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Debate Contest: What Would You Do? (DM-REMIX) (Page 4)

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cuckoocutter

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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cuckoocutter

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
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karandel_2008

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by cuckoocutter


none, but you sure seemed to have waited till i offered that choice for you to take up that edition:) also, that's two of us who read it like that- qwertyes and myself.

it does seem however u r pinning ur hopes on finding the biological mom, not the great american opportunity that was initially bandied about (to which i had a response in the section that gauri dismissed). there were also issues related to ciustody rights etc that you still havent gotten around to wriggling out of yet. :)

also in your previous post, you suggest that if i were right then society should want more unwed moms seeing how that were such a good thing for the kid. see i cant believe we are even debating this. the simple answer is that society weighs all aspects, including the fact that it could not be an easy life for the single mom. even if the kid turns out feeling loved, there's also her to consider. given the debate premise, i had it from the kid's perspective, not necessarily the larger societal interests.



If you both read it such that "born" means "adopted" then I am sorry to say that you misread it. I don't know if points will be deducted for misreading the debate topic, but here I am just pointing it out.

What next? should we read "born to an unwed mother" as a gift of god or yet again adopted?

@Pinning my hopes: I say calling it a case of adoption is pinning hopes on misreading the text.


@my previous post: I suggest you reply in detail to my post because that was not the only point in my post. Meanwhile I will read your replies to Gauri and Gauri's reply to you on "American opportunity"


EDITED: to correct the quote name typos from "color" to "cuckoocutter" and "that" to "then". 



Edited by karandel_2008 - 06 June 2010 at 7:21am

karandel_2008

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karandel_2008

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 5:29pm | IP Logged
@cuckoo: I know that till now I just replied to the possibilities offered by you.

Regarding the points that I can try to defend, here is one (I may not be the first to bring it up):

If we compare 2 cases then in the case of unwed mother, she is alone. Whereas, in the case of lesbian couple they are a couple.

Unwed mother will also need some care and love herself - this factor will also affect the kid. Sometimes she will need some adult to speak her heart out, fend off the social pressure and discuss things with an adult about some important decisions for the kid. However, she will be alone and rather she will have to fend off sexual advances of some men towards her who would try to be "friends" with that lonely woman.

There is a possibility that her parents will join her, but its just a possibility and not a given as per se in the topic. But, feel free to discuss it and I will reply as I am open to some possibilities.

However, in the topic its a given that the lesbian couple will be a couple. "Two plus a child" are better than "a lonely person plus a child", when it comes to fending off social pressure that results from things that are considered a taboo in the society, Its also better because they can consult each other for somethings regarding the kid.

For the lesbian couples, there are other numerous advantages of being a couple. For example, one person can go earn a living and other can take care of the infant, etc.

qwertyesque

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by karandel_2008

Originally posted by cuckoocutter

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Born to lesbian parents doesn even make sense.. they just adopt a kid..


absolutely. :)

but it's revealing to see how very much the lesbian-lifers want to assume a biological mom in their lives. i suppose the frequent flier coupons, toysRus, fat-cat american ways dont take them as far as they were letting on initially. :)


@just adopt a kid: In other words you are asking that we edit the debate topic text to suit your argument. What more editions are in your mind? :)
The assumption that having biolgical mom factored in the mix.. is by itself an assumption... lesbains cant produce family units with real siblings.. they will all be step-siblings...
besides all arguments are made on assumptions...that lesbianism is normal... when the debate topic indicates this itself a could be a  taboo...

karandel_2008

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karandel_2008

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by karandel_2008



@just adopt a kid: In other words you are asking that we edit the debate topic text to suit your argument. What more editions are in your mind? :)



The assumption that having biolgical mom factored in the mix.. is by itself an assumption... lesbains cant produce family units with real siblings.. they will all be step-siblings... besides all arguments are made on assumptions...that lesbianism is normal... when the debate topic indicates this itself a could be a  taboo...




You may assume anything, but the "fact" is that it is written in the debate topic description "born to lesbian couple". Born is not equal to adopted! 

How it was done? --there are many possibilities, just like in the case of the unwed mother.

Otherwise I can show you a long list of assumptions -- The language being used here is not English, Unwed mother in India was also lesbian, Unwed mother also adopted the kid, unwed mother abandoned the kid as soon as kid was born, unwed mother flew to USA as soon as kid was born, unwed mother actually had a secret husband who was hiding with her...etc. How do they sound?

*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 8:29pm | IP Logged

If I had to choose between the two lifestyles, I would pick being born to an unwed mother in small town India. Despite the taboo associated with premarital sex and unwed mothers, I think I would be able to live a better life in India as opposed to the US. Although the US has greater opportunities and may be able to provide a better lifestyle, there are kids born in India everyday to middle class families, who lead decent lives.

Society may not be accepting of my mother's marital status, but there are many kids in the nation that grow up without a paternal figure in their lives day in and day out. I would be one of them, and I'd have my mother to support me, raise me, and comfort me. Because at the end of the day, I think the bigger stigma should be given to my father, who left my mother without marrying her.

I do not deny that the challenges I will face due to the difficulties of being a fatherless child will be fierce, however, I do think I'll have a much easier life as compared to a child who grows up with a lesbian couple. In society, I will only have to explain only my father's absence as opposed to the American child who will not only have to explain the absence of a father, but also a presence of a second mother.

Despite America's more accepting nature, same sex couples were, and in many places still are, looked down upon. The child who is raised in this family would go out and see his friends' parents as mom and dad, and come home to mom and mom. How do you expect a child to not only accept that, but also understand that? Is the absence of a father not enough that now the child is held responsible for dealing with society's view of what is considered moral and what is not?

Granted American society has evolved, but even today, you do not go to school and hear a child tell you about his lesbian or gay parents. Society may have accepted same sex couples, but to no degree have they accepted families with same-sex parents.

Therefore, I think that a child born to an unwed mother in India will be able to overcome the stigma society has set upon him far easier than the child in America will.

*Woh Ajnabee*

IF-Sizzlerz

*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posts: 22792

Posted: 05 June 2010 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
I think that everyone who is officially participating should clearly state their views in a single post and then move on in refuting/agreeing with the other person's argument. It is much easier to refute and counter someone's argument, then it is to present your own case and evidence needed to support that case.

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