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gay marriages shudd b aloowedd?? (Page 10)

Fair-n-luvly IF-Sizzlerz
Fair-n-luvly
Fair-n-luvly

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Posts: 11185

Posted: 30 October 2009 at 8:44am | IP Logged
Originally posted by PhoeniXof_Hades

Originally posted by mahikhan

Oh sorry abt that you are still buddy so how are ya,Labib but since when you became La I THOT YOU WERE LABIBTongueLOL

HugHug
In wrote the "La" to see if you remember the "Bib" - which you did! Terrific! Big smile
LOL i dont forget my friends be it La or bib i remember everyone ever heard the well know lines?
rem l'il m rem l'il e
rem them together n dont forget me
lol i aint asking you to rem me forever just tellin tht i rem LabibSmile
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 8:47am | IP Logged
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Fair-n-luvly IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 8:53am | IP Logged
LOL you dont need to understand,Labib tc:)
*Woh Ajnabee* IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by PhoeniXof_Hades

Originally posted by return_to_hades

I also see how you LOVE men, but only LIKE me.


Which worries me - whether you really are a girl or not. The chance of WA getting omni is way thinner than the chance of RTH being a man. LOL


Wow, never thought the day would come where I'd have to read that. LOL

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baz786

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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 11:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*

Originally posted by PhoeniXof_Hades

Originally posted by return_to_hades

I also see how you LOVE men, but only LIKE me.


Which worries me - whether you really are a girl or not. The chance of WA getting omni is way thinner than the chance of RTH being a man. LOL


Wow, never thought the day would come where I'd have to read that. LOL


At least your femininity is not being questioned like mine. LOL

I think people are too curious for their own good. Heterorthsexual, how hard is that to get? LOL

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baz786

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Posted: 01 November 2009 at 1:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Originally posted by return_to_hades

When it comes to the issue of gay marriage, I choose not to look at California or New England or the all these hot button states.

I have only one thing to say - Iowa. It was a time when Prop 8 was a nationwide circus and was being challenged in court, and all eyes were on California. At the same time somewhere in the heartland, things looked different. It was a conservative state, just a bit west of the Bible belt. It was a conservative senate, conservative  governor and an all conservative judicial bench. There was no liberal gay rights pride propaganda bandwagon demanding change. One fine morning people woke up to find that a ten year old ban on gay marriage had been declared constitutionally illegal by the state supreme court. Gay people can now marry in Iowa.

Of course there was a bit of a scramble to get it undone. But months later in September a poll stated that 92% of Iowans said their lives had not been changed by the decision. In essence its still, good old Iowa, land of corn.

The question asked was ""This class of people asks a simple and direct question: How can a state premised on the constitutional principle of equal protection justify exclusion of a class of Iowans from civil marriage?" 

And the chief justices answer was simple "It can't"

As a lot of us who live in the heartland and love it say, its not about liberalization and changing the world. Everything here is about good old fashioned midwestern sensibilities. Small towns and communities that stick by their fellow people and their values,irrespective of who they are. Maybe thats why the midwest is called the heartland. No media circus about it. Just ordinary people, living ordinary lives.
Actually there is a huge negative to this, when decisions like this are taken without proper discussion or awareness considering only legal standpoint, they do nothing but just create a superficials feeling like something good has been done without anyone actually embracing it.
 
Talking about Iowa, Last year when out at dinner with my client, most of them suggested they would vote for Obama, now they have a lot of reasons to hate Bush, since a lot of them had kids in armed forces, nobody liked democratic principles, but the reason most of them cited was that they didnt want to sound racist, There was a conscious effort made last year, if you dont vote for Obama, you might be a closeted racist. and the state went to Obama. I wont be surprised if the "gay marriage" thing isnt like that too If it is really from their heart nothing like it, but I doubt it.
 
Similarly, In India earlier this year they decriminalized homosexual relationships in the courts, everywhere there was a big backpating, but if you look around, nothing has changed. There is still the mindset about Gays that is illustrated in the movie "Philadelphia". The change has to come from heart, from well thought out thinking. It cant be like ok, a judge ruled, and now we think it is acceptable. especially in a conservative nation like India.
 
The reason I cited both these examples was just Iowa and India are very similar in their religious conservativeness
 
sorry for the detourWink


You raise interesting points. Regarding the recent elections a lot of the usually Republican and fringe territories went to Obama. From working in an industry that is mostly farmers and conservative small towners, it was not just about fear of being labeled racist. While they do not support the 'liberal' principles of the Democrats, they were given the sense that Democrats identified with hometown USA more.

Getting back to the gay marriage question - we have to issues here legal acceptance and social acceptance. To me the focus of the movement for gay marriage rights is solely the legal acceptance. The in your face gay rights movement in California and New York, makes conservatives even more wary of homosexuals. They rally their masses together even more feverishly. They are afraid that gay people are out to change the world they live in and resistance is feverish.

I think the 'nothing has changed' effect is imperative. People fear change. When the Huffington Post surveyed post gay marriage Iowa, 95% people felt nothing had changed. Gay marriage had not affected their lives and their families. It was something they felt they could easily live with. This is the kind of assurance the rest of the country and world needs to allow gay marriage. That it does not have to affect their lives at all. Its not going to lead to a catastrophic change and deconstruction of society as we know it

As for social change, I think it comes with time. You cannot radically change the way people view the world. You cannot expect any human being to drop fundamental moral and religious beliefs that form the core of their views.  Once people know they have nothing to fear, they can open up to more ideas.
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Posted: 01 November 2009 at 1:37am | IP Logged

army.jpg no gays in the military image by joshmustard

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chimuliCHIPPEDCUP

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Posted: 13 November 2009 at 12:55am | IP Logged
Good old fashioned values of the heartland triumph again. Utah, who knew?  Maybe its because Donny Osmond kissed Bruno on DWTS.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111106226.html

Salt Lake OKs gay rights laws with Mormon backing


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Who's Blogging
By JENNIFER DOBNER
The Associated Press
Wednesday, November 11, 2009; 11:36 AM

SALT LAKE CITY -- The Mormon church for the first time has announced its support of gay rights legislation, an endorsement that helped gain unanimous approval for Salt Lake city laws banning discrimination against gays in housing and employment.

The Utah-based church's support ahead of Tuesday night's vote came despite its steadfast opposition to gay marriage, reflected in the high-profile role it played last year in California's Proposition 8 ballot measure that barred such unions.

"The church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage," Michael Otterson, the director of public affairs for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said.

Passage made Salt Lake City the first Utah community to prohibit bias based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Under the two new ordinances, it is illegal to fire someone from their job or evict someone from their residence because they are lesbian, bisexual, gay or transgender.

Utah lawmakers tend to quickly fall in line when the influential church makes a rare foray into legislative politics. So Tuesday's action could have broad effects in this highly conservative state where more than 80 percent of lawmakers and the governor are church members.

"What happened here tonight I do believe is a historic event," said Brandie Balken, director of the gay rights advocacy group Equality Utah. "I think it establishes that we can stand together on common ground that we don't have to agree on everything, but there are lot of things that we can work on and be allies."

But the church has pointed out an inherent dispute it has with gay relationships. Mormonism considers traditional marriages central to God's plan. Gays are welcome in church, but must remain celibate to retain church callings and full membership.

Its strong support for Proposition 8 in California last year drew a sharp reaction from gay rights supporters nationwide, with many protesting outside temples that singled out Mormons as the key culprits in restricting the rights of gay couples.

Since then, however, Utah's gay community has sought to engage church leaders in quiet conversations to help foster better understanding, said Valerie Larabee, executive director of the Utah Pride Center.

"I thought this conversation would never come to be while I was here in Salt Lake City," said Larabee, adding that the discussions have "shifted her perspective of what's possible" and could foreshadow a different relationship between the two sides.

But addressing the council on Tuesday, Otterson said the endorsement is not a shift in the church's position on gay rights and stressed it "remains unequivocally committed to defending the bedrock foundation of marriage between a man and a woman."

Church support for the ordinances is due in part to the way the legislation was drafted to protect those rights. Exceptions in the legislation allow churches to maintain, without penalty, religious principles and religion-based codes of conduct or rules.

"In drafting these ordinances, the city has granted commonsense rights that should be available to everyone, while safeguarding the crucial rights of religious organizations," Otterson said Tuesday.

Previous Utah legislation that sought statewide protections for the gay community did not contain those exceptions.

And although this was the church's first public endorsement of specific legislation, it is not the first time the church has voiced support for some gay rights. In August 2008 the church issued a statement saying it supports gay rights related to hospitalization, medical care, employment, housing or probate as long as they "do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches."

Last year, church leaders were silent on a package of gay rights bills known as the Common Ground Initiative, dooming them from the start, despite the bill having the support of the most popular governor in state history, Jon Huntsman. Huntsman resigned this summer to become U.S. ambassador to China.

His successor, Gov. Gary Herbert, has repeatedly said it shouldn't be illegal to discriminate against someone for being gay.


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