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What is wrong not learning Hindi? (Page 6)

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azman007

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azman007

Joined: 11 April 2009

Posts: 48

Posted: 15 April 2009 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by prat9

LOL!LOL..OMG!...another topic about hindi ONCE again!.....Hey guys why the majority of the non-hindi speaking people is makingsuch a big deal out of this language!.....(sorry guys i couldn't stay away from this one here)....I truly fail to see their points of reasoning here but I do lament their blind prejudices about resisting to the so-called oppression from other regions in India.....I find the whole argument put forward by them totally immatured and stuck in a single narrowed mind-set angle!....




here you go again, another one of those enlightened Hindi speaker who truly knows what he/she is preaching. no body is against Hindi language, we are against learning Hindi when we don't have to.

if you have truly failed to see our points of reasoning, then I wonder what your IQ level is? no offence here.

actually, it's the argument put forth by Hindi speakers such as majority speaks Hindi, Hindi is an Indian language etc, which looks overly immature and childish.






</P>If I'm not mistaken Hindi is actually the spoken language by the majority of Indiansirrespective of theirstate of origins in India.....


this is the most ridiculous statement. so what, if majority speaks Hindi...does it mean that you can roll over every one else who don't speak Hindi. that will be called majority based dictatorship, not a democracry.



I've met scores of Indians from different regions of this great country but so far I've never felt their antagonisms towards hindi when they do converse in that medium.....so why the non-speaking hindi Indians on this forumfeel so cornered and react so aggressively when it comes to learning hindi or making it an official language?....

what is your rationale for making hindi official language? see you are making absolutely no sense in promoting hindi as the official language except by arguing that "a majority speak hindi"

if we always keep talking about majority in india, then why did we divide our STATES based on linguistics lines? In each linguistically different state, the majority DON"T speak Hindi. see, your logic falls apart.



Going by the history of India, no true indian at the time of british colonial rule found the latter's reign over their country justified or even acceptable in the first place at that time..... and I believe though the abhorrenceand the averse attitude have considerably minimised and inconspicuously swept under the carpet, indians will not easily forget the countless atrocities and barbaric treatments endured by their great grandfathers at the hands of those loatheful and cold blooded insensitive britishers at that time...or may be they did forget!.....because judging by the number of posts here, they would rather prefer english over hindi any day!.....how logical is their thinking I wonder or should I rather say baseless....just because because!....this really beats me!!!.Confused




if preferring english over hindi is baseless, then why don't you throw "the parliament building", "Indian railways", "Westmister style democracy" out into the sea. weren't they all brought to India by the british? so, you'd selectively keep them, but not the british english?

i think your argument is narrow minded and baseless.



<P>


...sorry i don't mean to offend any particular indian state here but I love Hindi


i love Tamil more than any other language...my view of "MY INDIA" is one with Tamil as the central language. you may have a different one, which I am perfect with.

Besides, Hindi has NO HISTORY in our part of the region. Then why learn something I don't have to.


so much that i dream to be able to speak it as fluently as my native and first language which is French!....I even used to feel so bad that i was not born an indian or even born to indian parent/s but over the years when i see such 'unity' among you guys,well i have stopped complaining about my birth place and non-indian parents......as an observer here who loves India and finds it as the most amazing country in the world, i feel very sad when i see such strong discord over trivial matters....well how can a country with so many conflicts in each and every walk of its life ever be able to strike the right balance to create a consensusharmony on a large scale.....




are you telling me that in Hindi speaking areas people don't have strong discord and everything is hunky dory? please...

remember Babri Masjid demolition. Doesn't that sound trivial and silly to you?    Ask any Muslim and he'll tell you whether it's trivial or otherwise.



And i see topics about the political system in India....Can YOU ever change that!???!!.Forget it!....it's just a mere reflection of the MAJORITY of people's mentality on a much more broader aspect in life!....


this is the most asinine argument from you. majority rule means "mob' rule, as they say in Rome. democracy doesn't mean majority can roll over every one else. your view of "majority of the people" tells me how little you know about governing a diverse country like India.

God only knows what would happen if people like yourself come to power in India! God forbid!




...some people need to really introspect here and realise the wealth that you have been born with and bestowed upon without having to ask for it.....my best friends are actually indians born and brought up in Indiaand I am truly thankful that THEY are my TRUE and REAL friends indeed!....they belong to the handful of real indians with the true essence of India in their souls!




what you fail to understand is that you can be a great India by "agreeing to disagree". Just because you disagree with something doesn't make you any less Indian.

if your best friends represent the true essence of India, then why didn't they goto Siachen or Kashmir and defend the motherland? Of course, some may already do that, but also keep in mind that those Indians who show discord and don't represent the true essence of India from States are also the ones who are standing in Siachen and Kashmir and dying for their motherland. does it make them any less Indian because those very people speak Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and don't like Hindi?

i think it's you who has to introspect and respect sensibilities of other people in india.




P.S...plz bear in mind that this post may not necessarily point out to members on this forum but it's rathera generalised opinion of a larger majority of narrow-minded people out there.....and so plz don't come and bash me with some over heated arguments!WinkTongue.....



i have just shown that the large majority who disagree with something does not make them narrow-minded. it only shows that people are not uniform in india and "one size fits all" WILL NOT work in an indian context.

let us live our diversity and continue with our traditions and way of life.

i hope you were somewhat swayed by our arguments. don't define india in a purely one-dimensional language based context.

we in india should be proud of our multiple cultures, languages that NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world possess, and can continue be governed as a democracy respecting people's wishes.


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prat9

Senior Member

prat9

Joined: 05 June 2006

Posts: 436

Posted: 16 April 2009 at 12:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by azman007

Originally posted by prat9

LOL!LOL..OMG!...another topic about hindi ONCE again!.....Hey guys why the majority of the non-hindi speaking people is makingsuch a big deal out of this language!.....(sorry guys i couldn't stay away from this one here)....I truly fail to see their points of reasoning here but I do lament their blind prejudices about resisting to the so-called oppression from other regions in India.....I find the whole argument put forward by them totally immatured and stuck in a single narrowed mind-set angle!....




here you go again, another one of those enlightened Hindi speaker who truly knows what he/she is preaching. no body is against Hindi language, we are against learning Hindi when we don't have to.
 

 To begin with I'm not a Hindi speaker!...Plz pay more attention to your reading skills next time. I did mention my mother tongue is French, and if you weren't truly against this language as you put it so why such strong negative feelings about learning it....and plz note I'm certainly not compelling anyone here to learn Hindi!...I just gave my views on the general trend of thoughts of those who are against learning this language.


if you have truly failed to see our points of reasoning, then I wonder what your IQ level is? no offence here.

 I may not have any IQ as you implied but I don't need a brain to express my sentiments!...anyway let's check your high powered IQ level!

actually, it's the argument put forth by Hindi speakers such as majority speaks Hindi, Hindi is an Indian language etc, which looks overly immature and childish.

 Immature and childish?!!...and how would you weigh your own argument then?!!...what is so broadminded about it?

</P>If I'm not mistaken Hindi is actually the spoken language by the majority of Indiansirrespective of theirstate of origins in India.....


this is the most ridiculous statement. so what, if majority speaks Hindi...does it mean that you can roll over every one else who don't speak Hindi. that will be called majority based dictatorship, not a democracry.

My statement was clearly plausible here!....i was referring to those who actually know this language aside their own mother tongue!....did I give the impression I was rolling over non-hindi speakers....wow!...well that would include me as well, right?....dictatorship?democracy?...are we contesting on political platforms here?...i was under the impression of merely expressing our views here...so is that your definition of a high IQ?....




I've met scores of Indians from different regions of this great country but so far I've never felt their antagonisms towards hindi when they do converse in that medium.....so why the non-speaking hindi Indians on this forumfeel so cornered and react so aggressively when it comes to learning hindi or making it an official language?....

what is your rationale for making hindi official language? see you are making absolutely no sense in promoting hindi as the official language except by arguing that "a majority speak hindi"

I would have said EXACTLY the same thing had Tamil been spoken by 'majority of Indians'.....Just remove the 'Hindi' words and fill in the blanks with the word 'Tamil'.....you see unlike you I look for the most obvious & simple reason!......no ulterior motives behind my arguments except to be more positive in my outlook of life!...do you need an IQ for that?


if we always keep talking about majority in india, then why did we divide our STATES based on linguistics lines? In each linguistically different state, the majority DON"T speak Hindi. see, your logic falls apart.

I have no objectionable views about the way the states are divided in India, anyway all states in India are beautifully rich with their own regional cultures and customs....like nowhere else in this world....that is why I always used to say to my friends, if you have been to India, it's like you have seen the whole world!....and when I mentioned about the majority of indians, I was referring to Indians from all these combined states and NRIs together forming that majority who speak Hindi!....



Going by the history of India, no true indian at the time of british colonial rule found the latter's reign over their country justified or even acceptable in the first place at that time..... and I believe though the abhorrenceand the averse attitude have considerably minimised and inconspicuously swept under the carpet, indians will not easily forget the countless atrocities and barbaric treatments endured by their great grandfathers at the hands of those loatheful and cold blooded insensitive britishers at that time...or may be they did forget!.....because judging by the number of posts here, they would rather prefer english over hindi any day!.....how logical is their thinking I wonder or should I rather say baseless....just because because!....this really beats me!!!.Confused



if preferring english over hindi is baseless, then why don't you throw "the parliament building", "Indian railways", "Westmister style democracy" out into the sea. weren't they all brought to India by the british? so, you'd selectively keep them, but not the british english?

i think your argument is narrow minded and baseless.

so you are comparing structures with languages.....and YOU think I'm baseless and narrow minded!...LOL!....the whole point escaped your level of understanding here!.....what kind of reasoning is that? High IQ level?!....glad I'm not THAT 'brainy'!




<P>

...sorry i don't mean to offend any particular indian state here but I love Hindi


i love Tamil more than any other language...my view of "MY INDIA" is one with Tamil as the central language. you may have a different one, which I am perfect with.

 

So this statement of yours here AGAIN reflects your open-mindedness!?!....


Besides, Hindi has NO HISTORY in our part of the region. Then why learn something I don't have to.

 

Oh! so you mean had Hindi had its share of history in your part of region would that alone justify a reason enough to learn it?......and if ever Hindi is enforced as the official language, I truly doubt that people like you would have to go and learn it now....rationally speaking, I would think they will have it implemented in schools so that kids at a young age start learning it and a couple years down the road, the idea of having a uniformed literate Indian populations knowing Hindi will be achieved.......Don't worry this is purely hypothetical because after seeing your strong oppositions about this language you are already representing the views of thousands silent non-hindi speakers who may be sharing the same thoughts as you do.....



so much that i dream to be able to speak it as fluently as my native and first language which is French!....I even used to feel so bad that i was not born an indian or even born to indian parent/s but over the years when i see such 'unity' among you guys,well i have stopped complaining about my birth place and non-indian parents......as an observer here who loves India and finds it as the most amazing country in the world, i feel very sad when i see such strong discord over trivial matters....well how can a country with so many conflicts in each and every walk of its life ever be able to strike the right balance to create a consensusharmony on a large scale.....



are you telling me that in Hindi speaking areas people don't have strong discord and everything is hunky dory? please...
 
Now I'm seriously wondering if you did grasp  the points I have been  trying to make from the beginning....


remember Babri Masjid demolition. Doesn't that sound trivial and silly to you?    Ask any Muslim and he'll tell you whether it's trivial or otherwise.

Oh I didn't know that I typed with some invisible ink which was readable only to your eyes!.....Where did I mention about such matters being trivial?.....Trivial to me would refer to castes distinctions, dowry related problems, the untouchables issues just to name a few.....but yeah, the evil roots of all the major serious problems always boil down to one and same thing.....the 'extreme human flaws' factor.....




And i see topics about the political system in India....Can YOU ever change that!???!!.Forget it!....it's just a mere reflection of the MAJORITY of people's mentality on a much more broader aspect in life!....


this is the most asinine argument from you. majority rule means "mob' rule, as they say in Rome. democracy doesn't mean majority can roll over every one else. your view of "majority of the people" tells me how little you know about governing a diverse country like India.
 

Hey dude!.....you are completely off tangent now!...where did you get that impression of hindi speaking people want to roll over the rest of the non-speaking hindi population!??...Good gracious! are you that biased??


God only knows what would happen if people like yourself come to power in India! God forbid!

Even God can't rule over this world let alone India where human beings are so preoccupied of proving themselves to be better than anybody else....He has unique ways of handling human beings.....and I'm just a mere nobody!...

...some people need to really introspect here and realise the wealth that you have been born with and bestowed upon without having to ask for it.....my best friends are actually indians born and brought up in Indiaand I am truly thankful that THEY are my TRUE and REAL friends indeed!....they belong to the handful of real indians with the true essence of India in their souls!



what you fail to understand is that you can be a great India by "agreeing to disagree". Just because you disagree with something doesn't make you any less Indian.
 

 Did you really agree to disagree here?!!.....well you do have a weird way of showing it up with all these explosive arguments from YOUR side!....and as for ME disagreeing, I never showed a hint of disagreement here but rather conveyed my feelings about the whole issue of Hindi language......and what is there for me to agree or disagree?....I'm totally impartial and neutral since I don't favour any particular state in India over another one....To me India is beautiful as a whole country be it Hindi or Tamil speaking or any other language for that matter!.....


if your best friends represent the true essence of India, then why didn't they goto Siachen or Kashmir and defend the motherland? Of course, some may already do that, but also keep in mind that those Indians who show discord and don't represent the true essence of India from States are also the ones who are standing in Siachen and Kashmir and dying for their motherland. does it make them any less Indian because those very people speak Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and don't like Hindi?
 
AGAIN the Hindi language.......You seem so hell bent about harping back and forth on only one stuck notion in your mind!.....Did I really imply that those who do not speak that language is not an Indian....and so my indian friends need to prove their Indian-ness to me now?!....Anyways for your kind info, not all of them speak hindi and don't even understand the language but yet the way they all stand united for their motherland, it's incredibly amazing!.....and as for their essence of India resides in their beautiful nature as good human beings!...Being Indian for me,is just the icing on the cake......Looks like you are so blinded with your own prejudices that you can only see what is in your mind no matter what others would say....

i think it's you who has to introspect and respect sensibilities of other people in india.


Oh for sure  I will FURTHER introspect in my own views here because I know for a fact I can't be always right but I do give the scope to my own self to develop my mind and thoughts in a constructive way by taking in considerations other people's feelings and opinions.......You see I'm not born perfect unlike you and I'm fully aware of the limitations of my beliefs and perspectives of things around me!.....that is why my arguments were not filled with so many innuendoes brought out by you in your own preconceived mind!....and as for respecting the sensibilities of others, I would advise YOU to learn the true meaning of this phrase before preaching it to others!



P.S...plz bear in mind that this post may not necessarily point out to members on this forum but it's rathera generalised opinion of a larger majority of narrow-minded people out there.....and so plz don't come and bash me with some over heated arguments!WinkTongue.....



i have just shown that the large majority who disagree with something does not make them narrow-minded. it only shows that people are not uniform in india and "one size fits all" WILL NOT work in an indian context.

let us live our diversity and continue with our traditions and way of life.

i hope you were somewhat swayed by our arguments. don't define india in a purely one-dimensional language based context.
 

The debate on this topic was purely one dimensional in terms of language but YOU used only those arguments to draw your definitions of India in these terms...not me!....You said, You thought, You believed....well this  does not mean that I think on Your terms!!....anyway you have proved that you can read only what you want to see and completely failed to comprehend anything else beyond your dislike for Hindi......Yeah!I am undoubtedtly swayed by your strong incomprehensible dislike of one particular language here!

but let me clarify ONCE AGAIN....Though I'm not INDIAN in any way, I still and will always look upon this country as the most beautiful country in the whole universe barring the ugly stark realities looking right into our faces!....as IMO such realities exist elsewhere too, they only seemed more magnified in India due to its diverse and rich cultures closely interwoven in a complex composition...


we in india should be proud of our multiple cultures, languages that NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world possess, and can continue be governed as a democracy respecting people's wishes.

I doubt whether you understand the implications of your own words here!...had you been really proud, you should have been proud of all the languages in your motherland and be perfectly happy to learn any one of them if deems necessary! I don't think it will make you a lesser Indian by adopting an extra language from India which is not yours by birth!....

I being a Non-Indian I support India and Indians as though they are my fellow citizens....What would you call me?...a low level IQ person may be?!....and you know what? I don't care if IQ should be the rule of thumb to define my intelligence!.....I believe solely in the goodness of a human being even with all his flaws!...

 

Last but not the least,I would like to add this.......in a million years from now, if the planet would still exist, would the generations of those future years be worrying about whether Tamil or Hindi should be the language of communication... Who knows may be there will be only one language for the whole planet and no one will bother having to learn a new language then.....What would matter then just like now is the way to survive against all odds!.....

And the ONLY thing that matters to me most is to make a positive difference during my lifetime so that when I depart from this world, I'll rest easy to know that I've left behind a constructive future to my kids as part of a legacy to live life with a positive attitude and an open mind......

 


Edited by prat9 - 16 April 2009 at 12:42am

return_to_hades

IF-Veteran Member

return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20670

Posted: 16 April 2009 at 12:39am | IP Logged
Language is not just a form of communication. Spoken language is a representation of culture. It is a language that has evolved within the community for years and has become a part of their cultural identity. In fact language and culture have been historically interconnected.

That is why the Rosetta Stone is not merely a linguistic discovery. It was the means to unlocking a treasure of culture and history to the world. Languages and dialects can represent unique microcultures. Each native American tribe had its own custom and language. The dying of a language is often associated with the dying of a culture. It is no wonder people hold on dearly to their language.

Does a nation need a "national language"?


A common language would indeed be really nice. As we know language is a binding factor. It can be virtually impossible to pick a national language due to the sheer diversity. Very few countries really have a common national language.

However, an official language is needed. An official language is the preferred language to conduct business in. In a country that has a multitude of languages, there needs to be some common form of communication.

When India became a country it faced a challenge. Hindi was virtually unknown in the South. However, colonial influence had made English prominent. In the North with larger Hindi speaking numbers English was resisted and Hindi was still prominent. Hence, India picked Hindi and English as official languages. Each state was given the right to pick its internal official language.

As such there is really no "national" language.

The rashtra-bhasa controversy -

The problem arises because we have a large group of Indian population who feel that just like national flag, national anthem etc we need a national language. A symbol of Indian unity and pride. That would be a simple task if we were not so linguistically diverse. They are not wrong to expect that, because it would be great if we can pull it off.

However, by doing this we are asking various cultures within the country to hierarchically place an alien language above the language they cherish.

I personally know Hindi, Marathi, English & Konkani fluently, I can completely understand Gujarati but cannot speak it. I can understand French and Spanish if they speak slowly in beginner level. I am not averse to learning or needing to learn any language at all. In fact I would love to have the time to start formally learning more languages. I would not consider myself unpatriotic either. However, I cringe at the fact that some people feel I have to recognize a national Ianguage for India. It just bothers me to the core, and it hurts a lot that people would consider that unpatriotic or disrespectful.

For me languages are either ones I speak or dont. Languages are my mother tongue or not. Languages are my first language or second. Maybe its just me, and maybe I am wrong, maybe I am just another arse but accepting a national language is not easy. The rashtra-bhasha movement feels unfair.

The fear of dying -

People may think that a language will not die out or dwindle. Thats because its not a sudden occurence. It happens very very slowly. As generations go by, the number of people who know Konkani is dwindling. Apart from Goa its a language not affiliated to a state, but a coastal region. The pressure of state language, so called national language and then English. Most of my cousins do not know Konkani at all. They speak Marathi since we were in Mumbai. Some cousins in Karnataka speak Kannada. Only my Goan cousins know Konkani by default. My cousins in the states dont know any Indian language.

When the need to communicate in one language supercedes another, the superceding language will eventually fade out the other. Making Hindi "National" would require everyone to know it due to the "national" status. It would create a superceding need. Just like how state languages dominated Konkani in my family, a national language will dominate local tongues.

If I were to raise kids in the states I have a true dillemma do I teach them Konkani or Hindi (cos they must watch awesome Hindi movies) or Marathi (I am Mumbaikar afterall). Will I have time to teach all three or any combination.

Is there a need to learn -


Language is learned to communicate. Necesscity is the mother of invention. If you need to communicate you will learn. With many non Hindi speaking parts of India - a large proportion will never step out of their small towns or state lines. They see no need to learn something new. They see no need to communicate. Those who do travel or communicate with broader groups will learn. Learning langauge should be need based not requirement based.

So my perception -


South Indians should not feel hostility towards Hindi or Hindi speaking people. The rashtrabhasha movement is not exclusively based on Hindi, it is people who beleive in language for national identity and it includes a few South Indians too. Never disrespect or show any form of hostility to a language, culture or people for any reason. Do try to learn Hindi, it is the second official language in the country and most widely spoken. It always always pays to communicate and its better to build bridges than burn them. Learning a new language will be the best decision of your life. Heck my American friends try to learn Hindi because of their Indian friends.

On the other hand, people should not be expected to know Hindi or looked down upon for not knowing. There is nothing to be gained by making parts of the population that may never really be in contact with each other learn Hindi. I respect the fact that people want to foster national unity through language, but you would not want a national religion or national culture would you. Langauge is very close to personal culture and identity, its not easy to embrace a new one.

India could benefit from some federalization.

The third comment on this blog here is also well written and makes valid points - http://dlc22.blogspot.com/2005/01/rashtrabhasha.html

If there ever has to be national language it should be a neutrally constructed language - Esperanzindia.

Ash nazg durbatulk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul

If the one ring was a language....

azman007

Newbie

azman007

Joined: 11 April 2009

Posts: 48

Posted: 16 April 2009 at 8:18am | IP Logged
[QUOTE=prat9] [QUOTE=azman007][QUOTE=prat9]

LOL!LOL..OMG!...another topic about hindi ONCE again!.....Hey guys why the majority of the non-hindi speaking people is makingsuch a big deal out of this language!.....(sorry guys i couldn't stay away from this one here)....I truly fail to see their points of reasoning here but I do lament their blind prejudices about resisting to the so-called oppression from other regions in India.....I find the whole argument put forward by them totally immatured and stuck in a single narrowed mind-set angle!....




here you go again, another one of those enlightened Hindi speaker who truly knows what he/she is preaching. no body is against Hindi language, we are against learning Hindi when we don't have to.


<FONT color=#990000>To begin with I'm not a Hindi speaker!...Plz pay more attention to your reading skills next time. I did mention my mother tongue is French, and if you weren't truly against this language as you put it so why such strong negative feelings about learning it....and plz note I'm certainly not compelling anyone here to learn Hindi!...I just gave my views on the general trend of thoughts of those who are against learning this language.</FONT>




AZ: Look, it is you who said things like "immature" and "narrow-minded", not me. you made your arguments without any iota of understanding of why non-hindi speaking pepole make a big deal about learning hindi. we didn't start the whole language discussion in india at the national level, it's the majority policitians from north india who keep harping on it from 1947.




if you have truly failed to see our points of reasoning, then I wonder what your IQ level is? no offence here.


<FONT color=#990000>I may not have any IQ as you implied but I don't need a brain to express my sentiments!...anyway let's check your high powered IQ level!</FONT>


actually, it's the argument put forth by Hindi speakers such as majority speaks Hindi, Hindi is an Indian language etc, which looks overly immature and childish.


<FONT color=#990000>Immature and childish?!!...and how would you weigh your own argument then?!!...what is so broadminded about it?

[color = blue]
all we south indians are saying is why not use English as the link language, not Hindi because the kind of people who emmigrate out of south india can learn to live with English.

since everyone in South india learn English, why learn another language in Hindi. is that crystal clear to you?

now, i am sure you will argue that my above statements are narrow-minded...
[/color]


</FONT>



</P>If I'm not mistaken Hindi is actually the spoken language by the majority of Indiansirrespective of theirstate of origins in India.....


this is the most ridiculous statement. so what, if majority speaks Hindi...does it mean that you can roll over every one else who don't speak Hindi. that will be called majority based dictatorship, not a democracry.

<FONT color=#990000>My statement was clearly plausible here!....i was referring to those who actually know this language aside their own mother tongue!....did I give the impression I was rolling over non-hindi speakers....wow!...well that would include me as well, right?....dictatorship?democracy?...are we contesting on political platforms here?...i was under the impression of merely expressing our views here...so is that your definition of a high IQ?....</FONT>



i was alluding to the fact that "majority of indians don't speak IRRESPECTIVE of their STATE ORIGINS" because hindi is spoken widely in only 3 or 4 states in India...in other states, the majority of the people speak a regional language. that's why i said that your point was ridiculuos.



I've met scores of Indians from different regions of this great country but so far I've never felt their antagonisms towards hindi when they do converse in that medium.....so why the non-speaking hindi Indians on this forumfeel so cornered and react so aggressively when it comes to learning hindi or making it an official language?....

what is your rationale for making hindi official language? see you are making absolutely no sense in promoting hindi as the official language except by arguing that "a majority speak hindi"



<P><FONT color=#990000>I would have said EXACTLY the same thing had Tamil been spoken by 'majority of Indians'.....Just remove the 'Hindi' words and fill in the blanks with the word 'Tamil'.....you see unlike you I look for the most obvious & simple reason!......no ulterior motives behind my arguments except to be more positive in my outlook of life!...do you need an IQ for that?</FONT>




that is where your logic / argument FALLS APART. you again make the case that if a "MAJORITY" speak a language, then EVERYONE should speak the same.

even if Tamil was the most widely spoken language in India, I personally would NOT have argued for Tamil as the national language if a large SECTION OF PEOPLE are UNWILLING TO LEARN. It is in fact the IMPOSITION, REQUIREMENT that people from non-Hindi speaking areas learn Hindi to communicate with rest of India is what makes people allergic.





if we always keep talking about majority in india, then why did we divide our STATES based on linguistics lines? In each linguistically different state, the majority DON"T speak Hindi. see, your logic falls apart.


<FONT color=#990000>I have no objectionable views about the way the states are divided in India, anyway all states in India are beautifully rich with their own regional cultures and customs....like nowhere else in this world....that is why I always used to say to my friends, if you have been to India, it's like you have seen the wholeworld!....and when I mentioned about the majority of indians, I was referring to Indians from all these combined states and NRIs together forming that majority who speak Hindi!....

</FONT>

Going by the history of India, no true indian at the time of british colonial rule found the latter's reign over their country justified or even acceptable in the first place at that time..... and I believe though the abhorrenceand the averse attitude have considerably minimised and inconspicuously swept under the carpet, indians will not easily forget the countless atrocities and barbaric treatments endured by their great grandfathers at the hands of those loatheful and cold blooded insensitive britishers at that time...or may be they did forget!.....because judging by the number of posts here, they would rather prefer english over hindi any day!.....how logical is their thinking I wonder or should I rather say baseless....just because because!....this really beats me!!!.Confused



if preferring english over hindi is baseless, then why don't you throw "the parliament building", "Indian railways", "Westmister style democracy" out into the sea. weren't they all brought to India by the british? so, you'd selectively keep them, but not the british english?

i think your argument is narrow minded and baseless.

<FONT color=#990000>so you are comparing structures with languages.....and YOU think I'm baseless and narrow minded!...LOL!....the whole point escaped your level of understanding here!.....what kind of reasoning is that? High IQ level?!....glad I'm not THAT 'brainy'!

[color = blue]
i think you are the one who FAILS to understand the LOGIC here. if the british represents the "loathful" and "cold blooded insensitive people", then I am naturally extending the LOGIC to "ALL THINGS BRITISH". doesn't "westminster style democracry", "parliament building" etc represent the same "cold blooded insensitvie people"? why are you so amenable to accepting those structures built by the british, whereas you can't accept the enlgish language?

[/color]



</FONT>


<P>


<P>...sorry i don't mean to offend any particular indian state here but I love Hindi


i love Tamil more than any other language...my view of "MY INDIA" is one with Tamil as the central language. you may have a different one, which I am perfect with.



<FONT color=#990000>So this statement of yours here AGAIN reflects your open-mindedness!?!....</FONT>



read the last part, which says "if you have a different INDIA in mind, then I am perfectly ok living with it, i.e., if Hindi is central to your India, then I respect and live with that." how is that not broad minded?



Besides, Hindi has NO HISTORY in our part of the region. Then why learn something I don't have to.



<FONT color=#990000>Oh! so you mean had Hindi had its share of history in your part of region would that alone justify a reason enough to learn it?......and if everHindi is enforced as the official language, I truly doubt that people like you would have to go and learn it now....rationally speaking, I would think they will have it implemented in schools so that kids at a young age start learning it and a couple years down the road, the idea of having a uniformed literate Indian populations knowing Hindi will be achieved.......Don't worry this is purely hypothetical because after seeing your strong oppositions about this language you are already representing the views of thousands silent non-hindi speakers who may be sharing the same thoughts as you do.....</FONT>




so much that i dream to be able to speak it as fluently as my native and first language which is French!....I even used to feel so bad that i was not born an indian or even born to indian parent/s but over the years when i see such 'unity' among you guys,well i have stopped complaining about my birth place and non-indian parents......as an observer here who loves India and finds it as the most amazing country in the world, i feel very sad when i see such strong discord over trivial matters....well how can a country with so many conflicts in each and every walk of its life ever be able to strike the right balance to create a consensusharmony on a large scale.....



are you telling me that in Hindi speaking areas people don't have strong discord and everything is hunky dory? please...


<FONT color=#990000>Now I'm seriously wondering if you did grasp the points I have been trying to make from the beginning</FONT><FONT color=#000000>....</FONT>


remember Babri Masjid demolition. Doesn't that sound trivial and silly to you?    Ask any Muslim and he'll tell you whether it's trivial or otherwise.

<FONT color=#990000>Oh I didn't know that I typed with some invisible ink which was readable only to your eyes!.....Where did I mention about such matters being trivial?.....Trivial to me would refer tocastes distinctions, dowry related problems, the untouchables issues just to name a few.....but yeah, the evil roots of all the major serious problems always boil down to one and same thing.....the 'extreme humanflaws' factor.....</FONT>



What I meant is that "LANGUAGE ISSUE IS NOT TRIVIAL"? No problem is trivial if people have a strong CONVICTION about it. You may be CASTE neutral, but there are people in India who's central identity is caste. It may be trivial for you, but not for them.




And i see topics about the political system in India....Can YOU ever change that!???!!.Forget it!....it's just a mere reflection of the MAJORITY of people's mentality on a much more broader aspect in life!....


this is the most asinine argument from you. majority rule means "mob' rule, as they say in Rome. democracy doesn't mean majority can roll over every one else. your view of "majority of the people" tells me how little you know about governing a diverse country like India.

either you have no idea of the implications of what you wrote or you are just blind. You said that "political system in India cannot be changed because it reflects the MAJORITY people's mentality....that is precisely what I am referring to...majority doesn't mean that others have to accept the status quo..."




<FONT color=#990000>Hey dude!.....you are completely off tangent now!...where did you get that impression of hindi speaking people want to roll over the rest of the non-speaking hindi population!??...Good gracious! are you that biased??</FONT>



God only knows what would happen if people like yourself come to power in India! God forbid!

<FONT color=#990000>Even God can't rule over this world let alone India where human beings are so preoccupied of proving themselves to be better than anybody else....He has unique ways of handling human beings.....and I'm just a mere nobody!...

</FONT>

...some people need to really introspect here and realise the wealth that you have been born with and bestowed upon without having to ask for it.....my best friends are actually indians born and brought up in Indiaand I am truly thankful that THEY are my TRUE and REAL friends indeed!....they belong to the handful of real indians with the true essence of India in their souls!



what you fail to understand is that you can be a great India by "agreeing to disagree". Just because you disagree with something doesn't make you any less Indian.

[DIV]
[P][B]
<FONT color=#990000>Did you really agree to disagree here?!!.....well you do have a weird way of showing it up with all these explosive arguments from YOUR side!....and as for ME disagreeing, I never showed a hint of disagreement here but rather conveyed my feelings about the whole issue of Hindi language......and what is there for me to agree or disagree?....I'm totally impartial and neutral since I don't favour any particular state in India over another one....To me India is beautiful as a whole country be it Hindi or Tamil speaking or any other language for that matter!.....

[b]
i didn't say that YOU as in YOURSELF, what I meant is "Just because PEOPLE from other regions disagree with something doesn't make them any less Indian."

Look, you are the one who made the following explosive statements/words:
(1) immature
(2) baseless
(3) narrow-minded
(4) their logic beats me
(5) feeling oppressed
(6) reacting aggressively to hindi
(7) they belong to the handful of real indians with the true essence of India in their souls!

what do you expect?


I could go on, but let us leave it at that.

Thanks.

AZ

prat9

Senior Member

prat9

Joined: 05 June 2006

Posts: 436

Posted: 16 April 2009 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
@azman07.....I rest my case. End of discussion.
 
Thanks.
 
@return_to_hades....Clap

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 17 April 2009 at 12:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by prat9

 

Last but not the least,I would like to add this.......in a million years from now, if the planet would still exist, would the generations of those future years be worrying about whether Tamil or Hindi should be the language of communication... Who knows may be there will be only one language for the whole planet and no one will bother having to learn a new language then.....What would matter then just like now is the way to survive against all odds!.....

And the ONLY thing that matters to me most is to make a positive difference during my lifetime so that when I depart from this world, I'll rest easy to know that I've left behind a constructive future to my kids as part of a legacy to live life with a positive attitude and an open mind......

 
very impressive perspective prat9 Clap I do hope & pray that our human race does survive that long Tongue

..RamKiJanaki..

IF-Stunnerz

..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 44412

Posted: 17 April 2009 at 10:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by azman007

Friends,
I have always wondered why some section of the Hindi speaking population is hell bent on others learning Hindi, where as they themselves are lazy enough not to learn other languages. There are many many languages in India, and it would be very hard, nearly impossible, for someone to learn every single language. Hindi is the main language of India because it is closest to Sanskrit, and it would not be hard for a person to learn/grow up with two languages: Hindi and their own separate language (Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, etc). If everyone knows Hindi, they would find it much easier to communicate with people in other parts of India as well, whereas if they learn only the language they want, they would find it hard to communicate with others. Also, Sanskrit is our mother tongue, but it is a very tough language and many people do not know how to speak it. Since Hindi is the closest language to Sanskrit, it is the main language of India which most people, if not everyone, should learn.

Didn't our forefathers say "Unity in Diversity"? Exactly how are other cultures being threatened if someone learns Hindi?ConfusedStern Smile No one is stopping people from learning the language they want, they only want them to learn Hindi as well.
What happened to the tolerance for other languages and culture? So all of a sudden, if you are forced to learn Hindi, tolerance for other languages is decreasing? Sorry, that doesn't make sense. No one is insulting other languages. They merely want you to learn the Mother tongue of India. Is that so wrong to ask of an Indian?
Isn't our national anthem written by a Bengali in the language of Bengali? It was written in Sanskritized Bengali by Rabindranath Tagore; it is more sanskrit than Bengal.


I'd like to have an open and honest debate / discussion. May be us citizens will come up with some answers. What answers? I think that as a citizen of India, or an Indian living in a foreign country, it is minimal that one should know their mother tongue. It should not be forgotten in place of foreign languages. Of course, learn as many foreign languages as you want, there is nothing wrong in that, but first one should know their mother tongue. Forgetting or abandoning one's culture, which includes language, is like forgetting one's mother. It should not be done. 

Thanks.

AZ

..RamKiJanaki..

IF-Stunnerz

..RamKiJanaki..

Joined: 20 August 2008

Posts: 44412

Posted: 17 April 2009 at 10:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by angie.4u

Originally posted by prat9

 

Last but not the least,I would like to add this.......in a million years from now, if the planet would still exist, would the generations of those future years be worrying about whether Tamil or Hindi should be the language of communication... Who knows may be there will be only one language for the whole planet and no one will bother having to learn a new language then.....What would matter then just like now is the way to survive against all odds!.....

And the ONLY thing that matters to me most is to make a positive difference during my lifetime so that when I depart from this world, I'll rest easy to know that I've left behind a constructive future to my kids as part of a legacy to live life with a positive attitude and an open mind......

 
very impressive perspective prat9 Clap I do hope & pray that our human race does survive that long Tongue
 
Don't worry; it will. Our Kali Yug has only just started.Wink

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