Kurbaan - Speaking For Moderate Islam? - Page 6

Originally posted by: lakshmim_84

Aisha, so what abt those jews who were forced to accept islam by Prophet or had to accept death. The incident is given in detail in Quran -  there it is said that the jewish men were killed cos they didn't accept islam.
Also what abt the verses which sanctions rape of women after their lands are conquered

Originally posted by: souro

What is there not to understand??

You said that everything and everybody is born muslim and later on choose to follow some other religion. According to you since islam means 'Submission to God' and everything and everybody submit to god just because they are what they are, so all are born muslim. (Remember the logic, convoluted as it is, is yours not mine)

What essentially comes out from your logic is that you're giving more importance to the meaning of the name of the religion.

In that case if I start a religion and name it 'Baby' then I can claim that everyone who were born or will be born belong to my religion and later on may move on to some other religion.

Originally posted by: DM01

That's all fine and dandy, but you're forgetting that Sharia isn't just based upon the Quran, infact most of Islam is based upon the Hadiths, there are things not mentioned in the Quran which are a core part of Islamic belief such as the five pillars of Islam, the Quran also doesn't tell you when to bow and prostrate, it doesn' tell you how many Rak'aat to pray for each salah, it doesn't tell you what to say in each position, it doesn't tell you how much zakat to pay.

 

Most of Islam is based on the Quran. The Hadiths are the details because those are narrations of the Prophet's life and what he did in day-to-day life. The five pillars ARE mentioned in the Quran. In Chapter 23. And Zakat and how much you should pay is ALSO mentioned in the Quran in the Chapter 2.  The details of prayer however are found in Hadith this is true.

The Quran also tells Muslims to follow Muhammad's example, and without the Hadiths we have no way of knowing Muhammad.  So let's see what Muhammad had to say about apostacy.

It was said of Muhammed that he was the Walking Quran. If any hadith comes into conflict with the Quran then we know that it cannot be accurate because the Quran is seen by Muslim's to be God's Word. Nothing is greater than that.

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Context - During the Battle of Uhud, when those who were pretending to be Muslim but were really giving information to the Makkans so that they could defeat the Muslims during war, left the Muslims mid-battle and the Muslims almost lost. Read my previous post about apostacy.

Bukhari (84:57) - "Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271)  - "A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Again no context or history mentioned. If you look further into the hadith books you find that these people reverted during times of war and had only become muslim to get inside information. The Prophet's own uncle Abu Talib did not accept Islam and yet the Prophet loved him dearly. There was a woman whose mother was visiting her in Medina who was not Muslim and the Prophet told her to welcome her mother and be good to her. You can't just read hadiths without knowing where they came from.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20060

 

"With regard to the shar'i rulings on apostates, if the apostate does not return to Islam, he must be executed. 

It was narrated that 'Abd-Allaah ibn Mas'ood said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., punishment for murder), a married man or woman who commits adultery, and one who leaves his religion and separates from the jamaa'ah (main body of Muslims)." 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6484; Muslim, 1676 

It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbaas said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, execute him."  

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6922). "

Again CONTEXT. Check the timeline. You'll see I'm right about the battle thing.