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Should america forget the 9/11??? (Page 10)

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3


The way you are taking WA's post is totally out of context here given the nature of debate.  Blaming America and stereotyping Americans to defend hostility a particular community harbors towards America is not the same as getting a bit suspicious when I come across a black person - especially when I am walking alone in the night in downtown area.  You can't compare these two instances. 


Its similar if in this context -

Why are you afraid of a black man. Because you have heard stories, or seen something stating black men are dangerous. Even people who have never met a 'dangerous' black man will harbor fear.

Similarly a Muslim person dislikes Americans. He never personally met a 'bad' American. In fact Americans he knows are nice to him. But his friends and relatives tell him horror stories. He starts fearing that Americans are prejudiced against Muslim.

Both instances are very common examples of fear prejudice. Most of us experiences similar prejudices, anxieties and fears. Sometimes we may say or do something impolite out of it. But in nature we are good people, just stumbling our way through the world trying to make sense of right and wrong.

Its different in the context -

Now if I as someone afraid of black people justified racism, felt that businesses should not hire blacks, avoided all black people and condone violence against blacks - then that is wrong.

Similarly if Muslims use the fear of Americans to condone violence, harm or serious discrimination against Americans then it is wrong.

These are extreme cases and not instances of everyday prejudice but something that is ethically wrong. An American who condones mistreatment of Blacks, Hispanics or Muslims due to race or religion is wrong. Similarly if a Muslim or any other culture or person harbors such feelings against America that they support violence then its wrong.

Since WA was in response to my post before, I assumed she had made this distinction I made in my post.

Pfft Its all Hearsay now.

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Beyond_the_Veil

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Gauri_3

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
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return_to_hades

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Ajnu my first name is originally Hebrew. The Russian Tsarina or Czarina is the Cyrillic derivative of it. So people who know Hebrew usually get thrown off because they are like you are not Jewish, how come you have an Old Hebrew word as your name.


Oh, wow, your name is Sarina, then. I thought perhaps this was an online forum name. Yes, it is quite interesting how your name originates from Hebrew. You sure you're not a Jew? Just kidding. LOL


Well I'm half GoodJew (Gujju).

When I was in India everyone thought my name was Zarina.

Sometimes I think I should be a spy. I can successfully pretend to be Hindu, Muslim, Catholic and Jew. I can be Subcontinental, Middle Eastern or Latino. I can pretend to be 16 to 30. I can even pretend to be a boy. Gosh! the CIA should hire me.

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Beyond_the_Veil

*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by *Woh Ajnabee*



Well, they may not be right or wrong in doing it, they have every reason to, but it still is a discrimination of sorts. You're still basing that very judgment on the pure basis of an origin of a name or skin color. Perhaps its only to allocate scarce resources and to create a more efficient safety system, but in the end, you can't deny that its not discrimination. Granted they have valid reasons, that even I support, because it logically makes sense, but that does not change the fact that your traveling experience will be different based upon who you are.

No, I still won't call it discrimination given the nation's security is at risk here.  If they wanted to discriminate, they could have deported all muslims out.  They never did that.

They cannot do that, di, not based upon religion. How do you judge someone's religion? You can deport people based upon nationality, but not religion. There are Muslims who are US Citizens, who have rights, who have not done anything wrong. There are Muslims who are not from the Indian Subcontinent or from the Middle East or from any country that would raise eyebrows in these times. There are such things as Pakistani Christians and Spanish Muslims. You cannot define Muslims based upon a few countries.

9/11 certainly changed not only how the world travels, but I think it changed the very face of the planet. It changed how the common person thinks or behaves in certain situations. In the end, we all suck it up and take it as common procedure, knowing that it is for our safety when we are traveling. Having said that, the discrimination that I'm referring to, goes beyond the airport security lines, and into the minds of the common folks, and unfortunately that is something that is something we cannot change because of circumstances.

Ajnu, folks can change those very things if they refuse to unite in the name of religion rather than uniting for the cause.  If islam is the tool used by the terrorists to bring muslims down then only muslims can tackle this scenario by standing up against the goons and defending islam rather than bad-mouthing America and defending the goons.  No other community is brainwashed to the extent we see with muslim community because most people support the cause not the religion.  You know it, I know and we both know that nothing much is done to change that mindset of muslims.  I still hear majority of them getting defensive.

I cannot stand up for all of the Muslim world. I support US safety precautions, I condemn those who are involved in acts of terrorism, I sympatheize with those who have lost loved ones due to these immoral and cruel acts. And that is all that I can do, and like me, that is all that any Muslim living in America can do. It is not about getting defensive, or taking these comments personally, it is about the very fact that I can only change the way I think, and hope for the best. The beliefs and acts of those around the world who perhaps claim to share a similar belief does not lie on one person's shoulder.

Also, it is often overlooked that Muslims living in countries where this terrorism breeds, face similar acts of terrorism, lose loved ones the same way, and have no way of stopping it. The violence and cruelty exists over there too. If they cannot get themselves away from that, what makes anyone think they can help the rest of the world?



Edited by *Woh Ajnabee* - 10 September 2009 at 10:36pm

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Beyond_the_VeilFair-n-luvly

return_to_hades

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by return_to_hades



Its similar if in this context -

Why are you afraid of a black man. Because you have heard stories, or seen something stating black men are dangerous. Even people who have never met a 'dangerous' black man will harbor fear.

Similarly a Muslim person dislikes Americans. He never personally met a 'bad' American. In fact Americans he knows are nice to him. But his friends and relatives tell him horror stories. He starts fearing that Americans are prejudiced against Muslim.

Both instances are very common examples of fear prejudice. Most of us experiences similar prejudices, anxieties and fears. Sometimes we may say or do something impolite out of it. But in nature we are good people, just stumbling our way through the world trying to make sense of right and wrong...........




Nope, it is NOT the same.  I take precautions to stay away from ghettos when travelling alone or out in the dark.  You don't see the muslim person who is hearing horror stories about America staying away from America.  If America is bad then why continue to live there and badmouth the country simultaneously?  If Islam is above every single thing - be it patriotism, friendship, relationship - then why not migrate to the so called islamic nations and live in peace there?

I see nothing common in me getting scared of a black person and avoiding him under certain circumstances and a brainwashed muslim person bad mouthing America while living in America.

Darn it girl - you forced me to log in againLOL




Well I dont stay away from Ghettos. In fact whenever I travel, I make it a specific to travel right through the ghettos and get a good view. I actually even walk my dog through a ghetto to get to the woods. And on 4th of July last year, I took the short cut through the ghetto home and was cowering 'the black woman with the three babies is going to kill me'

So I'm as daft as the American hating world. So perhaps my daftness makes me connect.

Fair-n-luvly

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:43pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by mahikhan

Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by mahikhan

if US really have so many problems with the Muslims why do they give them visa....????


U.S. zabardasti visa deta hai kya unhey?  Naheen na.  I fail to understand why some folks still line up in front of the US embassy in their respective countries for American Visa when they hate America so much?  Yaar, intee takleef hai toh apney desh mein hee raho na.  Kis ney bola hai west bhaag ker aaney ko?
Hey,
long time no see...aty hi aise batein?OuchLOL
Well then US shouldnt give them visa simple btw yeh sab indian muslims ke sath bhi hota hao includin our celebs am i wong?


Busy these days with work.

I made a generic statement.  It was aimed at all those folks who migrate to U.S. or any other western country and then constantly badmouth it and harp how their culture is better than the country they migrated to etc. etc. etc.

If US stops giving visas to any one particular community, then that community will be the first one to cry out how Americans are discriminating against them.  Read your posts on any America related thread - most of them are full of stereotyping and badmouthing America. 

If by celebs you mean SRK - he made a mountain out of a molehill.    He is more than welcome  to not come back to the US.  Per jo insaan teen crore rupaye key liye begani shadiyon mein naachta phirta hai woh wapas US mein naachney kyoon naheen aayega?  SRK lost this fan after his moronic outburst after what was just a routine check when he was visiting US out of his own free will.
Not really!
See i aint against US i do have folks family there the  only thing which hurts me is when only Muslims are being interrogated and no one else....i might have said things which may hurt you or others but they do that i dont say that world is saying that ek 9/11 ki wajah se ktne iraqi roz merty hai who is responsible?
Afghanistan current situation,who is responsible ...acha if SRK did that for publicity or anyway just tell me is that not true he told what actually was done to him....Regarding US givin or not givin visa to anyone is not my problem but you tell me just onething do all come by their own will?
kitny logon ko better upportunities avail kerny ka chance milta hai woh aty hai i dont see the negative side only....but whatever is being done is wrong....interrogation can be done in a different manner too not all the muslims are extremists.

*Woh Ajnabee*

IF-Sizzlerz

*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3



Nope, it is NOT the same.  I take precautions to stay away from ghettos when travelling alone or out in the dark.  You don't see the muslim person who is hearing horror stories about America staying away from America.  If America is bad then why continue to live there and badmouth the country simultaneously?  If Islam is above every single thing - be it patriotism, friendship, relationship - then why not migrate to the so called islamic nations and live in peace there?

I see nothing common in me getting scared of a black person and avoiding him under certain circumstances and a brainwashed muslim person bad mouthing America while living in America.

Darn it girl - you forced me to log in againLOL




If you notice, anti-American sentiment exists mostly among those who have not even been to the US. Yes, there are definite fools living in the US, enjoying luxurious life, and simultaneously curse the nation, but most of this sentiment roots from those who have never set foot on US soil. Media plays a huge role there, they only know what is shown to them there, and we only know what is shown to us here. It is wrong both ways, and neither side has proper justifications. If the Americans dislike the Iraqis or Afghanis because of 9/11, then the Iraqis and Afghanis dislike the Americas because of the US led wars there. I'm going to be very cliched and say that two wrongs don't make a right.

And our stereotyping of a black person is similar to somebody who lives outside of America, having never set foot it in, but still carries anti-American sentiments. And your other reference to those who live in America and criticize the nation is a valid point for any and all nationalities that are currently in the US. You don't have to be Muslim to live in the US and still bash the nation. We have a wide array of other communities who hold similar sentiments. Again, either way, it does not make it acceptable or morally right.

God, I should go to bed. What am I doing?LOL

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Posted: 10 September 2009 at 10:46pm | IP Logged
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