Debate Contest: What Would You Do? (DM-REMIX) (Page 8)

Karan, nobody is even bothering to read our debate. Sarina, the contest is still running, correct? We are not wasting our time here, I hope? Also, I realize we've passed the deadline, are you planning on setting up a new and final one?

If Sarina is able to clarify if any of these things is true, I will consider them. If not, I think they are irrelevant to the discussion. A lot of "what-ifs" can be brought into either of these scenarios otherwise.

For example ...

Why should be assumed that one of the mothers from the lesbian couple is the biological mother? If the situation becomes that the child is adopted, it will make the mental stress on the child much, much greater.

Or perhaps the couple lives in a state where same sex marriages are still illegal? How will they be able to raise the kid then?

Or maybe they live in a conservative neighborhood where neighbors look down upon them? How will the child cope with that hatred then?

You see where I'm going with this? We can pose so many more questions and bring so many more tangents into play here. I wish that more detail was given to make this debate easier and more specific, but we were just given the basics. If we start assuming so many things, the debate will never end.

Ajnu, about the assumptions, most of the things we are discussing are assumptions. For example the point you elaborated was that parents will join the unwed mother is also an assumption.

Does that make it irrelevant?

-- I think it is fair to bring forward some assumptions that have high chances of taking place in this scenario. Unwed moms abandoning kid in India has a high chance as I explained before.

-- Moreover, it is fair that I take one assumption if you choose to take one assumption yourself (possibility of parents joining the unwed mom)

Adoption in my case is not a valid assumption because it is mentioned that the "kid was born to lesbian couples". I dont see how one can read "born" as adoption.

THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

I will post my other points in detail later, but are you sure you dont want to swap PRESENCE and ABSENCE in your argument above?

Its actually opposite and its the ABSENCE that not only bothers us, but it creates a craving, a void in our mind. Ever heard about "grass is greener on the other side", "Jo use mil nahin sakta dil ko uski chahat hai" ?

One can explain the PRESENCE because one can always confront the person who is actually present and ask for explanations. Its easier to explain things in front of your eyes. But whom do you go to for asking explanation about the ABSENCE?

In the case of lesbian mothers, one person can fill that void, or ABSENCE, and role play as a father. I agree that she can never completely replace a father, but something is better than nothing. She will not only emotionally support the kid, but also emotionally support the biological mother(her emotional well being directly affects the kids upbringing). Moreover, when someone is born, that person is like a blank page and accepts everyone around that is present. Why will he have a problem in accepting his other mother who in turn is ready to fill the void?

If the amount of explanations is bothering people then here is one more --  in the Indian context, what will be the caste of that kid? Will it be that of his/her father or mother? How will he explain that to others?



Edited by karandel_2008 - 11 June 2010 at 9:08pm

First of all, isn't it good that at least the protests are there? This shows a sense of oneness and a sense of fighting for their rights among gays/lesbians (LGBTs).  LGBTs usually stay together and support each other. Moreover, their protests are producing fruits now. That kid will be involved in a meaningful fight that in turn would bear fruits later . He/she will fight for her mother's rights and will start winning in the years to come. Nothing like this when it comes to the sense of achievement.

On the other hand, where is this sense of community in unwed mothers in India? Where are the protests for the rights of unwed mothers in India?

About Hate crimes -- You have to consider the statistics as well. It is reported in [1] (I will look for 90s stats as well, but 2004 is also 6 years ago from now) that "Of the 9,528 victims of hate crimes in 2004, ... 15.6 percent were attacked because of a sexual-orientation bias. The majority of those victims, 60.9 percent, were the objects of anti-male homosexual attitudes on the part of the offenders."

Majority were against Anti-male homosexuals (902) victims as compared to Anti-Female homosexual victims that were 212. People attack women less.

Given the low number of lesbian victims (212), given very good law and order implementation in  USA and strong sense of community among LGBTs, one wouldn't loose sleep over this.

However, is the law and order situation good in small towns of India? Who will protect the unwed mother from criminals, sexual harassers, religious extremists, stone pelting? In fact, who will protect her from the corrupt police officers who rape women (see ACP Rathore case - cases like that dont come out in open everyday. They dont get justice everyday, but who will file FIR against police in India?)? Some of these perverts will assume that  the lonely unwed mother is immoral because she is unwed mother.


[1] http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html



Edited by karandel_2008 - 11 June 2010 at 10:16pm

Reserved for writing all the points (will do that after 15th deadline)

man... lesbianism is an illness what makes you think its not.. there is a fine line between freedom and responsibility..  as soon as you jump to call lesbianism normal.. you might be outraged by pedophilia... or do you think thats normal too....?