Rockerz

karandel_2008

Joined: 09 December 2008

Posts: 5756

Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:28pm | IP Logged
Ajnu, about the assumptions, most of the things we are discussing are assumptions. For example the point you elaborated was that parents will join the unwed mother is also an assumption.

Does that make it irrelevant?

-- I think it is fair to bring forward some assumptions that have high chances of taking place in this scenario. Unwed moms abandoning kid in India has a high chance as I explained before.

-- Moreover, it is fair that I take one assumption if you choose to take one assumption yourself (possibility of parents joining the unwed mom)

Adoption in my case is not a valid assumption because it is mentioned that the "kid was born to lesbian couples". I dont see how one can read "born" as adoption.

cuckoocutter

Senior Member

Joined: 08 December 2009

Posts: 835

Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:55am | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

karandel_2008

IF-Rockerz

karandel_2008

Joined: 09 December 2008

Posts: 5756

Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by cuckoocutter



i feel it can never be easy growing up without a father. but while it might just be possible to explain and accept the ABSENCE of a father in one's life, it's very hard to explain and accept the PRESENCE of someone else in a mother's life. that's real, that's deep-rooted in human nature, that's our view of mom. it might be unfair to place mom on such a pedestal that she might not be able to lead life on her terms, but it is what it is. the kid in the lesbian family is faced with exactly this situation.



I will post my other points in detail later, but are you sure you dont want to swap PRESENCE and ABSENCE in your argument above?

Its actually opposite and its the ABSENCE that not only bothers us, but it creates a craving, a void in our mind. Ever heard about "grass is greener on the other side", "Jo use mil nahin sakta dil ko uski chahat hai" ?

One can explain the PRESENCE because one can always confront the person who is actually present and ask for explanations. Its easier to explain things in front of your eyes. But whom do you go to for asking explanation about the ABSENCE?

In the case of lesbian mothers, one person can fill that void, or ABSENCE, and role play as a father. I agree that she can never completely replace a father, but something is better than nothing. She will not only emotionally support the kid, but also emotionally support the biological mother(her emotional well being directly affects the kids upbringing). Moreover, when someone is born, that person is like a blank page and accepts everyone around that is present. Why will he have a problem in accepting his other mother who in turn is ready to fill the void?

If the amount of explanations is bothering people then here is one more --  in the Indian context, what will be the caste of that kid? Will it be that of his/her father or mother? How will he explain that to others?



Edited by karandel_2008 - 11 June 2010 at 9:08pm

karandel_2008

IF-Rockerz

karandel_2008

Joined: 09 December 2008

Posts: 5756

Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*

Also, I would like to add that hate crimes have been quite prevalent throughout American history. I am sure that being a lesbian couple will incite a lot of problems for this family. Indian society may make the unwed mother an outcast and banish her, but I think the American family will be facing many more struggles.

With so much opposition found in society, the lesbian couple will either have to hide their sexual orientation and pretend to be something they are not, or they will have to come out of closet and then face the challenges that stand in front of them.

The 90s were a time where gay couples were fighting for civil rights - and that included protests, marches, and lots and lots of opposition. Do you think that the lesbian couple will be able to provide their child with physical and emotional comfort during this time?

The number of hate crimes against homosexuals were at their peak in the 90s. Homosexuals were brutally murdered for their sexual orientation in the US during this decade - from being beaten to death, raped, shot at gay bars among other awful crimes - do you think this is a safe environment to raise a child? If society does not accept a same-sex couple, what makes you think they will accept a same-sex family? Will the young child be able to cope with this much mental stress to the point where it is fear for one's life?


First of all, isn't it good that at least the protests are there? This shows a sense of oneness and a sense of fighting for their rights among gays/lesbians (LGBTs).  LGBTs usually stay together and support each other. Moreover, their protests are producing fruits now. That kid will be involved in a meaningful fight that in turn would bear fruits later . He/she will fight for her mother's rights and will start winning in the years to come. Nothing like this when it comes to the sense of achievement.

On the other hand, where is this sense of community in unwed mothers in India? Where are the protests for the rights of unwed mothers in India?

About Hate crimes -- You have to consider the statistics as well. It is reported in [1] (I will look for 90s stats as well, but 2004 is also 6 years ago from now) that "Of the 9,528 victims of hate crimes in 2004, ... 15.6 percent were attacked because of a sexual-orientation bias. The majority of those victims, 60.9 percent, were the objects of anti-male homosexual attitudes on the part of the offenders."

Majority were against Anti-male homosexuals (902) victims as compared to Anti-Female homosexual victims that were 212. People attack women less.

Given the low number of lesbian victims (212), given very good law and order implementation in  USA and strong sense of community among LGBTs, one wouldn't loose sleep over this.

However, is the law and order situation good in small towns of India? Who will protect the unwed mother from criminals, sexual harassers, religious extremists, stone pelting? In fact, who will protect her from the corrupt police officers who rape women (see ACP Rathore case - cases like that dont come out in open everyday. They dont get justice everyday, but who will file FIR against police in India?)? Some of these perverts will assume that  the lonely unwed mother is immoral because she is unwed mother.


[1] http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html



Edited by karandel_2008 - 11 June 2010 at 10:16pm

karandel_2008

IF-Rockerz

karandel_2008

Joined: 09 December 2008

Posts: 5756

Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
Reserved for writing all the points (will do that after 15th deadline)

qwertyesque

IF-Rockerz

qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006

Posts: 5953

Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:01pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by karandel_2008

Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*



At the bolded part -that is treading too much on a debate on homosexuality vs. heterosexuality. And I think that becomes out of scope for this particular debate. If you had something else in mind with that question, feel free to clarify.



My question was not addressed to you. It was addressed to people who despise "sexual freedom" in USA. In particular, in this thread, I have seen people calling lesbianism as an illness, and so on.

I take it that you don't despise "sexual freedom" in general. Isnt it?

Rest, my question is still open for them who despise it.
 
man... lesbianism is an illness what makes you think its not.. there is a fine line between freedom and responsibility..  as soon as you jump to call lesbianism normal.. you might be outraged by pedophilia... or do you think thats normal too....?
 
@Ajnu the debate topic rests on lesbains adopting kids.. its almost like talking about kids brought up by wolves or something... you have to decide about the demerits of such upbringing .....
 
Bur karan whats the question.. i am sorry I dont know....

Post Reply New Post

Go to top

Related Topics

  Topics Topic Starter Replies Views Last Post
^DEBATE MANSION SLAM BOOK^

2 3 4 5 6

BilliCat. 46 6886 23 December 2011 at 7:23am
By .DontKnow.
Debate Contest (COMPLETED)

2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 32 33

return_to_hades 256 12626 28 June 2010 at 8:13am
By return_to_hades
Mahabharat Analysis and Debate

2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 67 68

..RamKiJanaki.. 538 44221 22 June 2010 at 1:45pm
By Aanandaa
WHY debate?

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

--ania-- 72 3405 21 May 2010 at 12:12pm
By _Angie_

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category

Active Forums

Debate Mansion Topic Index

Limit search to this Forum only.

 

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.