Caste&gender based discrimination in India today - Page 2

Originally posted by: pogo

I didint get you wrong man. I know you are no supporter of caste system and all. By the way, i'm also agnostic😊

  Scriptures give lots of evidences. We see that in vedas, puranas e.t.c.  all the asuras are depicted as dark skinned and all devas fair skinned. The fair skinned fight with the dark skinned and win over them.  Then you can say that vedas and puranas cannot be considered as evidences. Aryans have been identified as a sub group of caucasian race, who where nomads and migrated to regions including India. Dravidians have more of negrito features, dark skin, curly hair and flatter noses.

We are moving away from the original topic. So what you have to say about the oppression faced by backward classes even after more than 60 years of independence?  They still have little access to  public wells, food, shelter, education e.t.c. Vast majority of them still lead a sub-human life.

These are 18th/19th century racist interpretations of Hindu scriptures which have long been rejected, I challenge you to find me a traditional commentary from the Hindu tradition that makes such connections between Devas = Aryan and Asura = Dravidians, you won't.

In Puranic mythology, both Devas and Asura are siblings, the offsprings of Rishi Kashyapa, who is the grandson of Brahma. 

If you want to argue from the Vedas, the Asuras aren't even considered demons/evil or bad.  In the Rig Veda, the Asuras preside over moral and social phenomena, whilst the Devas preside over natural phenomena, and some of the deities are both Deva and Asura, such as Varuna. The demonisation of Asuras is something that evolved over time, especially in post-Vedic period.

So even from a scriptural point of view, the idea that these mythological magical deities represent "Aryans" and "Dravidians" is preposterous.

As for the original topic, it's digusting... too much corruption and dirty caste-politics, India still functions like a tribal unit.

I agree.. even though they are given reservations... if u go to any company..college..backward caste ppl are still treated badly
Edited by nisha80 - 14 years ago

Discrimination based on gender & caste does exist but I would rather that the govt take some strict disciplinary action ( actually implement the punishment) than dole out reservation after reservation. Its a shame that bias on basis of caste & gender continues to exist in free India !

Originally posted by: 4teen12

No reservations or subsidies will ever solve this problem.

If politicians pass any bills to this extent, the only interest is the vote-bank n not that of the ones for whom it is passed.

 

The only solution is "Education - popoulation control- education - population control' till we reach a stage when we dont have a backward class

         Yes, reservation and subsidies wont be of much help. Government introduced reservation with a view to uplift the oppressed, downtrodden sections of the society, but only a small minority of people from backward classes got benefited by such measures. Vast majority of them still remain oppressed.

       Government has introduced free education for all.  But large part of the the backward class population are still denied this right  to education. In many backward regions of our country, even today, members of the upper castes dont allow children of lower caste people to sit and study together with their children in public schools. Most backward caste parents are so poor that they cant even find enough food for their children, so how are they going to send then to school? Also the children are forced to work and earn for their families. India is still the country with largest number of child labourers in the world. Coming to girls, in the backward regions, plight of girl children belonging to upper castes is not different from that of their lowercaste counterparts. Girls are forced to stay home and do all the household chores while there brothers go to school. You find large number of girl children, working as domestic servants in rural India.

      Coming to population control, the average woman in rural areas of India has little or no control over her reproductivity. Women, particularly women in rural areas, do not have access to safe and self-controlled methods of contraception.

      I think the only way out, the only solution is that the oppressed classes should organise and fight for their rights and dignity with full force, without fear. As always the number of oppressors is much less than the number of oppressed. No one and nothing is going to help women and the backward classes otherthan themselves . They have to rise up and fight for their rights.
Edited by pogo - 14 years ago

The other day we had called on some of our friends and I happned to get a glimpse of a show 'Lift Kara De' hosted by KJo.

yesterday the face of a young girl , MBA sarpanch of a village in Rajasthan was being flashed in most of the news channel. She sad she felt an attachment for the village which she used to visit as a child to meet her grandparents. She even rides a horse & a motor bike 😆 A modern laxmibai in the making . It was inspiring to see the youth really taking steps to correct some of the wrongs in our society.

 
    Kerala


    Kerala is the one state with no caste discrimination and least gender based discrimination in India today.

        In the state if a person utters a single word against members of  backward classes, there will be public uproar. Everyone, regardless of their their caste or community will turn against that person. In Kerala backward classes are educated and well organised unlike their counterparts in other states. They are not denied the right to education and power, unlike in other states.



Some prominent Keralites belonging to backward classes:


  K.R. NARAYANAN  (First person from Dalit community to become 'The President of India')



 

           Born in Perumthanam, Kollam district, Kerala. After a brief stint with journalism and then studying political science at the London School of Economics with the assistance of a scholarship, Narayanan began his career in India as a member of the Indian Foreign Service under Nehru administration. He served as ambassador to Japan, United Kingdom, Thailand, Turkey, People's Republic of China and United States of America and was referred by Nehru as "the best diplomat of the country". He entered politics at Indira Gandhi's request and won three successive general elections to the Lok Sabha and served as a Minister of State in the Union Cabinet under former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. Elected as the ninth Vice-President in 1992, Narayanan went on to become the President of India in 1997. under the

Narayanan is regarded as an independent and assertive President who set several precedents and enlarged the scope of the highest constitutional office. He described himself as a "working President" who worked "within the four corners of the Constitution";  He used his discretionary powers as a President and deviated from convention and precedent in many situations, including - but not limited to ' the appointment of the Prime Minister in a hung Parliament, in dismissing a state government and imposing President's rule there at the suggestion of the Union Cabinet, and during the Kargil conflict. He presided over the golden jubilee celebrations of Indian independence and in the country's general election of 1998 became the first Indian President to vote when in office, setting another new precedent.

K.G. Balakrishnan (Current Chief Justice of India: First Dalit to become Chief Justice of India)

  Coming to women the most popular 'extremist  women freedom fighter' of India is from Kerala- 'Captain Lakshmi'.

Captain Lakshmi

Lakshmi Sahgal (or Sehgal) ne Swaminathan, also known as Captain Lakshmi. is an activist of the Indian independence movement, an ex-officer of the Indian National Army, and the Minister of Women's affairs in the Azad Hind Government. A doctor by profession, Captain Lakshmi came into the limelight in India towards the end of World War II for her role as the commander o f the Rani of Jhansi Regiment of the INA and her role as a minister in Subhas Chandra Bose's Azad Hind Government. She later became involved in politics in independent India, serving as a member of parliament in the Upper House and later running for President as a left wing candidate. Lt Col Swaminathan is commonly referred to as Captain Lakshmi in India, referring to her rank at the time of being taken prisoner in Burma, as widely reported in Indian newspapers at the end of the war and which captured the public imagination, as opposed to her not widely known promotion in the last days of Azad Hind.Edited by pogo - 13 years ago

Originally posted by: Emptiness

These are 18th/19th century racist interpretations of Hindu scriptures which have long been rejected, I challenge you to find me a traditional commentary from the Hindu tradition that makes such connections between Devas = Aryan and Asura = Dravidians, you won't.

In Puranic mythology, both Devas and Asura are siblings, the offsprings of Rishi Kashyapa, who is the grandson of Brahma. 

If you want to argue from the Vedas, the Asuras aren't even considered demons/evil or bad.  In the Rig Veda, the Asuras preside over moral and social phenomena, whilst the Devas preside over natural phenomena, and some of the deities are both Deva and Asura, such as Varuna. The demonisation of Asuras is something that evolved over time, especially in post-Vedic period.

So even from a scriptural point of view, the idea that these mythological magical deities represent "Aryans" and "Dravidians" is preposterous.

As for the original topic, it's digusting... too much corruption and dirty caste-politics, India still functions like a tribal unit.

 The original theories are supported by lots of archaeological and scriptual evidences Empty Bhai!! The new dumb theories you are talking about are not supported by any archaeologiacal evidence. Who told you that that the original theories are outdated?!!😕 'Deva-Asura' interpretations are upholded by all major Indian and world historians till date.


 Devas=Aryans and Asuras= Dravidians.

 
    History is hidden behind our mythological stories Empty bhai. The scriptures are fantasy+history. Indra is a Deva according to mythology. But according to many historians he must have been an aryan clan leader. The writers of the scriptures are aryans. Naturally they will glorify themselves.

    Rig Veda refers to  fortresses of 'dasyus'(dravidians) destroyed by the deva-'Purandara' (Indra)

  Dasyus(Dravidians) are discribed in Rig Veda  as dark and ill-favoured, snub nosed and of hostile speech. Scripture talks about Dasyus who were rich in cattle and dwelt in fortified places called 'pur', of which the aryan war god Indra destroys hundreds.

  Let us take the case of our epic 'Ramayana'. You can see that the Lankans are depicted as dark skinned 'rakshasas'. 'Rama', the Aryan king invades Lanka and defeats, 'Ravana' the Dravidian king. 'Abduction of Seetha' by Ravana was introduced by writers probably to justify Rama's attack on Ravana's kingdom.


All genuine historians around the world stick to the 'Aryan Invasion Theory'. The new theories are rejected as they are groundless. The BJP government (with the help of their own historians😆) tried to introduce these dumb theories into the school textbooks but failed!!😆 All major historians protested and easily refuted the new theories.




  Why the term 'Dravidian'?

         The earliest inhabitants used an ancient form of the present 'Tamil language' which was entirely different from language used by Aryan tribes. Thus they are refered by many historians as 'Dravidians'. They were called Dasyus by Aryans.( Refer 'Rig Veda')



    The Aryan migration

        According to generally accepted view by most genuine historians today (not the biased fundamentalists) by about 2000BC, the great steppeland from Poland to Central Asia was inhabited by semi-nomadic barbarians, who were tall, comparatively fair, and mostly long headed. They were mainly pastoral. In the early part of the second millenium BC, because of dessication of pasture lands these people were on the move. They migrated in bands southwards, eastwards and westwards, conquering local populations. The marauding tribesmen also gradually came to India.  The Aryans spoke Indo-Europian languages, which are currently prevelant in changed forms all over Europe, Iran and India.


Edited by pogo - 14 years ago

Originally posted by: pogo

 Condition of 'women' and 'backward classes' in India after 6 decades of independence 

History:

Dravidians the earliest inhabitants of the country had a well structured administrative and social system thousands of years back, before the advent of Aryans.  Women had a very important role in the society. When Aryans who were nomads, reached India they were amazed at what they saw here.  Well structured economy, cities, flourishing trade, art forms.( best example is Indus Valley civilization) Aryans being a warrior clan defeated the peaceloving Dravidians without much effort. What happened then? Social system started degrading. Condition of women and backward classes became worse with the passage of time. Sati, untouchability and all such barbarian customs evolved and lead to the stagnation of society.

Present:

   In India 95% of prominent public representatives, corporate leaders and top bureaucrats are 'men' belonging to forward castes. Why? Why dont we have more representation from members of 'backward castes' and from among 'women'. Backward classes constitute majority of the countries population. Brahmins constitute a very small minority of less than 5% of India's population. But they hold majority of the powerful positions even after 60 years of independance. Why? Why women and backward classes are segregated from power and wealth? Remember the words of the great revolutionary, 'Bhagat Singh' : "Once the british leave, the elite classes will take up their position and continue exploiting the masses."

 

                   Some great reformers emerged from backward communities during the british rule including  Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, Sree Narayana Guru (whom even Mahathma Gandhi considered as a guru) E.V. Ramaswamy Naicker, Jyotiba Phule e.t.c. These powerful leaders tried to reform the society. They tried to uplift their downtrodden brethen through various movements. Ambedkar recommended mass conversion to Buddhism to escape the shackles of caste system. Sree Narayana Guru gave the slogan "One caste, one religion, one god for man". Many of the social reform movements which occurred at the same time as our freedom movement saw success mainly in South India. In North India all such movements were crushed by the landlord class. Today the states which can boast of least caste based and gender based discrimination are Kerala and Andra Pradesh.

 What is happening in other Indian states?

Atrocities against backward classes (Source: Wikipedia)

Rajasthan

In Rajasthan, between the years 1999 and 2002, crimes against Dalits average at about 5024 a year, with 46 killings and 138 cases of rape. In January 2007, a Jat girl was thrown into a canal near the border with Haryana for marrying a Dalit boy, although she swam to shore and was rescued by strangers.

 

Bihar

Ranvir Sena is an caste-supremacist fringe paramilitary group based in Bihar. The group is based amongst the forward-caste landlord, and carries out actions against the outlawed naxals in rural areas. It has committed violent acts against Dalits and other members of the scheduled caste community in an effort to scuttle reform movements aimed at their emancipation.

 

Punjab

On the evening of January 5, 2006 Bant Singh, a poor Sikh Dalit, was attacked by unknown assailants. His injuries necessitated medical amputation. He alleges that this was in retaliation for actively working to secure justice for his daughter, who was gang raped by upper caste members of his village in Punjab five years earlier.

A 55-year-old Dalit Sikh woman, Sawinder Kaur has been tortured, stripped and tied to a tree in Ram Duali village of Punjab because her nephew eloped with a girl from the same community. The police arrested four persons for allegedly committing the crime on 9 September 2007.

In January, 1999 four members of the village panchayat of Bhungar Khera village in Abohar paraded a handicapped Dalit woman naked through the village. No action was taken by the police, despite local Dalit protests. It was only on July 20 that the four pancha yat members were arrested, after the State Home Department was compelled to order an inquiry into the incident.

In Amritsar, a Sikh mother of four children, Gurmeet Kaur was allegedly paraded naked by a father and son duo at the bus station of Jhamaka village falling under Chabhal police station on Sunday.

A Dalit Sikh woman, Sukhwinder Kaur of Sumel Kheri village was molested and beaten up by an octroi contractor of Malaudh when she resisted his attempt to sexually exploit her.

 

Maharashtra

On September 29, 2006, four members of the Bhotmange family belonging to the DalitBhandara district of Maharashtra. The women of the family, Surekha and Priyanka, were paraded naked in public, then allegedly gang-raped before being murdered. 

 

 

 

^{Atrocities against women (Source: Wikipedia)}

Dowry

A 1997 report claimed that at least 5,000 women die each year because of dowry deaths, and at least a dozen die each day in 'kitchen fires' thought to be intentional. The term for this is "bride burning" and is criticized within India itself. Amongst the urban educated, such dowry abuse has reduced considerably.

Child marriage

Child marriage has been traditionally prevalent in India and continues to this day. Historically, young girls would live with their parents till they reached puberty. In the past, the child widows were condemned to a life of great agony, shaving heads, living in isolation, and shunned by the society. Although child marriage was outlawed in 1860, it is still a common practice.

According to UNICEF's "State of the World's Children-2009" report, 47% of India's women aged 20'24 were married before the legal age of 18, with 56% in rural areas. The report also showed that 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India.

Female infanticides and sex selective abortions

India has a highly masculine sex ratio, the chief reason being that many women die before reaching adulthood. Tribal societies in India have a less masculine sex ratio than all other caste groups. This, in spite of the fact that tribal communities have far lower levels of income, literacy and health facilities. It is therefore suggested by many experts, that the highly masculine sex ratio in India can be attributed to female infanticides and sex-selective abortions.

All medical tests that can be used to determine the sex of the child have been banned in India, due to incidents of these tests being used to get rid of unwanted female children before birth. Female infanticide (killing of girl infants) is still prevalent in some rural areas. The abuse of the dowry tradition has been one of the main reasons for sex-selective abortions and female infanticides in India.

Domestic violence

The incidents of domestic violence are higher among the lower Socio-Economic Classes (SECs) The Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act, 2005 came into force on October 26, 2006.

Trafficking

The Immoral Traffic (Prevention) Act was passed in 1956. However many cases of trafficking of young girls and women have been reported. These women are either forced into prostitution, domestic work or child labor.

Other concerns

Health

The average female life expectancy today in India is low compared to many countries, but it has shown gradual improvement over the years. In many families, especially rural ones, the girls and women face nutritional discrimination within the family, and are anaemic and malnourished.

The maternal mortality in India is the second highest in the world. Only 42% of births in the country are supervised by health professionals. Most women deliver with help from women in the family who often lack the skills and resources to save the mother's life if it is in danger. According to UNDP Human Development Report (1997), 88% of pregnant women (age 15-49) were found to be suffering from anemia.

Family planning

The average woman in rural areas of India has little or no control over her reproductivity. Women, particularly women in rural areas, do not have access to safe and self-controlled methods of contraception..

 

 

Year	Crime against SCs	Crime against STs
1997	27,944	4,644
1998	25,638	4,276
1999	25,093	4,450
2000	23,742	3,959
2001	25,516	4,098
Total:	127,933	21,426
Average:	25,587	4,285

  Edited by Xinit - 14 years ago

@ Xinit

    Yes I know that there is much discrimination in Pakistan and Bangladesh. So what? The post is on discrimination in our country! Caste discrimination exists between Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and all other communities. Here the criticism is not against any religion. It's about 'CASTE' discrimination!! You are blinded by hatred against certain communities, that's why such BS responses.

        Keralites kill each other based on 'caste'?!!😆 😆  First get you facts right about India man, then go study about foreign countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh!😆

        In Kerala, there is no caste based discrimination or atrocities today. Mainly because the backward classes are very well organised and powerful unlike in many other states. It's dumb to say that states like Kerala and Andra Pradesh are similar to Maharashtra, Bihar, Rajasthan, Punjab e.t.c. while coming to caste discrimination.
 The charts I posted are from 'National Crime Records Bureau'. You are saying it is BS?!😆 Stop talking rubbish mister, get out of your house and go learn more about India, then comeback and share with me your changed views. India of the affluent ones is entirely different from real India Xinit. Like Gandhi ji did, go to the villages and you will know. Nothing much has changed with regard to caste and gender bias in backward regions of our country since independence.

 


 

Edited by pogo - 14 years ago