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..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

that ought to solve the famine crisis in some places . What mantra to use to get these saints visit there ?

 
Yagnas bring rains. People are doing less and less yagnas these days, and you only see homas in temples. That's why famines are occurring. If people can convince priests or other sages to come to their places and do yagnas to invoke God Vayu, then there will be rains.


Edited by _LalithaJanaki_ - 26 October 2009 at 9:48am

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..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 9:46am | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

Originally posted by _LalithaJanaki_

I don't understand. What do you mean...explanation?

I mean if MB is fact & not fiction then there must B a scientific explanation for these unusual phenomenon Smile

 
Give me a scientific explanation for this real life incident which happened in my family five years ago.
 
My aunt was beyond the age of having kids, and she wanted a child. Doctors, after doing many tests, declared that she could not have any children because she had passed the age limit.
 
My aunt and uncle did a Putra Kameshti Yagna in their home and kept a strict Vrat for two years. They chanted mantras given to them by a trusted priest at our temple and two years later, my aunt became pregnant. I now have a 2 1/2 year old nephew.
 
The power of mantras are beyond scientific explanations. You said in one of your previous posts that fact is what you see and experience in you life. Well, I saw the fruit of my aunt and uncle's tapasya, and I experienced the power of mantras not only in this one instance, but many times in my life. The doctors themselves were amazed at the birth of my nephew, whom they deemed impossible to be born.
 
There was another time when my dad narrowly missed being in a terrible car accident because he was chanting "Om Namah Shivaya" over and over while he was driving.
 
One of my other uncles, many years ago, had died of a heart atack. Not one doctor, but many doctors did numerous tests before proclaiming him dead. They were getting ready to send him to the funeral home when he awoke, as if coming out of a trance. My uncle told everyone that a voice in his head had told him that it was not yet time for him to die, and that he had many more duties to perform before he was to die. He was a great Shiva Bhakt and went to Sri Shailam every summer. He did many tapasyas to Lord Shiva and chanted the various Shiva Naams not once, but thousands of times.
 
So many incidents in my family's life happened that explanations for it are beyond logic or scientific explanations. One of my dad's uncles, who was a gifted astrologer, had predicted the day before he was to die when he would die, the exact time and place of his own death. The next day, his family found him dead the exact way he had predicted and the doctor told everyone that the death was natural...no suicide, no murder, no heart atack, etc. 
 
Likewise, the events in the Mahabharat (which you must remember is also a scripture, so obviously the divine doings of Lord Krishna would be evident in many scenes) are also beyond scientific explanations. Science cannot explain everything.

_Angie_

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 10:11am | IP Logged
Interesting ! Faith has been known to do wonders. Human mind has gr8 powers that R litl understood .  I think there must B some science behind the mantras & yagnas too waiting to B re- discovered. Things like remote viewing, manifestations thru mind power R being increasingly studied  again.

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casper2..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 11:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Interesting ! Faith has been known to do wonders. Human mind has gr8 powers that R litl understood .  I think there must B some science behind the mantras & yagnas too waiting to B re- discovered. Things like remote viewing, manifestations thru mind power R being increasingly studied  again.
 
Hmm, maybe, who knows? Maybe in the future, we will find that mantras can also be a form of science.Big smile After all, science is evolving all the time.

chal_phek_mat

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 12:06pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by _LalithaJanaki_

Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Coming to the debate, If you were to assume, Kauravas won the war in Mahabharata, Duryodhan and Karna would have been heroes instead of Arjun and Krishna. Actually if you were to ignore that Krishna was a incarnation of Lord Vishnu and Pandavas won and if you compare the character of Krishna to that of Karna. Karna comes out better.  Talking about ethics etc. There were equal number of unethical actions against the Kaurvas as much as the Kaurvas committed. But still the Kauravas are villified. Huge lesson that comes out of Mahabharata is the winner ends up writing the history and everything you do gets justified by some means or other. So concentrate on winning the battle,
 
No one "won" the way, regardless of what you think.
All the Kauravas were dead at the end of the day, The Pandavas lived, that is victory
 
The Kauravas did not "win" because they were on the side of Adharma (who in their right 'heroic' mind tries to disrobe a menstruating woman? And who sticks up for them?),
If someone behaves like a drunkard elephant, they get treated like a drunkard elephant. What Draupadi inflicted on the Kauravas pretty much made her a fair game.
 
and the Pandavas did not "win" because they lost every one of their relatives, and regardless of getting the throne, too much blood on both sides had been shed. How can that be called winning?
Well they killed their relatives, they did not lose themLOL, pretty much all of them by deceit 
The point of the Kurukshetra War was not to determine who "won", but that the evil ones died.
Again evil is decided by who won, The Pandavas and Krishna played in the same game of deceit, now that is not dharma
There were "not so innocent" warriors on the Pandavas' side too, like Dhristadyumna and Drupada along with others. Arjun, Krishna etcWink, Arjun who ended up killing someone who was not in a position to fight . Krishna urging him on
 
Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagawad Gita that those who were paapis would be annihalated, and that other innocents, like Abhimanyu, Ghatotkacha, and Draupadi's five sons, would die as well.
 
 
 
Whether the Pandavas were heroes or not, Duryodhana and Karna definitely were not. Krishna is the biggest Hero of Mahabharat, even if you leave aside the fact that he is the avatar of Lord Vishnu.
Yep the hero who created all sorts of decietful ways to get the enemy killed
 
As for comparing Karna and Krishna....Karna came up with the idea of Dushashana disrobing Draupadi despite knowing it was her "time of month" and Krishna provided her with the endless amount of sari and saved her honor. Who's the hero? See previous notes, If you are willing to dish, better be ready to accept, dont hide behind your womanhood.
I am not denying that Karna was a great daanveer and an overall much better character than the Kauravas, but his telling Dushadhana to disrobe Draupadi greatly decreased his "hero-ness" in my eyes. Only a woman can understand the pain and humiliation Draupadi went through when she, being merely draped in a menstruation-caused soiled cloth, was dragged to the sabha where half the men looked at her with lusty eyes and her husbands offered no protection, as well as the weakling of a King himself.
And what does that make her husbandsWink
 
Leave aside the fact that she married five men. How anyone can call Karna a hero over Krishna after what he nearly caused to Draupadi surprises me.Confused
 Well Draupadi was the one who insulted him on his race, his jaati all along, how can one call someone to be a woman of any standard who indulges in such blatant racism and inhuman standard
You interpreted the Gita in a totally wrong way, but if that's how you interpreted it, then fine. But for me, the main message of the war is that Where there is Dharma, there is God, and where there is God, there is Victory. Where there is no Dharma, or if someone (like Karna, Bhishma, and Dronacharya) supports Adharma, God will never be on that side regardless of the number of good deeds he did previously, because supporting Adharma erases the good deeds we do.
 
See you want to debate mythology and scriptures and want also dont want to debate it, if you want to debate,leave aside their "holy grail" status, If you want to follow it blindly then dont bring them into a debate, b'cos for me actions are more important than words, and the actions were as petty as those of the Kauravas. So ......
 
The ultimate message of Gita is to support God, not a particular side. Support God, Believe in God, and Surrender to God, and victory will be on your side, regardless of the strength or prowess of the other side. The only duty every one has is duty towards God.
 
And if God tells you to kill someone who is without a weapon, you kill?
 
Will post some examples from the Gita explaining a person's duty.
Do it if you are willing to leave aside the Holy grail status and discuss it as any other words from someone wise and be willing to debate it without bringing GOD into the discussionWink
Jai Shree Krishna!

return_to_hades

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

now for some of the things I find real confusing in MB. eg Draupadis endless saree, birth of pandavas thru diffr Gods, birth of a 100 kauravas,draupadis pot of food that did not empty till she herself ate out of it  , karna born with kavach kundal [:S] Any explantn here ?


Sunny there are various ways to perceive these supernatural phenomenon that seem logically unfeasible in mythology and scripture. Some people believe that these stories are true facts. They believe that some of these characters were truly divine and could perform feats. The explanation for not seeing these miracles in today's times are attributed to Kalyug (Hindu philosophy) or the world being in sin (Western monotheist philosophy) or other explanations.

 

Now not all religious adherents are hard and fast believers. Many are rationalists who feel that supernatural phenomenon is logically not possible. They try to explain away the phenomenon in various ways.

 

One perception is that these are embellished histories. When Homer listed the account of the Trojan war, he embellished it with the magic of Gods and supernatural feats. Ptolemy and other historians embellished Alexander the Great a real man to be the son of Zeus and created myths around his heroics. When Octavius defeated Cleopatra at the battle of Actium, historians have created accounts of Roman Gods fighting by him to defeat Egyptians and their Gods, establishing Roman superiority. So one school of thought is that the historians creating these accounts of Christ, or Rama or Krishna, embellished the stories to make them more glorious.

 

Another theory is lost technology. For example virgin birth is a logically feasible through artificial insemination methods. Many modern missiles/weapons tend to replicate affects of various astras and weapons. It appears that many human technologies once possible were lost. For example archeologists still debate on how the stones were moved and stacked to build pyramids, or even Stonehenge. It seems impossible that some of these ancient civilizations could build these. Could they have had advanced technology. There are also accounts of the Greek doctor Asclepias and other Indian surgeons etc describing successful organ transplants, restorative surgery etc, which has amazed modern doctors. So perhaps most supernatural phenomenon could be attributed to a technology we have lost.

 

The last perception is symbolism. We are not to take every event and act literally. Many are meant to be metaphorical or symbolic of concepts and thoughts. It depends on how each person interprets the miracle. Virgin birth could be symbolic to the socio-emotional purity of a person rather than biological virginity. Similarly Draupadi's saree could be symbolic to the fact that misdeeds of men should not taint a woman's honor.

 

For non believers of God or a religion none of these are true unless proven by real hard concrete facts. And that is indeed a rational stance to take. But ethical analysis is not the realm of faith, belief or religion. All these characters and stories can be analyzed using moral theory and social ethics. Personally for me I'm a spiritual Hindu rather than a religious Hindu. I've always been more inclined towards the Vedanta science and philosophy of studying the universe rather than the scriptures and doctrines. It's the difference between Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga. Both are acceptable means to seek the truth. To me the scriptures are metaphorical parables of social moral knowledge.


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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 2:14pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Originally posted by _LalithaJanaki_

Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Coming to the debate, If you were to assume, Kauravas won the war in Mahabharata, Duryodhan and Karna would have been heroes instead of Arjun and Krishna. Actually if you were to ignore that Krishna was a incarnation of Lord Vishnu and Pandavas won and if you compare the character of Krishna to that of Karna. Karna comes out better.  Talking about ethics etc. There were equal number of unethical actions against the Kaurvas as much as the Kaurvas committed. But still the Kauravas are villified. Huge lesson that comes out of Mahabharata is the winner ends up writing the history and everything you do gets justified by some means or other. So concentrate on winning the battle,
 
No one "won" the way, regardless of what you think.
All the Kauravas were dead at the end of the day, The Pandavas lived, that is victory
 
The Kauravas did not "win" because they were on the side of Adharma (who in their right 'heroic' mind tries to disrobe a menstruating woman? And who sticks up for them?),
If someone behaves like a drunkard elephant, they get treated like a drunkard elephant. What Draupadi inflicted on the Kauravas pretty much made her a fair game.
 
and the Pandavas did not "win" because they lost every one of their relatives, and regardless of getting the throne, too much blood on both sides had been shed. How can that be called winning?
Well they killed their relatives, they did not lose themLOL, pretty much all of them by deceit 
The point of the Kurukshetra War was not to determine who "won", but that the evil ones died.
Again evil is decided by who won, The Pandavas and Krishna played in the same game of deceit, now that is not dharma
There were "not so innocent" warriors on the Pandavas' side too, like Dhristadyumna and Drupada along with others. Arjun, Krishna etcWink, Arjun who ended up killing someone who was not in a position to fight . Krishna urging him on
 
Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagawad Gita that those who were paapis would be annihalated, and that other innocents, like Abhimanyu, Ghatotkacha, and Draupadi's five sons, would die as well.
 
 
 
Whether the Pandavas were heroes or not, Duryodhana and Karna definitely were not. Krishna is the biggest Hero of Mahabharat, even if you leave aside the fact that he is the avatar of Lord Vishnu.
Yep the hero who created all sorts of decietful ways to get the enemy killed
 
As for comparing Karna and Krishna....Karna came up with the idea of Dushashana disrobing Draupadi despite knowing it was her "time of month" and Krishna provided her with the endless amount of sari and saved her honor. Who's the hero? See previous notes, If you are willing to dish, better be ready to accept, dont hide behind your womanhood.
I am not denying that Karna was a great daanveer and an overall much better character than the Kauravas, but his telling Dushadhana to disrobe Draupadi greatly decreased his "hero-ness" in my eyes. Only a woman can understand the pain and humiliation Draupadi went through when she, being merely draped in a menstruation-caused soiled cloth, was dragged to the sabha where half the men looked at her with lusty eyes and her husbands offered no protection, as well as the weakling of a King himself.
And what does that make her husbandsWink
 
Leave aside the fact that she married five men. How anyone can call Karna a hero over Krishna after what he nearly caused to Draupadi surprises me.Confused
 Well Draupadi was the one who insulted him on his race, his jaati all along, how can one call someone to be a woman of any standard who indulges in such blatant racism and inhuman standard
You interpreted the Gita in a totally wrong way, but if that's how you interpreted it, then fine. But for me, the main message of the war is that Where there is Dharma, there is God, and where there is God, there is Victory. Where there is no Dharma, or if someone (like Karna, Bhishma, and Dronacharya) supports Adharma, God will never be on that side regardless of the number of good deeds he did previously, because supporting Adharma erases the good deeds we do.
 
See you want to debate mythology and scriptures and want also dont want to debate it, if you want to debate,leave aside their "holy grail" status, If you want to follow it blindly then dont bring them into a debate, b'cos for me actions are more important than words, and the actions were as petty as those of the Kauravas. So ......
 
The ultimate message of Gita is to support God, not a particular side. Support God, Believe in God, and Surrender to God, and victory will be on your side, regardless of the strength or prowess of the other side. The only duty every one has is duty towards God.
 
And if God tells you to kill someone who is without a weapon, you kill?
 
Will post some examples from the Gita explaining a person's duty.
Do it if you are willing to leave aside the Holy grail status and discuss it as any other words from someone wise and be willing to debate it without bringing GOD into the discussionWink
Jai Shree Krishna!
 
You cannot debate mythos without bringing God into it, as God is the main character.LOL Remember, these mythos are also scriptures of a religion, so while debating the actions/ethics of characters will happen, debating it without bringing God into it is impossible and illogical.Wink That was another point of this thread: to discuss God here in order to stop bringing God into other debate threads which has been happening a lot lately. So if you want to debate something without God in it, then this is the wrong thread for you to be in.LOL
 
Just an offhand question: would you support people who rape or publicly disrobe racists (men or women), since the racists "deserve" it?

Summer3

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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 9:39pm | IP Logged
Here is a nice pic of Radha and Krishna.

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