Mahabharat Analysis and Debate - Page 5

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: lola610

- Shakuni's main beef was against Bhishma, as he was the one who arranged Gandhari's marriage... same with Amba, went from a her to a he because of the love she lost when Bhishma kidnapped her for his brother... in both of these cases, do you guys think Bhishma's behavior justifiable because it fit with the politics of the time (which he had to subscribe to because of his devotion to Hastinapur), or was taking control of these girls' future just plain wrong?

let's ponder over Amba's case first. Wiki says this:

In the process of finding a bride for his half-brother the young king Vichitravirya, Bhishma cleverly abducted princesses Amba, Ambika and Ambalika of Kashi (Varanasi) from the assemblage of suitors at their swayamvara. Salwa, the ruler of Saubala, and Amba (the eldest princess) were in love. Upon reaching Hastinapura, Amba confided in Bhishma that she wished to wed Salwa. Bhishma then sent her back to Salwa who turned her down as it was humiliating for a man to accept a woman who had been so long in the company of another man. She then naturally approached Bhishma for marriage who refused her, citing his oath. Amba, humiliated and enraged beyond measure, vowed to avenge herself against Bhishma even if it meant being reborn over and over again.

Bheeshm did not know about Amba being in love when he abducted her with her sisters. Upon learning, he did let her go to Salwa. Now, Salwa was the one who turned her down. As far as Amba approaching Bhishma for marriage --- we all know about Bheeshm's pratigya. Bheeshm's reasons for turning Amba's proposal down was justified. Apart from the oath, Bheeshm has his prior life's prayshchit to do in this life as well. There was no way he could have married anyone - leave alone Amba. The legend behind Bheeshm's birth is as follows:

Once the eight Vasus ("Ashtavasus") visited Vashishta's ashram accompanied by their wives. One of the wives took a fancy to Nandini, Vashishta's wish-bearing cow and asked her husband Prabhasa to steal it from Vashishta. Prabhasa then stole the cow with the help of the others who were all consequently cursed by Vashishta to be born in the world of men. Upon the Vasus appealing to Vashishta's mercy, the seven Vasus who had assisted in stealing Nandini had their curse mitigated such that they would be liberated from their human birth as soon as they were born; however, Prabhasa being protagonist of the theft, was cursed to endure a longer life on the earth. The curse, however is softened to the extent that he would be one of the most illustrious men of his time. It was this Prabhasa who took birth as Devavratha (Bhishma).

I also read in the tiny tot MB that Vashishth cursed Prabhas with celibacy in his next life because he stole Nandini out of his love for his wife and his desire to please her. keeping this in mind --- Devavrat was destined to take the bhishm pratigya that he is known for.

However, the question arises why did Bheesm has to "KIDNAP" the sisters? Could he not have gone to their father with marriage proposal from his half brother's behalf?

LJ, K, Kal El, Empti --- do you guys know why Bheeshma had to resort to kidnapping. Whether he was at fault or not depends on that cause now. Since other two sisters - Ambika and Ambalika - were duly married to Vichitravirya, Amba's fate has a lot to do with her lover turning her down later on.

More on Shakuni later.

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blue-ice.

@blue-ice.

IF-Addictz

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: Gauri_3
I have only seen BRC;s MB so far and I love it!

same here😊

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: blue-ice

same here😊

your same here reminds me of "same to same" from SRK and SK during Filmfare awards😆

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-SilverFlames-

@-SilverFlames-

IF-Rockerz

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

@ Gauri.. As far as I know or remember..Vichitravirya was not given an invitation to partake in the swayamvar and therefore Bishma himself went to Kashi and took the princesses.. He knew that no one would be able to defeat him and therefore although the Kings invited taunted him and mocked that he was lustful he with dignity took the brides..

Shalva Naresh fought Bhishma as he loved Amba... He too was defeated but instead of killing Bhishma gave him his life in charity.. Amba was sent from Hastinapur to Shalve but the king did not accept her as he felt that she too would be charity that's why Amba returned to Hastinapur and wanted Bhishma to accept her..

That is what I know.. I maybe wrong and anyone can feel free to correct me. Hope that helps Gauri..x

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blue-ice.

@blue-ice.

IF-Addictz

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

your same here reminds me of "same to same" from SRK and SK during Filmfare awards😆

OK wht happened there......are u talking abt the latest FF award.......haven't seen it 😭

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: SanRajDeewani
@ Gauri.. As far as I know or remember..Vichitravirya was not given an invitation to partake in the swayamvar and therefore Bishma himself went to Kashi and took the princesses.. He knew that no one would be able to defeat him and therefore although the Kings invited taunted him and mocked that he was lustful he with dignity took the brides..

Shalva Naresh fought Bhishma as he loved Amba... He too was defeated but instead of killing Bhishma gave him his life in charity.. Amba was sent from Hastinapur to Shalve but the king did not accept her as he felt that she too would be charity that's why Amba returned to Hastinapur and wanted Bhishma to accept her..

That is what I know.. I maybe wrong and anyone can feel free to correct me. Hope that helps Gauri..x

hmmm.....looks like it was a common practice in those days to win a princess in swyamvar. I was under the impression that who ever won, had to marry the princess. However, I now know of two scenarios that conflict with my understanding. They are:

1. Bheeshm winning the swyamwar and then kidnapping all three sisters to be married off to Vichitravirya

2. Karn trying to win Draupadi for his friend Duryodhan after Duryodhan was unable to even lift the dhanush.

Another point to ponder --- If Amba was in love with Shalve, why did she agree to be part of the swyamwar? She should have known that she will be given to anyone who wins her in the swyamwar.

Bheeshm did send her back to Shalve who refused her. How come she did not request Vichitravirya to marry her upon getting rejected by Shalve? Why did she request Bheeshm who could not marry given his oath?

Keeping these points in mind --- can we blame Bhishm for Amba's plight? I think not. Hope Lola reads this analysis.

Thanks for the input, SRD.

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: blue-ice

OK wht happened there......are u talking abt the latest FF award.......haven't seen it 😭

yeah. you have to see it to undertsand the humor😆 They should re-run it on Sony one of these days.

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: lola610

- Shakuni's main beef was against Bhishma, as he was the one who arranged Gandhari's marriage... same with Amba, went from a her to a he because of the love she lost when Bhishma kidnapped her for his brother... in both of these cases, do you guys think Bhishma's behavior justifiable because it fit with the politics of the time (which he had to subscribe to because of his devotion to Hastinapur), or was taking control of these girls' future just plain wrong?

Was Gandhari forced to marry Dhritrashtra? Wasn't the proposal accepted by her parents?

I need to know what happened there for me to sucessfully defend Bheeshm Pitameh - one of my absolute favorite character from MB thanks to Mukesh Khanna who played the role.

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blue-ice.

@blue-ice.

IF-Addictz

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

Was Gandhari forced to marry Dhritrashtra? Wasn't the proposal accepted by her parents?

I need to know what happened there for me to sucessfully defend Bheeshm Pitameh - one of my absolute favorite character from MB thanks to Mukesh Khanna who played the role.

I loved his voice...

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200467

Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: lola610

- Shakuni's main beef was against Bhishma, as he was the one who arranged Gandhari's marriage... same with Amba, went from a her to a he because of the love she lost when Bhishma kidnapped her for his brother... in both of these cases, do you guys think Bhishma's behavior justifiable because it fit with the politics of the time (which he had to subscribe to because of his devotion to Hastinapur), or was taking control of these girls' future just plain wrong?

Where is everyone today?

Okay, coming back to Shakuni --- why would his main beef be against Bhishma? It was Dhritrashtra who, as the legend goes, threw Shakuni's whole entire family in prison upon learning that Gandhari was first married off to a goat before getting married to Dhritrashtra. Here's the legend:

Shakuni was born to King Subala of Gandhara. His sister Gandhari was married to king Dhritarashtra. As per legend, on the advice of astrologers, to avert a calamity it was said that Gandhari was married to a goat before getting married to Dhritarashtra. And the goat had been sacrificed promptly thereafter. Technically, this made Gandhari a widow and Dhritarashtra her second husband. Many years later when her husband Dhritarashtra learns about this truth, shocked and enraged, Dhritrashtra puts Gandhari's entire family,including king Subala in prison. In prison, they were served just one fistful of rice every day. Realizing that this was an elaborate plan to starve them to death, Gandhari's father declared that none but his youngest son would eat the sparse food being served, so that at least one amongst them would survive to avenge the death of the rest. The youngest son of king Subala was Shakuni. He survived and swore not to rest until all of Kuru kingdom is destroyed . He used the bones of his father to make the dice with which he was able to defeat the Pandavas in the gambling match, and thus which eventually led to the war at Kurukshetra and also to the destruction of entire Kuru clan.

I don't think we can pin this on Bheeshma.

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