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Caste&gender based discrimination in India today (Page 2)

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pogo

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pogo

Joined: 17 January 2010

Posts: 402

Posted: 08 March 2010 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by rongna

Originally posted by pogo

Originally posted by Emptiness

Originally posted by pogo

I'm not biased against any caste or religion Empty bhai. I just stand for truth and justice, that's all. I was born in a hindu forward caste family. I have renounced my caste. I fill in application forms and all  as 'non religious'.

       Till date no scholarly historian has refuted the 'Aryan invasion theory'. Some fundamentalists and biased historians have come up with new aryan theories but with zero proofs. Statues from 'Harappa' and 'Mohanjodaro' have the physical features of Dravidians.

       Yup caste system was not rigid in early vedic period. And women did enjoy good status in the society. Evil customs and practices crept in later.  'Manu smrithi' talks about pouring led in the ears of a sudra who come to hear vedic verses. You can read about those multitudes of laws, rules and punishments that were used to oppress women and lower castes in scriptures like Manu Smrithi.

    


Don't get me wrong Pogo, I do not support the caste-system in any shape or form, and I don't identify myself with any caste.  I also come from a Hindu background, but I'm an agnostic.  All of my information comes either from journals, or books published by experts in their field of study.

"Aryan" and "Dravidian" aren't racial groups, they're purely linguistic concepts.  There is no such thing as "Aryan" or "Dravidian" traits or genes, both North and South Indian populations are extremely diverse.

I know in India they continue to teach the AIT in schools as if it was an accepted "fact", however it is widely discredited theory in all scientific fields, there isn't a single shred of archaeological evidence which supports the Aryan Invasion Theory, read some of J M Kenoyer's articles, he's one of the world's leading authorities on the IVC.

Yes there are fundamentalists and biased historians (btw this is on both sides, not just Indians) with vestige interests who hold onto particular theories for their political/ideological agenda, however not everyone who disagrees with the AIT is a fundamentalist, biased or has any ideological affiliations.  There are many respected scholars both from the West and India who reject the AIT on valid grounds... on the whole, most people do not subscribe to the invasion theory, however there is another theory that some scholars subscribe to, Aryan Migration Theory.  This again, is a hotly dispute subject, with little consensus.


I didint get you wrong man. I know you are no supporter of caste system and all. By the way, i'm also agnosticSmile

  Scriptures give lots of evidences. We see that in vedas, puranas e.t.c.  all the asuras are depicted as dark skinned and all devas fair skinned. The fair skinned fight with the dark skinned and win over them. Then you can say that vedas and puranas cannot be considered as evidences. Aryans have been identified as a sub group of caucasian race, who where nomads and migrated to regions including India. Dravidians have more of negrito features, dark skin, curly hair and flatter noses.

We are moving away from the original topic. So what you have to say about the oppression faced by backward classes even after more than 60 years of independence?  They still have little access to  public wells, food, shelter, education e.t.c. Vast majority of them still lead a sub-human life.


dude you are wrong, there are also other black people from the scripture who are considered to be noble and heroes and valiant. for example, ramji was dark in complexion yet he was the hero of the ramayan. krishnaji was dark in complexion yet he was a very respected prince whom the pandavas listened to, respect to and etc etc. draupadi is dark in complexion yet she had the honor of becoming the wife of the pandavas, became queen of khandavasprashath, indraprasath and hastinapur. she became the mother of five great heroes the sons of the pandavas and the list goes on and on.


        Scriptures have been manipulated over the years. and involve myth and fantasy. Do you really believe that Ram, Draupadi, Krishna and all are historical figures? No solid proofs yet. I was talking about the general facts that we see in most scriptures. Devas, the fair skinned engage in war with asuras and defeat them. Will you say that Bali, Sugriva, Hanuman, the Vanara sena and all were non humans, monkeys as described in the scriptures??! If they were real then they must have belonged to some dravidian group who were in aliance with aryans. They were depicted as sub humans by the biased authors of the scripts probably.

        There are various instances of caste discrimination, discriptions of four varnas and their positions in the society in many of the puranas and in our epics ramayana and mahabharatha. For instance the tale of Shambuka.

Shambuka:

   In Ramayana it is said that a Brahmin died because all sorts of unjust things (Adharma) took place under Rama's rule. Rama asked where the injustice was done. What wrong was being perpetrated asked Rama.
The Brahmins told Rama to go forth and find out the cause for himself.
Accordingly he went out in search and found Shambuka doing penance. 'What are you doing? asked Rama. 'I am worshiping god' said Shambuka.
Rama became angry and shouted 'You Shudra! You should worship only the Brahmin! Instead, how dare you worship god?. This is adharma. You should be cut into pieces.'
Rama kills Shambuka.



Edited by pogo - 09 March 2010 at 3:16am

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4teen12

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4teen12

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Posted: 09 March 2010 at 4:25am | IP Logged
No reservations or subsidies will ever solve this problem.
If politicians pass any bills to this extent, the only interest is the vote-bank n not that of the ones for whom it is passed.
 
The only solution is "Education - popoulation control- education - population control' till we reach a stage when we dont have a backward class

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Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:16am | IP Logged
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nisha80

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Posted: 09 March 2010 at 6:40am | IP Logged
I agree.. even though they are given reservations... if u go to any company..college..backward caste ppl are still treated badlyOuch


Edited by nisha80 - 09 March 2010 at 6:41am

_Angie_

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_Angie_

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Posted: 09 March 2010 at 10:30am | IP Logged
Discrimination based on gender & caste does exist but I would rather that the govt take some strict disciplinary action ( actually implement the punishment) than dole out reservation after reservation. Its a shame that bias on basis of caste & gender continues to exist in free India !

pogo

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pogo

Joined: 17 January 2010

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Posted: 09 March 2010 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by 4teen12

No reservations or subsidies will ever solve this problem.
If politicians pass any bills to this extent, the only interest is the vote-bank n not that of the ones for whom it is passed.
 
The only solution is "Education - popoulation control- education - population control' till we reach a stage when we dont have a backward class


         Yes, reservation and subsidies wont be of much help. Government introduced reservation with a view to uplift the oppressed, downtrodden sections of the society, but only a small minority of people from backward classes got benefited by such measures. Vast majority of them still remain oppressed.

       Government has introduced free education for all.  But large part of the the backward class population are still denied this right  to education. In many backward regions of our country, even today, members of the upper castes dont allow children of lower caste people to sit and study together with their children in public schools. Most backward caste parents are so poor that they cant even find enough food for their children, so how are they going to send then to school? Also the children are forced to work and earn for their families. India is still the country with largest number of child labourers in the world. Coming to girls, in the backward regions, plight of girl children belonging to upper castes is not different from that of their lowercaste counterparts. Girls are forced to stay home and do all the household chores while there brothers go to school. You find large number of girl children, working as domestic servants in rural India.

      Coming to population control, the average woman in rural areas of India has little or no control over her reproductivity. Women, particularly women in rural areas, do not have access to safe and self-controlled methods of contraception.

      I think the only way out, the only solution is that the oppressed classes should organise and fight for their rights and dignity with full force, without fear. As always the number of oppressors is much less than the number of oppressed. No one and nothing is going to help women and the backward classes otherthan themselves . They have to rise up and fight for their rights.


Edited by pogo - 09 March 2010 at 11:57pm

4teen12

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4teen12

Joined: 02 March 2010

Posts: 588

Posted: 10 March 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged
The other day we had called on some of our friends and I happned to get a glimpse of a show 'Lift Kara De' hosted by KJo.
I was appaled to see that the family which got the amount had 3-4 children, wife suffering from some cronical ailment, 2 or 3 children too suffering from some desease. The eldest daughter taking care of the family while the husband worked somewhere earning peanuts.
 
I wondered if the money wud actually be put to use for which it was intended and given to the family. I am sure the husband wud slosh it down his guts wid liquor.
 
It is not easy for the down trodden to raise their voice. They need another Vinob Bhave, Jagjivan Ram or JP to show them the light. They need more of the likes of us to reach out to them.
Its not easy to get the majority of them into the maifold of urbanism but it is easier to take urbanism, education, basic aminities like medicines and schooling to their backyard....but Alas!, its easier said than done.

Wid corrupt politicians spanning the constitutional network of the country, how can one expect to reach out to the rural India and till some drastic steps in terms of rules and procedures are not adopted, there is no way we can reach out to the rural masses - leave alone the benefits of subsidies and grants reaching them.
 
With a number of greedy brokers in between the actual farmer and the consumer, how can the actual 'Son of the soil' reap n heap benefits of sweating it out in the fields!!

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casper2

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casper2

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Posted: 10 March 2010 at 10:32am | IP Logged

yesterday the face of a young girl , MBA sarpanch of a village in Rajasthan was being flashed in most of the news channel. She sad she felt an attachment for the village which she used to visit as a child to meet her grandparents. She even rides a horse & a motor bike LOL A modern laxmibai in the making . It was inspiring to see the youth really taking steps to correct some of the wrongs in our society.

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