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Debate Contest: What Would You Do? (DM-REMIX) (Page 3)

qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by cuckoocutter

Originally posted by Gauri_3


Thank God I have the mother's love in double dose and I never had to deal with being rejected by a biological parent.
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the debate premise is a kid born into a lesbian family. i took that to naturally mean a kid they adopted, so the question of having one biological parent around did not arise in my mind.

but even if we stack the deck in your favor and assume that one of them had the kid biologically, that could get very messy. does the biological mom agree to hand joint custody over the kid in case she separates fm her partner? if she does not, what does it say about the kind of relationship she got goin with her partner- an arrangement where she gets to find sexual gratification and perhaps some companionship? either way, is any of this healthy for the kid? i dont think so.

one way or the other, i cant believe the lesbian couple will hold their kid as close to them as the unwed single mom in india. for the mom in india, her kid is the driving, perhaps even the SOLE, purpose of her life. for the lesbian couple, their needs go beyond the child. clearly, the kid was not all they wanted outa life.
Born to lesbian parents doesn even make sense.. they just adopt  a kid.. they could have adopted a pet as well.. The basic choice for anyone to select to be born in tthe US and brought up in unusual circumstances if they have faced hardships in life. Somebody coming from Patna or some other high crime town  will find US teh safest placeon earth.. people from mumbai wont have those similar feelings..
Also, this whole debates undermines or ignores scouting around as child brought up by lesbians..... that kid in 1991 would end up watching Nirvana do drugs and unable to stand  humiliation kill himself or those two women.. due to sheer social pressure...end up in jail and end up with a bleak future....
 
On the other hand.. the guy born in India will work hard against that veri social pressure and one fine day take up a job..in the USA  and support in mother his much better way.Smile
karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
Now that Cuckoo is born in India, I would like to be born in USA.


- Adopted or Born to Lesbian couples? I think its clear from the word "born" that one of them is the biological mother and I will be assuming the same.

- Mother's love: In general, all biological mothers love their kids a lot and thats why they are called mothers. 

On the other hand Cuckkoo makes it sound as if unwed mother's love would be "obsessive" after she has gone through lots of hardships and has only her child to cling to herself. If the love turns out to be obsessive then there is a danger that the kid will turn into a "Munna/munni/babuas" or mama's boy/girl who will be too dependent on his mother, even when he/she grows up.

Motherly love that is not obsessive can be provided by every biological mother even if she is a lesbian.

Personally I am an Indian by heart (and will remain so) and I am so happy(sometimes in tears) to see people arguing for the Indian side, but let me be the devil's advocate - I will argue for the case of lesbian couples. I prefer small arguments because time is money - money is important.  One coincidence is that I will be using the importance of  monetary advantages to my side. 
cuckoocutter Senior Member

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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Beyond_the_Veil IF-Sizzlerz

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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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cuckoocutter Senior Member

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karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 4:03pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Cuckoocutter



how convenient of you to make that assumption, but never mind.:) now tell me- how'd the kid come around? did the biological mom have a man first, then sometime later decide that oops, she was really more inclined towards a lesbian relationship? or did something get put into a test-tube? i can understand your desire to have a biological parent (heck i was trying to be eloquent on that score myself right when i started), but how natural is any of this in the lesbian lifestyle?

My point is that if one will read clearly "you would be born to a long time committed lesbian couple in a moderate town" then it is correct to at least discard the possibility of being "adopted". Otherwise its just a case of mistake while reading the debate text.

Now as per your questions on how the kid was born? - there are as many numerous questions that can be asked in the case of unwed mother. All the possibilities like test-tube exist for unwed mother as well. Some possibilities have more chances and some less.

You cant be assuming a particular possibility just based on the chance whereas first of all that assumption was not specified in the debate topic text.

Only valid assumption from "one would be born to a long time committed lesbian couple" would be one that indicates a biological mother.



your other point was about obsession. well, if you call it obsession, then you'd likely call most indian moms obsessive.
their kids turn out fine in spite of it, dont they, less drugged out, less sexed out, less confused in life.


Most Indian moms are "not" unwed and are lets say normal. However are you saying that just the fact of being unwed makes an unwed mom's love something very special? It appears to be so from your first post. If this "better love" turned out to be the best thing then society would have wished to have most mothers unwed.
 


In fact, if we take your less-control-is-good strategy, then we do end up with the usual american way- cutting their teen kids loose and having them fend for themselves. that great american experiment in imparting independent bearing generally doesnt work out too well does it? it leaves the kid confused, unloved, susceptible to negative peer pressure.


If you will read my text above then from "obsession" I am talking about your argument of "extra love" that you claim arises from being unwed. You already talked about control here, thus, my point would be more-control-is-bad. That in fact leaves the kid confused and dependent, who cant take any decision on his/her own. Imagine a 20-30 years old kid asking his extra controlling mom for each and every decision.


See it's just the rare kid who can deal with parents who are detached and still turn out independent and strong.

counting on that happenin is like looking to the high heavens for manna to fall. :) most often, strong parental love in the formative years is essential, especially during the turbulent teen years. in my case, my mom's "obsession" sees me through my teen years. time for independence comes later when i go away to college.

if i had to guess, i'd think a teen often has other distractions, things going on at school etc. The love you call obsessive gets filtered down by the time he perceives it. to him, it is just unquestioned love, not obsession. that's why you gotta think of it from the kid's perspective, not go experimenting the american way.

Again I am just dismissing the "extra love" factor in your point.
Regarding "unquestioned love" and taking care of kid during turbulent times can be done by any biological mother. And that before even starting to discuss american way vs indian way





Edited by karandel_2008 - 05 June 2010 at 4:18pm
karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 05 June 2010 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by cuckoocutter

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Born to lesbian parents doesn even make sense.. they just adopt a kid..


absolutely. :)

but it's revealing to see how very much the lesbian-lifers want to assume a biological mom in their lives. i suppose the frequent flier coupons, toysRus, fat-cat american ways dont take them as far as they were letting on initially. :)


@just adopt a kid: In other words you are asking that we edit the debate topic text to suit your argument. What more editions are in your mind? :)


Edited by karandel_2008 - 05 June 2010 at 4:17pm

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