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Ginny and harry as a couple??!!! (Page 4)

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~*Thamizhan*~

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Posted: 16 April 2009 at 1:49am | IP Logged
Originally posted by redhotght

Ummm..Harry can be with anyone except for Hermione. I have no problem.

Can't agree more!Big smile

I disliked Harry from the start, so I didn't care when he ended up with Ginny (another less favourite character of mine). I don't know about them as a couple, Ginny changed dramatically throughout the series and Harry was just Harry.

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Posted: 17 April 2009 at 11:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by shellytt

 
Added to that, is the fact that Hermoine knew how much Ginny liked Harry and she would never do anything to jeopardize her friendship with Ginny. We have to remember that she was really good friends with Ginny too, probably her best girl friend.  Harry had Ron as his best guy friend and Hermoine had Ginny.
I'd need to go through the entire series but I don't think it is ever explicitly mentioned that Hermione is as close a friend to Ginny as Ron is to Harry. It's a valid assumption, no doubt, that they would be casual friends but I don't think their relation is half as concrete as Ron/Harry's friendship. There was the instance in OOTP where Hermione mentions that Ginny grew tired of waiting for Harry but as far as I can recall, it seemed that it was Hermione's intuitive nature that gave the conclusion rather than serious gossiping sessions. The one where Hermione mentions that Ginny practiced on Fred and George's brooms does not reflect the deep bonding that Harry and Ron share either. Rather, it appears to be an information to be shared with casual friends. Feel free to correct me on this account; I can't quite recall it.
 
- - - - - -
 
As for Ginny and Harry as a couple, they certainly aren't a good match. It has to do primarily with Ginny's Mary Sue-like traits and the lack of development for the Harry/Ginny relationship. Since I have the tendency to go off into a tangent regarding Ginny being a canon Mary Sue (suffice it to say that she became very mean-spirited in the latter half of the series), I will limit this post to the lack to development in the H/G relationship in the books prior to Deathly Hallows:
  • Book One: Ginny chases the Hogwarts Express as she is overwhelmed by her infatuation/crush for Harry. Harry merely watches her. She does not evoke a strong emotional response in him.
  • Book Two: Ginny's crush on Harry is mentioned. When she sends him a valentine, instead of being smitten, Harry is embarrassed. Harry saves her from the Basilisk but Ginny does not thank him nor do they talk about this event again until much later. Testament to the fact that this Harry would've done the same had any other person been taken.
  • Book Three: Ginny still fancies Harry. She still fails to evoke much emotional response in Harry.
  • Book Four: Ginny still likes Harry. At Ron's suggestion that Ginny go with Harry to the Yule Ball, Harry does not seem to be vying for the chance to escort Ginny to the ball which is later reinforced when Harry asks Parvati to be his date. No reciprocation of Ginny's feelings so far.
  • Book Five: Ginny "gives up" on Harry yet he does not notice it himself. It takes Hermione for him to notice that Ginny might not like him.
  • Book Six: Harry finally starts seeing Ginny as something other than Ron's baby sister. It reminded me of Ron's reaction in GoF where he notes with Neville's help that Hermione is a girl. Hermione, like any self-respecting girl would, finds Ron's reaction demeaning; Ginny seems to not mind Harry's sudden observation. Voila! Love is in the air.

As far as I can see, there isn't much foundation for this relationship. Hell, if Ron-Hermione's relationship/attraction is based on the fact that they fight then, even the Draco-Harry relationship has more credence and set-up than the Ginny-Harry relationship.

A couple of people brought up the point that Ginny would be better than Luna or Hermione in understanding Harry because she was once possessed by Voldemort. I disagree. Although yes, they both went through a life-changing experience, they never really talked about it. If my memory serves me right, Harry did not delve into Ginny being possessed his arch nemesis. He didn't talk to her (nor she to him) or to his best friends. In fact, the events of Book Two aren't brought up much and when they are, it is a passing reference. For instance in OOTP, Harry is wallowing in self-pity after Nagini attacks Arthur. He does not wish to talk of his experience and GInny callously remarks that he wasn't the only one to be possessed by Voldemort. Harry apologizes but besides that, he never truly considers her experience with Voldemort. Hence, the point that Ginny ostensibly understands the experience is moot because it isn't used as the basis for their relationship. This is a point where the Luna-Harry relationship scores over the Ginny-Harry one: Luna and Harry bond to an extent over the loss of parental figures in OOTP. Harry also states something to the effect that he felt soothed after talking to Luna. That is the sort of development that would eventually lead to a relationship, in my opinion, not the hurried pseudo-development of Ginny/Harry.

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Posted: 18 April 2009 at 9:28am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ShadowKisses

Originally posted by shellytt

 
Added to that, is the fact that Hermoine knew how much Ginny liked Harry and she would never do anything to jeopardize her friendship with Ginny. We have to remember that she was really good friends with Ginny too, probably her best girl friend.  Harry had Ron as his best guy friend and Hermoine had Ginny.
I'd need to go through the entire series but I don't think it is ever explicitly mentioned that Hermione is as close a friend to Ginny as Ron is to Harry. It's a valid assumption, no doubt, that they would be casual friends but I don't think their relation is half as concrete as Ron/Harry's friendship. There was the instance in OOTP where Hermione mentions that Ginny grew tired of waiting for Harry but as far as I can recall, it seemed that it was Hermione's intuitive nature that gave the conclusion rather than serious gossiping sessions. The one where Hermione mentions that Ginny practiced on Fred and George's brooms does not reflect the deep bonding that Harry and Ron share either. Rather, it appears to be an information to be shared with casual friends. Feel free to correct me on this account; I can't quite recall it. Hermione and Ginny were friends, but as you said, they were casual friends, no where near as close as Harry and Ron. Actually, it mentions a lot in the books that Ginny was closer with Luna than Hermione, them being in the same year, therefore having more classes together, and in the 7th book, it was Ginny, Luna, and Neville who reinstated Dumbledore's Army, so they became a close trio like Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
However, Hermione still would not go out with Harry even if she liked him in that way, because Ginny was still her friend, and whether close or not, she wouldn't do something to hurt Ginny. Same with Luna. Just like Harry would not go out with Hermione even if he liked her that way, because he would not want to hurt Ron.
 
- - - - - -
 
As for Ginny and Harry as a couple, they certainly aren't a good match. It has to do primarily with Ginny's Mary Sue-like traits and the lack of development for the Harry/Ginny relationship. Harry and Ginny's relationship was not as developed as Ron and Hermione's, because Rowling did not want romance to be the central point in Harry's life. She said so herself when someone asked her about Harry/Ginny as a couple. The central point of Harry's life was to defeat Voldemort once and for all, and because of that, he did not have time nor interest in having major romance in his life. Since I have the tendency to go off into a tangent regarding Ginny being a canon Mary Sue (suffice it to say that she became very mean-spirited in the latter half of the series Actually she turned kinder as the books went on. She wasn't at all mean-spirited. I actually felt Hermione was more mean-spirited than Ginny in the later books. She certainly understood Harry less and less as the books went on. Ginny and even Luna understood him more. Can you give a few passages from the books to support your claim that Ginny was mean-sprited? Because I have plenty of passages which show Ginny's kindness and caring attitude.), I will limit this post to the lack to development in the H/G relationship in the books prior to Deathly Hallows:
    Book One: Ginny chases the Hogwarts Express as she is overwhelmed by her infatuation/crush for Harry. Harry merely watches her. She does not evoke a strong emotional response in him. Excuse me, but Harry was a 11 year old. As far as I know, 11 year old boys do not form attachments for girls as that age. Even Ron did not like Hermione in "that way" until the 4th book.  Book Two: Ginny's crush on Harry is mentioned. When she sends him a valentine, instead of being smitten, Harry is embarrassed. Harry saves her from the Basilisk but Ginny does not thank him nor do they talk about this event again until much later. Testament to the fact that this Harry would've done the same had any other person been taken. Harry was still only 12, and of course he would be embarrassed. Ginny was professing her "crush" on him in front of Malfoy and the Slytherins, and though sweet, the poem was corny. It's obvious he'd be embarrassed. Though Ginny doesn't "thank" him, she does show concern for his wound, and she was a 11 year old girl who was taken into the Chamber of Secrets by a basilisk. Not many adults could have taken that, and she was overwhelmed. It was a big thing she had gone through, and she did not know Harry well until the 5th book, so why would she confide in him? And girls tend to confide in these things with other girls, not guys they have crushes on. How many times did Hermione confide with Ron about things she had gone through, or the prejudice she received form Slytherins for being Muggleborn? Book Three: Ginny still fancies Harry. She still fails to evoke much emotional response in Harry. Which shows that her "crush" on Harry was more than just a crush. She was starting to like him for his personality that being "the boy who lived". She was starting to grow up from the blushing giggling girl to someone mature. And I know lots of guys who don't show interest in girls until the age of 15. 13 is still a pretty young age for boys to "like" girls in that way. And we can't forget that Harry went through a lot of things every year at Hogwarts. He was always in the center of things, and girls did not mean much to him until the 5th book. And not everyone marries the first person they like. Many people go through some relationships first before dating the person they'll eventually marry. Ginny and Harry's relationship was slow and steady, which made it so much sweeter when they finally did get together.   Book Four: Ginny still likes Harry. At Ron's suggestion that Ginny go with Harry to the Yule Ball, Harry does not seem to be vying for the chance to escort Ginny to the ball which is later reinforced when Harry asks Parvati to be his date. No reciprocation of Ginny's feelings so far. He had a crush on Cho. Like I said, not everyone marries the first person they have a crush on. Harry liked Ginny later than Ginny like him, and he actually did ask Ginny before he asked Parvathi. Ginny told him she was going with Neville, so Harry asked the next available person: Parvati. And Ginny still liked Harry, but she was much more mature and instead of waiting around for Harry to ask her, she accepted the person who asked her. It showed that she was not a weak weeping character, but someone who was strong and much more mature than before.  Book Five: Ginny "gives up" on Harry yet he does not notice it himself. It takes Hermione for him to notice that Ginny might not like him. We only have Hermione's word that Ginny "gave up" on Harry. Ginny herself says in the 6th book that she never gave up on Harry, but she wanted to try to move on instead of waiting around for Harry forever, because she did not want to tie herself down by waiting for someone who may never like her in that way. That's why she dated Michael Corner and Dean Thomas for awhile, but none of them worked out because she realized that she no longer simply liked Harry, she loved him.
  • Book Six: Harry finally starts seeing Ginny as something other than Ron's baby sister. It reminded me of Ron's reaction in GoF where he notes with Neville's help that Hermione is a girl. Hermione, like any self-respecting girl would, finds Ron's reaction demeaning; Ginny seems to not mind Harry's sudden observation. Voila! Love is in the air. It's not that Harry didn't realize Ginny was a girl. It's that he always only saw her as Ron's little sister, and he started to see her as more in the 6th book, because she was a very different Ginny from before. She matured, she was braver, more intelligent, kinder, and she was one of the very few people who stuck with Harry from the beginning to end in his fight against Voldemort. Harry saw that she deserved more recognition beyond being "Ron's little sister", and it was her change in personality, change in manners, and maturity that made Harry have feelings for her in the 6th book. She changed from a giggling blushing girl to a strong, independent person worthy of being Harry's girlfriend/wife in every way. On the other hand, Ron had a crush on Hermione since the 3rd or 4th book. It's not that he realized she was a girl all of a sudden, but that he needed a push in the right direction, as in "Hermione may be your friend, but she won't wait around forever if you want a relationship beyond simply friendship. 

As far as I can see, there isn't much foundation for this relationship. Hell, if Ron-Hermione's relationship/attraction is based on the fact that they fight then, even the Draco-Harry relationship has more credence and set-up than the Ginny-Harry relationship. Not everyone's relationship is based on the fact that they fight.Confused There are so many different kinds of relationships, and if all the romances in Harry Potter were based on the fact that "they fought, so they'd make a good couple", I'd be pretty boring reading about them.

A couple of people brought up the point that Ginny would be better than Luna or Hermione in understanding Harry because she was once possessed by Voldemort. I disagree. Although yes, they both went through a life-changing experience, they never really talked about it. I personally have never encountered much people who've talked to their "crushes" about what they went through. I'd expect Ginny to open up to Hermione, Luna, or even her mother before she'd open up to Harry. Also, she did not feel the need to open up, because she became stronger for her experience, she did not have flashes of memory into Voldemort's mind, and she did not feint in the middle of classes. She only told Harry that she understood what he was going through, because she had a similar experience, and she'd be there if he needed to talk to anyone about it. That doesn't mean that she had to share her feelings with Harry.  If my memory serves me right, Harry did not delve into Ginny being possessed his arch nemesis. He didn't talk to her (nor she to him) or to his best friends. In fact, the events of Book Two aren't brought up much and when they are, it is a passing reference. For instance in OOTP, Harry is wallowing in self-pity after Nagini attacks Arthur. He does not wish to talk of his experience and GInny callously remarks that he wasn't the only one to be possessed by Voldemort. Harry apologizes but besides that, he never truly considers her experience with Voldemort. Hence, the point that Ginny ostensibly understands the experience is moot because it isn't used as the basis for their relationship. How do you know it isn't used as the basis for their relationship? You're not the one who wrote the books. Harry apologizes, yes, but he also realizes that he and Ginny share one thing which none of his friends do; that experience being possessed by Voldemort. And it's also this understanding later on that makes Harry fall in love with her. That connection to Voldemort they had was both terrible and something that other people wouldn't understand, no matter how close of friends they are. This is what makes Harry/Ginny a far better relationship that Harry/Hermione and Harry/Luna. This is a point where the Luna-Harry relationship scores over the Ginny-Harry one: Luna and Harry bond to an extent over the loss of parental figures in OOTP. Harry also states something to the effect that he felt soothed after talking to Luna. Harry and Luna's relationship was sweet, but it was nothing more than brother/sister relationship. The loss of a parent which they both shared, and the way Luna made Harry feel better at some points, showed Luna as a sister that Harry never had, not as a potential girlfriend. After Deathly Hallows, Ginny shared the loss of a family member with Harry (Fred), but that wasn't what made them a couple. They were a couple because they understood each other in many many aspects, not one, while Luna and Harry didn't share much except the loss of a parent, which a sister and friend both could understand, not only someone who could be your potential girlfriend. That is the sort of development that would eventually lead to a relationship, in my opinion, not the hurried pseudo-development of Ginny/Harry. Ginny and Harry's relationship was not at all hurried. Unlike many books I see, where people fall in love over a year or two, Ginny and Harry got to know each other a lot first before getting to know each other. Harry, instead of simply being the Boy Who Lived, because someone whom Ginny could relate with, love, and respect, while Ginny became the kind of woman Harry needed: strong, independent, loving, caring, and someone who wouldn't stand by and bear with Harry when he had one of his temper fits and "I feel so sorry for myself" moods. Of course, I respect your opinion that you do not like Harry/Ginny as a couple, and I like how you supported your views. I enjoy debating with you.WinkSmile 

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shellytt

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Posted: 18 April 2009 at 9:31am | IP Logged
@Showkisseses
 
Regarding the Hermoine \Ginny relationship, there is another instance that ou failed to mention, that could solidify the fact that Hermoine and Ginny were more than just "casual friends". There were many occasions that Hermoine sort the company of Ginny rather than Harry\Ron whilst at the Burrow. While this sitaution arises from the fact that they both were young girls and therefore might have been obliged to stay together for proprioty reasons (eg sleeping arrangements), this could have developed intgo something more than casual friends.
 
They were in fact good friends, because I believe that Hermoine didn't intitutively know that Ginny liked Harry, but it was from discussions\gossiping that the girls had. Ginny goes so far to say that it was based on Hermoine's advice that se moved on with her life, which would make Harry notice her more, because she would become more of herself. Given that Harry and Hermoine were such good friends, I don't think that Ginny would have been very comfortable revealing information about her infatuation with Harry to Hermoine, if she wasn't sure of her trust in Hermoine not going bac and teling Harry (to whom se was very embarrased to be around). Simlarly, Hermoine also confided in Ginny, things that she didn't tell Ron and Hermoine, for example Ginny knew who Hermoine was going to the Yule Ball with and refused to tell Ron\Hermoine when they tried to get the info.
 
And though your points regarding the development of the Harry\Ginny relationship is valid, I feel that we need to look at teh relationship from OOTP onwards, and not really too much before. Harry paid little attention to Ginny before then, viewing her as merely Ron's little sister, however, his attitude towards Ginny started to become more friendship based from OOTP where Ginny, finally let her guard downa dn was more of herself, which is a side of her Harry had never really seen. She at this stage would have realised, that Ginny (much like her brothers) had quite alot of wit and enthuisum and character, which made her more of a friend from this novel. That friendship grew ito something more in HBP, as Harry, now over his own infatuation with Cho, starts seeing Ginny in a more romantic light, much like Ron realising that Hermoine was much more than a friend later on.
 
 


Edited by shellytt - 18 April 2009 at 9:32am

U-No-Poo

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Posted: 18 April 2009 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
I never seemed to like Harry/Ginny as a couple too much. Like ShadowKisses mentioned, there was hardly any development to justify the fact that they could sustain their relationship as a couple.
 
Someone said that Ginny knows how it feels to be possesed by Voldermort, Agreed, but the fact remains that she has almost always never been a part of Harry's struggle against Voldermort ( Excluding OOTP, where the entire DA was present ), They have hardly "discussed" these matters either. She knows how it feels, but does she know Harry ?
 
I think it needs much more than a similar experience for a relationship to last. There is nothing concrete in their bond.

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Posted: 18 April 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Neetz-

I never seemed to like Harry/Ginny as a couple too much. Like ShadowKisses mentioned, there was hardly any development to justify the fact that they could sustain their relationship as a couple.
 
Someone said that Ginny knows how it feels to be possesed by Voldermort, Agreed, but the fact remains that she has almost always never been a part of Harry's struggle against Voldermort ( Excluding OOTP, where the entire DA was present ), They have hardly "discussed" these matters either. She knows how it feels, but does she know Harry ?
 
I think it needs much more than a similar experience for a relationship to last. There is nothing concrete in their bond.
 
Yes, but see, we are given a 19 year jump after the Final battle in DH. If Ginny and Harry got married a few years later, obviously that means that they did get time to talk after the Final Battle. Harry and Ginny only went out from the middle of Harry's 6th Year, and Harry was off hunting down Horcruxes for the entire next year. They hardly had time to sit down and talk about their relationship. They were only in the beginning stages, and after Voldemort was killed and the Death Eaters rounded up, they had all the time they needed to talk things over and get to know each other better than before.
Harry's story wasn't supposed to center on romance; JKR said that he already had a lot on his plate, so she gave the romance spotlight to Ron and Hermione. Harry's teenage years were devoted to learning things about Voldemort, stopping Voldemort from gaining power, and then finally killing Voldemort. Voldemort was always the center of Harry's universe (though unwillingly of course), and adding as much romance as Ron and Hermione had would made it too complicated for him. That's why he had a minimal amount of romance, but more of it was action and adventure. That's what made the HP Epic so interesting. Romance wasn't the central point in it, but it was definitely there. Since Harry got the "hero" spotlight, Ron and Hermione got the romance spotlight.
 
Anyway, half of JKR's fans were bound to get disappointed by DH. It would have been impossible for JKR to make all of us perfectly happy with the series, because we're all divided into either Ginny/Harry fans, Harry/Hermione fans, or Harry/Luna fans. Either way, no matter who she made Harry end up with, a big chunk of us would have been disappointed. And JKR said she was planning Ginny/Harry before she even started the series, and she stuck to it till the end.
 
I agree that Harry and Ginny's relationship/romance isn't as intense as Ron and Hermione's, but there are definitely lots of clues in the books to tell us before HBP that Harry and Ginny would end up together. 

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Posted: 18 April 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
Lalitha - In that case, Harry's love track should not have been included at all. Not all heroes need a heroine to complete the story. Whatever has been written should be justified in order to make it believable. A few crushes here and there would have been OK, Like Cho, but claiming that "Ginny was Harry's soulmate" - There should be enough development to prove it.
 
The fact that Harry & Ginny talked during that break b/w the epilogue and the final battle, still remains an assumption, and something cannot be proved concrete on the basis of a mere assumption, no matter how likely that may sound. As far as their marriage is concerned, I would say that JKR concluded the story with their marriage on the basis of the short romantic relationship that they shared in HBP.
 
 
 
 


Edited by -Neetz- - 18 April 2009 at 1:13pm

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