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Mythology and Scriptures Debate Thread (Page 5)

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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

It wasnt me ! I m not very fond of jalebis .
He he what do you enjoy then? Myshore pak, halwa, laddu, chocolate cakes ?LOL 
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by DM01

Ramayana and Mahabharata have evolved over a course of centuries.  Both epics were much shorter in its initial stages.  Linguistic and statistical research have manage to identity the different layers in the texts, and have assigned a time period in which they were interpolated into the epics.

Tradition teaches us that Ramayana was authored by Valkmiki, and Mahabharata was authored by Vyasa, however research has revealed that both texts were written by many authors in different time periods over course of centuries.

The question of myth or fact is extremely hard to answer, while the core story of both epics are very archaic, and may indeed have been based on a real event or at least inspired by a real event, however due to many centuries of interpolations, it is very difficult to separate fact from myth.

Ramayana and Mahabharata is much more than just a tale now, both epics include a range of  diverse topics such as, moral/ethics, philosophy, politics, social mores, religion, arts, and has influenced many cultures outside of India, especially South-East Asia.
Yes if we believe it is true it really becomes true and if we believe otherwise then it remains a fable too. I agree that the lessons behind the Ramayana and Mahabharatha are more important.
The story of Eklavya too proves what can be achieved through faith.
 

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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 1:07pm | IP Logged
Not too big of a fan of Ramayana, too preachy and too theoretical, cant relate to it. I am much more a realist to accept it. Mahabharata is a different story, it is more real life, has all the everything that we live with in today's age. It is like as mentioned in "You've got mail" about Godfather movie, every situation you have in your life you can find something that you can relate to. Ditto with Mahabharata. The very fact that someone could write something so valid even after 2000+ years is amazing 
 
Coming to the debate, If you were to assume, Kauravas won the war in Mahabharata, Duryodhan and Karna would have been heroes instead of Arjun and Krishna. Actually if you were to ignore that Krishna was a incarnation of Lord Vishnu and Pandavas won and if you compare the character of Krishna to that of Karna. Karna comes out better.  Talking about ethics etc. There were equal number of unethical actions against the Kaurvas as much as the Kaurvas committed. But still the Kauravas are villified. Huge lesson that comes out of Mahabharata is the winner ends up writing the history and everything you do gets justified by some means or other. So concentrate on winning the battle,
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 3:17pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by crazy_sunny

are we to now have a debate if Ramayan is bases on facts or fiction?


To those who believe and have faith these stories are historical facts, and to others who do not they are mere stories.  I think when you take these mythological tales  like Ramayana or Mahabharata or others, whether it is a fact or fiction is an irrelevant question. What is more important is what lessons can we learn from them. Are these tales applicable in our lives in some manner, what do they show about the character of humans.

Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia - they are all fictitious novels too. However, one cannot deny that they represent the battle between good and evil. The conflicts and choices faced by human. They can be morally and philosophically debated, and the actions of these characters can be analyzed.

To some people comparing these works to religious scripture is blasphemy. But the truth of the matter is that some authors intend to put their religious beliefs into these books too. For example C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian, and he intended the character of Aslan to be modeled around Christ. Aslan sacrifices himself and is resurrected.

So I think the debate is not if these stories are true or not, but what can we learn from them. Its about analyzing characters in these myths and their actions.

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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by _LalithaJanaki_

Originally posted by Believe

I think EKta can make better Ramayan....Wink
 
Oh God! ROFL


I think if anyone can remake these epics with true justice is Peter Jackson. I was really impressed with the way he put Lord of the Rings into a movie. Unlike Harry Potter movies which left the characters and plots being underdeveloped and meaningless - the Lord of the Rings movies do best justice to the character.

Ever since I saw LOTR I have been fantasizing of having an Epic movie series based on the Mahabharata hit the theaters. You know the scene where Arwen has the river rise into a stampede and wash away the ring wraiths, imagine how awesome it would be if Varunastra etc could be portrayed with such CGI effects. It would be mindblowing.

I've actually been planning my starcast too Viggo Mortensen as Yudhishter, Eric Bana as Bheema, Orlando Bloom as Arjuna, Diego Luna as Nakula and Sahdeva, Hale Berry as Draupadi, Tom Welling as Abhimanyu, Ian McKellen as Bheeshma, Dwayne Johnson as Duryodhan and so on and so forth.

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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Coming to the debate, If you were to assume, Kauravas won the war in Mahabharata, Duryodhan and Karna would have been heroes instead of Arjun and Krishna. Actually if you were to ignore that Krishna was a incarnation of Lord Vishnu and Pandavas won and if you compare the character of Krishna to that of Karna. Karna comes out better.  Talking about ethics etc. There were equal number of unethical actions against the Kaurvas as much as the Kaurvas committed. But still the Kauravas are villified. Huge lesson that comes out of Mahabharata is the winner ends up writing the history and everything you do gets justified by some means or other. So concentrate on winning the battle,
 
No one "won" the way, regardless of what you think. The Kauravas did not "win" because they were on the side of Adharma (who in their right 'heroic' mind tries to disrobe a menstruating woman? And who sticks up for them?), and the Pandavas did not "win" because they lost every one of their relatives, and regardless of getting the throne, too much blood on both sides had been shed. How can that be called winning?
 
The point of the Kurukshetra War was not to determine who "won", but that the evil ones died. There were "not so innocent" warriors on the Pandavas' side too, like Dhristadyumna and Drupada along with others. Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagawad Gita that those who were paapis would be annihalated, and that other innocents, like Abhimanyu, Ghatotkacha, and Draupadi's five sons, would die as well.
 
Whether the Pandavas were heroes or not, Duryodhana and Karna definitely were not. Krishna is the biggest Hero of Mahabharat, even if you leave aside the fact that he is the avatar of Lord Vishnu. As for comparing Karna and Krishna....Karna came up with the idea of Dushashana disrobing Draupadi despite knowing it was her "time of month" and Krishna provided her with the endless amount of sari and saved her honor. Who's the hero?
I am not denying that Karna was a great daanveer and an overall much better character than the Kauravas, but his telling Dushadhana to disrobe Draupadi greatly decreased his "hero-ness" in my eyes. Only a woman can understand the pain and humiliation Draupadi went through when she, being merely draped in a menstruation-caused soiled cloth, was dragged to the sabha where half the men looked at her with lusty eyes and her husbands offered no protection, as well as the weakling of a King himself. Leave aside the fact that she married five men. How anyone can call Karna a hero over Krishna after what he nearly caused to Draupadi surprises me.Confused
 
You interpreted the Gita in a totally wrong way, but if that's how you interpreted it, then fine. But for me, the main message of the war is that Where there is Dharma, there is God, and where there is God, there is Victory. Where there is no Dharma, or if someone (like Karna, Bhishma, and Dronacharya) supports Adharma, God will never be on that side regardless of the number of good deeds he did previously, because supporting Adharma erases the good deeds we do.
 
The ultimate message of Gita is to support God, not a particular side. Support God, Believe in God, and Surrender to God, and victory will be on your side, regardless of the strength or prowess of the other side. The only duty every one has is duty towards God.
 
Will post some examples from the Gita explaining a person's duty.
 
Jai Shree Krishna!
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 3:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by crazy_sunny

are we to now have a debate if Ramayan is bases on facts or fiction?


To those who believe and have faith these stories are historical facts, and to others who do not they are mere stories.  I think when you take these mythological tales  like Ramayana or Mahabharata or others, whether it is a fact or fiction is an irrelevant question. What is more important is what lessons can we learn from them. Are these tales applicable in our lives in some manner, what do they show about the character of humans.

Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia - they are all fictitious novels too. However, one cannot deny that they represent the battle between good and evil. The conflicts and choices faced by human. They can be morally and philosophically debated, and the actions of these characters can be analyzed.

To some people comparing these works to religious scripture is blasphemy. But the truth of the matter is that some authors intend to put their religious beliefs into these books too. For example C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian, and he intended the character of Aslan to be modeled around Christ. Aslan sacrifices himself and is resurrected.

So I think the debate is not if these stories are true or not, but what can we learn from them. Its about analyzing characters in these myths and their actions.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself!Clap
 
I don't think comparing HP and LotR, Narnia to scriptures is blasphemy, because God is not being disrespected. You are right that these epics too have lots of morals which can be derived and debatable characters.
 
Is it just me, or can others see the connection between HP's Snape and MB's Bhishma? Don't know.....but both gave up their lives fighting for what they felt was right.
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by _LalithaJanaki_

Originally posted by Believe

I think EKta can make better Ramayan....Wink
 
Oh God! ROFL


I think if anyone can remake these epics with true justice is Peter Jackson. I was really impressed with the way he put Lord of the Rings into a movie. Unlike Harry Potter movies which left the characters and plots being underdeveloped and meaningless - the Lord of the Rings movies do best justice to the character.

Ever since I saw LOTR I have been fantasizing of having an Epic movie series based on the Mahabharata hit the theaters. You know the scene where Arwen has the river rise into a stampede and wash away the ring wraiths, imagine how awesome it would be if Varunastra etc could be portrayed with such CGI effects. It would be mindblowing.

I've actually been planning my starcast too Viggo Mortensen as Yudhishter, Eric Bana as Bheema, Orlando Bloom as Arjuna, Diego Luna as Nakula and Sahdeva, Hale Berry as Draupadi, Tom Welling as Abhimanyu, Ian McKellen as Bheeshma, Dwayne Johnson as Duryodhan and so on and so forth.
 
Not a bad idea. I'd def watch a Peter Jackson directed MB movie.Big smile
 
Have you seen BRC's Mahabharat? Yeah, I know it's old compared to the new technology of today, but it's direction I feel was perfect for the 1980s. No one can portray Lord Krishna better than Nitish Bharadwaj.

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