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Karma and God (Page 7)

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Summer3

IF-Stunnerz

Summer3

Joined: 24 September 2007

Posts: 44219

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 9:11am | IP Logged
Originally posted by xobile

Heyy Summerji! Do you remember me from Music ka Maha Muqqabla Forum? We judged IF's MkMM together!

All religions teach people that God is looking over their actions in some way. If you do bad things (what constitutes a 'bad' thing could be the topic of many debates, let's no get bogged down by all that), you will face consequences. In Abrahamic religions, the consequences are heaven or hell. In Indic religions, however, we assume that Karma operates like any other natural process. Just like there WILL be ripples in a pond if you throw in a pebble, just as a ball that goes up WILL come down, just as force causes motion, similarly our actions will produce consequences FOR OURSELVES. Just as the size of the ripple depends on the size of the pebble, so the severity/utility of the consequence depends on how good/bad your actions are. As the Soul is immortal, all our Karma will catch up with us sooner or later and produce good/bad consequences.

Buddhism has shown how this theory can work well without a concept of 'GOD'. As a Hindu I believe that God is the Ultimate Truth, and God is a constant fact, whilst Karma is a process within that phenomenon.
Welcome Xobile ji.
You are always very balanced and respectable.Smile
yes Karma relates to the manifested created dream world.
But when we awake the dream exists no more; but it is so hard to wake up.Sleepy

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xobile

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xobile

IF-Rockerz

xobile

Joined: 09 January 2010

Posts: 9952

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 9:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by xobile

Heyy Summerji! Do you remember me from Music ka Maha Muqqabla Forum? We judged IF's MkMM together!

All religions teach people that God is looking over their actions in some way. If you do bad things (what constitutes a 'bad' thing could be the topic of many debates, let's no get bogged down by all that), you will face consequences. In Abrahamic religions, the consequences are heaven or hell. In Indic religions, however, we assume that Karma operates like any other natural process. Just like there WILL be ripples in a pond if you throw in a pebble, just as a ball that goes up WILL come down, just as force causes motion, similarly our actions will produce consequences FOR OURSELVES. Just as the size of the ripple depends on the size of the pebble, so the severity/utility of the consequence depends on how good/bad your actions are. As the Soul is immortal, all our Karma will catch up with us sooner or later and produce good/bad consequences.

Buddhism has shown how this theory can work well without a concept of 'GOD'. As a Hindu I believe that God is the Ultimate Truth, and God is a constant fact, whilst Karma is a process within that phenomenon.
Welcome Xobile ji.
You are always very balanced and respectable.Smile
yes Karma relates to the manifested created dream world.
But when we awake the dream exists no more; but it is so hard to wake up.Sleepy


Xobile JI Shocked  Itni izzat dekar chhota kar diya apne toh!

Yep - sometimes we have nightmares in this world, but refuse to wake up! Only if the brightest of all lights is shone in our face will we wake Sleepy


Summer3

IF-Stunnerz

Summer3

Joined: 24 September 2007

Posts: 44219

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 11:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by xobile

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by xobile

Heyy Summerji! Do you remember me from Music ka Maha Muqqabla Forum? We judged IF's MkMM together!

All religions teach people that God is looking over their actions in some way. If you do bad things (what constitutes a 'bad' thing could be the topic of many debates, let's no get bogged down by all that), you will face consequences. In Abrahamic religions, the consequences are heaven or hell. In Indic religions, however, we assume that Karma operates like any other natural process. Just like there WILL be ripples in a pond if you throw in a pebble, just as a ball that goes up WILL come down, just as force causes motion, similarly our actions will produce consequences FOR OURSELVES. Just as the size of the ripple depends on the size of the pebble, so the severity/utility of the consequence depends on how good/bad your actions are. As the Soul is immortal, all our Karma will catch up with us sooner or later and produce good/bad consequences.

Buddhism has shown how this theory can work well without a concept of 'GOD'. As a Hindu I believe that God is the Ultimate Truth, and God is a constant fact, whilst Karma is a process within that phenomenon.
Welcome Xobile ji.
You are always very balanced and respectable.Smile
yes Karma relates to the manifested created dream world.
But when we awake the dream exists no more; but it is so hard to wake up.Sleepy


Xobile JI Shocked  Itni izzat dekar chhota kar diya apne toh!

Yep - sometimes we have nightmares in this world, but refuse to wake up! Only if the brightest of all lights is shone in our face will we wake Sleepy


Xobile yes a bright light is useful to burn through the thick layer of ignorance.
Truth is always simple and  generally we make things complicated by thinking along the wrong lines.
Even after knowing and experiencing it one may be easily sucked in and embroiled in the Untruth.LOL
Indeed attachment is a powerful magnet.

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xobile

qwertyesque

IF-Rockerz

qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006

Posts: 5953

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 1:15pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by jettythegod

karma is just a way of scaring people into being good :P
LOLLOL......
 
 

qwertyesque

IF-Rockerz

qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006

Posts: 5953

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by Believe

Originally posted by karandel_2008

I saw some interest in MOTW for karma discussion thus I am bumping this thread for discussion.

There are many versions of karma: Your versions of Karma and then Karma A, Karma B, etc.

So you people believe in which theory?
You do it and it is finished....thats why I believe..the action comes out of your present awareness... it is not karma,.....if it comes out of the past it is binding, it is karma...Smile
It is said that we are born to clear outstanding karma (good and bad karma); problem is that fresh karma is created each and every day. Another problem is that the plus points and and minus points cannot be used to cancell each other out.
But following spiritual life karma can be burnt and cancelled.
I believe the seed of karma is desire. Desire for something keeps us moving and living and wanting. Desire first arises as a thought very often.
this is a belief only amongst hindius alone.. I am not sure how other religion reconcile across the death barrier.. I am not sure if they even believe in coming back leave alone coming back as a monkey!!????

xobile

IF-Rockerz

xobile

Joined: 09 January 2010

Posts: 9952

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by Summer3

Originally posted by Believe

Originally posted by karandel_2008

I saw some interest in MOTW for karma discussion thus I am bumping this thread for discussion.

There are many versions of karma: Your versions of Karma and then Karma A, Karma B, etc.

So you people believe in which theory?
You do it and it is finished....thats why I believe..the action comes out of your present awareness... it is not karma,.....if it comes out of the past it is binding, it is karma...Smile
It is said that we are born to clear outstanding karma (good and bad karma); problem is that fresh karma is created each and every day. Another problem is that the plus points and and minus points cannot be used to cancell each other out.
But following spiritual life karma can be burnt and cancelled.
I believe the seed of karma is desire. Desire for something keeps us moving and living and wanting. Desire first arises as a thought very often.
this is a belief only amongst hindius alone.. I am not sure how other religion reconcile across the death barrier.. I am not sure if they even believe in coming back leave alone coming back as a monkey!!????


Most major religions are built upon the premise that there is life beyond this life. In the beliefs of some religions, once you die in this world you will live on for eternity in heaven or hell.

return_to_hades

IF-Veteran Member

return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20237

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Mister.K.



I always wanted to take a stab at Mister. K's karma questions. Not sure if it is upto his standards. But nonetheless, karma fascinates me. I'm curious about what karma scenarios he can set up.
  • Is karma just another name for cause and effect?
    Yes to me Karma is about cause and effect. The universe is built on certain principles akin to If X then Y, if A then B. The entire system is a lot more complex with many variables, permutations and combinations. Our choices between X and A, determine if Y or B occurs.
  • According to popular belief, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as shaping the past, present, and future experiences. It's called karmaphal. Do you think there is a dispenser of this karmaphal? Is there an arbitrator who rewards / punishes good deeds and bad deeds?
    I believe the universe itself is the arbitrator. The principles of cause and effect determine the consequence of our deeds. To me rewarding good and punishing bad is reducing the process to simplicity. Whether a deed is good or bad is variable according to the context of the situation. The universe may not view it the way we do. Nonetheless, people will always get the effect of their deeds.
  • Is karma similar or dissimilar or completely unrelated to destiny? Do you believe in destiny?
    We make our own destiny. I perceive life is like an open ended MMPORG. The makers have created a set universe with its features, rules, conditions etc. But how you play the game and how you go about things is completely up to you. That which is destiny is the effect of past causes.
  • Is Karma germane to only human beings or all sentient beings?
    No cause and effect is universal. Even the non-sentient objects in the universe receive the effects.
  • Do you suppose all the matter / energy in the universe is endowed with sentience?
    I'm not sure if it is conventional sentience. But I believe in what I call 'the force', and we can feel the force and communicate with it on a certain level.
  • Is karma responsible for the cycle of cause and effect only on earth or the entire universe or neither?
    The entire universe.
  • According to most studies, the first humans shared a common ancestor with modern African apes and this common ancestor existed 5 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids. What role did karma play in the above evolution?
    Cause and effect. The ones that evolved into hominids, did things that triggered them towards that end of evolution. The chimps did things that triggered them towards a different end. There were also probably other actions taking place in the universe that effected the evolution to take the course it did. I may never understand how everything occurred or what follows what, but karma plays a part in everything.




Edited by return_to_hades - 06 June 2010 at 2:46pm

debayon

IF-Sizzlerz

debayon

Joined: 01 October 2008

Posts: 20191

Posted: 06 June 2010 at 3:13pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by xobile

Originally posted by debayon

Shocked This brings back the whole The existence of Karma/God and you know my answer to it


I don't know your answer to it, Debu :( Share your answer with us!
Well first of all, I do not believe in God at all, I'm a pure atheist, because there is no physical existence whatsoever of God's existence, and I cannot think of any heavenly body spiritually, I'm not that deep. For me, it's a hoax. What further pisses me off is idol worship. I mean, WTH? Different people have different perceptions about what their spiritual leader looks like, why enforce a sculpture and ask them to pray to that 'god' or 'goddess'. If you ask me, religion has become purely  lucrative business nowdays, with sadhus babas etc making the most financially of the false pretense they have.
 
Coming to karma, it is another ridiculous concept I've heard of. I mean, upon what basis can one say that what goes around comes around? It is all just luck and probability, nothing more, nothing less.

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