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+* Dwapar Yuga: Doubts & Discussions *+ (Page 2)

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.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 3:48am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Kal El

Thanks Vrisha. Smile I will copy-paste my last post from the other thread:
Source: http://srimadbhagavatam.com/

There are some interesting legends connected to Iravan in South India. Check out the wiki link in my post above.

Thanks, Kal.  Bookmarked it!!!

I saw the wiki link.  Normally, I'm skeptical of them, since they are all over the place.

One thing - how is Iravana a legend in South India, when he was born to Uloopi, and should be much more of a folk hero in Nagaland?

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Kal El

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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 8:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vrisha

Originally posted by Kal El

Thanks Vrisha. Smile I will copy-paste my last post from the other thread:
Source: http://srimadbhagavatam.com/

There are some interesting legends connected to Iravan in South India. Check out the wiki link in my post above.

Thanks, Kal.  Bookmarked it!!!

I saw the wiki link.  Normally, I'm skeptical of them, since they are all over the place.


I wouldn't have posted the link if I weren't confident about it. Smile In fact I'm familiar with 2 of the  books cited as references by the wiki article. Also, one of the sources is an article from
The Journal of Asian Studies. I have access to that journal. I'll post that article when I get the chance.

Originally posted by Vrisha

One thing - how is Iravana a legend in South India, when he was born to Uloopi, and should be much more of a folk hero in Nagaland?


For one thing, the Nagas were supposed to be spread across the subcontinent. The legends certainly have them popping up everywhere. However, the issue of the link between the legendary nagas (who were also supposed to have connections to the netherworld) and the various naga tribes present today is different from the issue of the popularity of myths and legends about snakes and naga . And naga legends and snake cults are very popular all over the subcontinent and even beyond, especially southeast asia.

Whatever the case maybe, Iravana became popular in South India with some rather strange legends of ritual human sacrifice and Iravana being married to either Krishna (as Mohini) or the daughter of Satyaki. There is an entire third-gender sect in Tamil Nadu centered on the legend of Iravana (or Aravana as he is known in Tamil). The sect is called the Aravani/Ali and they regard Iravana as a deity.


Edited by Kal El - 03 July 2009 at 8:24am

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

.Vrish.

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Kal El


For one thing, the Nagas were supposed to be spread across the subcontinent. The legends certainly have them popping up everywhere. However, the issue of the link between the legendary nagas (who were also supposed to have connections to the netherworld) and the various naga tribes present today is different from the issue of the popularity of myths and legends about snakes and naga . And naga legends and snake cults are very popular all over the subcontinent and even beyond, especially southeast asia.

Whatever the case maybe, Iravana became popular in South India with some rather strange legends of ritual human sacrifice and Iravana being married to either Krishna (as Mohini) or the daughter of Satyaki. There is an entire third-gender sect in Tamil Nadu centered on the legend of Iravana (or Aravana as he is known in Tamil). The sect is called the Aravani/Ali and they regard Iravana as a deity.


Thanks for the explanation in the 2nd paragraph.

I know that the Nagas were a whole race of people, like Gandharvas, Kinnaras, et al.  But in this story, when Arjun was on his year long exile, his travel took him to Nagaland, and it was there he met Uloopi.  This is supported by the fact that after he left Chitrangada and Babruvahana, Uloopi, who was abandoned by Arjun, chose to live with them.  So the story of Uloopi and Chitrangada is very specific to the north east - Nagaland and Manipur in particular, and even though Iravan was a half Naga, he was a Naga from that area, and not one like, say, Kunti's maternal grandfather.  Which is why it's a little surprising to see him as a part of South Indian tradition.

That brings to mind another question.  In the Mahabharat, it seems that the maternal sources of the various princes had a huge bearing on what they became - Ghatotkacha a rakshasha, Abhimanyu a Yadava, Iravan a Naga, and so on.  One would have thought that as sons of Bhima and Arjun, they would have been Pandavas - nothing more, nothing less.

Vibhishna

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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vrisha

Originally posted by Kal El


For one thing, the Nagas were supposed to be spread across the subcontinent. The legends certainly have them popping up everywhere. However, the issue of the link between the legendary nagas (who were also supposed to have connections to the netherworld) and the various naga tribes present today is different from the issue of the popularity of myths and legends about snakes and naga . And naga legends and snake cults are very popular all over the subcontinent and even beyond, especially southeast asia.

Whatever the case maybe, Iravana became popular in South India with some rather strange legends of ritual human sacrifice and Iravana being married to either Krishna (as Mohini) or the daughter of Satyaki. There is an entire third-gender sect in Tamil Nadu centered on the legend of Iravana (or Aravana as he is known in Tamil). The sect is called the Aravani/Ali and they regard Iravana as a deity.


Thanks for the explanation in the 2nd paragraph.

I know that the Nagas were a whole race of people, like Gandharvas, Kinnaras, et al.  But in this story, when Arjun was on his year long exile, his travel took him to Nagaland, and it was there he met Uloopi.  This is supported by the fact that after he left Chitrangada and Babruvahana, Uloopi, who was abandoned by Arjun, chose to live with them.  So the story of Uloopi and Chitrangada is very specific to the north east - Nagaland and Manipur in particular, and even though Iravan was a half Naga, he was a Naga from that area, and not one like, say, Kunti's maternal grandfather.  Which is why it's a little surprising to see him as a part of South Indian tradition.

That brings to mind another question.  In the Mahabharat, it seems that the maternal sources of the various princes had a huge bearing on what they became - Ghatotkacha a rakshasha, Abhimanyu a Yadava, Iravan a Naga, and so on.  One would have thought that as sons of Bhima and Arjun, they would have been Pandavas - nothing more, nothing less.


If they had been brought up by their fathers, perhaps they would have been. But these three were brought up by their mothers and their mothers raised them in their own ways (as per the races they came from).

..RamKiJanaki..

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Posted: 03 July 2009 at 7:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vibhishna

Originally posted by Vrisha

Originally posted by Kal El


For one thing, the Nagas were supposed to be spread across the subcontinent. The legends certainly have them popping up everywhere. However, the issue of the link between the legendary nagas (who were also supposed to have connections to the netherworld) and the various naga tribes present today is different from the issue of the popularity of myths and legends about snakes and naga . And naga legends and snake cults are very popular all over the subcontinent and even beyond, especially southeast asia.

Whatever the case maybe, Iravana became popular in South India with some rather strange legends of ritual human sacrifice and Iravana being married to either Krishna (as Mohini) or the daughter of Satyaki. There is an entire third-gender sect in Tamil Nadu centered on the legend of Iravana (or Aravana as he is known in Tamil). The sect is called the Aravani/Ali and they regard Iravana as a deity.


Thanks for the explanation in the 2nd paragraph.

I know that the Nagas were a whole race of people, like Gandharvas, Kinnaras, et al.  But in this story, when Arjun was on his year long exile, his travel took him to Nagaland, and it was there he met Uloopi.  This is supported by the fact that after he left Chitrangada and Babruvahana, Uloopi, who was abandoned by Arjun, chose to live with them.  So the story of Uloopi and Chitrangada is very specific to the north east - Nagaland and Manipur in particular, and even though Iravan was a half Naga, he was a Naga from that area, and not one like, say, Kunti's maternal grandfather.  Which is why it's a little surprising to see him as a part of South Indian tradition.

That brings to mind another question.  In the Mahabharat, it seems that the maternal sources of the various princes had a huge bearing on what they became - Ghatotkacha a rakshasha, Abhimanyu a Yadava, Iravan a Naga, and so on.  One would have thought that as sons of Bhima and Arjun, they would have been Pandavas - nothing more, nothing less.


If they had been brought up by their fathers, perhaps they would have been. But these three were brought up by their mothers and their mothers raised them in their own ways (as per the races they came from).
 
That makes sense.

Same108

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Posted: 04 July 2009 at 4:31am | IP Logged
I always wanted to know which texts are you quoting ?
No, I can see references to SB, but I'm curious about Mahabharata text  as well.

ananyacool

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Posted: 04 July 2009 at 2:22pm | IP Logged
I had one doubt :
KM ganguli's translation of MBH (of Vyasa) gives an account in jarasandha vadh parva (a part of sabha parva) that Bheema pressed Jarasandh's back with his knee and then split his spine into two thus making a loud noise where as the popular version we know is that Bheema tore Jarasandh's body into half and then on Krishna's hint he threw the two halves in opposite direction so that they don't rejoin.
Which version does this story  arise from??
To me the KMG's translation in this respect seems more logical.
 

.Vrish.

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 05 July 2009 at 12:34am | IP Logged
Ananya

Thanks for this link - just bookmarked the home page.

I think the KMG account makes more sense too.  If Jarasandha could be rejoined, simply throwing them in opposite directions wouldn't have worked, since anyone could have put them back together, like Jara originally did.

Same

From now on, I think I may be quoting this source, unless I find really outrageous stuff in it.


Edited by Vrisha - 05 July 2009 at 12:35am

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