Ginny and harry as a couple??!!! - Page 5

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ShadowKisses thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: shellytt

@ Shadowkisses, I'm reading the passages you've pulled reagarding Ginny, and it may just be me, but I get the sense that Ginny's character (and actions) are a bit reminiscent of Fred and George. Her antics and comments though "sounding mean" can also be looked at in the air of humour, that we often read about when the twins are mentioned. She seems to be very similar to the twins, also in her interation with Ron, who often made snide, seemingly mean comments to Ron, but we accepted accempted those in the context of sibling rivlary and teasing so why can't be think of Ginny's comments in the same light.

 
From what I can tell, all of remarks I've cited regarding Ginny are certainly meant to be funny (as shown by the numerous times people laugh at her degrading Fleur as if it's the funniest thing ever🤔) but in my opinion, they really aren't. I'm no authority on humour but sincerely, her comments don't appear all that funny. An example would be like that of Fleur. Some of her comments are snobby and they are intended to be. Most of Ginny's comments post-GoF are meant to be funny but they come across as condescending to me. Even at the end of HBP, it's Molly who Fleur tells off, Molly who offers a peace offering. Ginny isn't even forced to make a peace offering. She does not suffer the consequences of her actions (a contrast to Fred/George who are usually told off for the pranks that go too far etc). Ginny is portrayed to be "smart and funny" for actions that another character has to apologize for.Thing is Ginny's behaviour wouldn't come out so terrible if someone called her out on it or if people stopped praising her infantile behaviour, but no one (not even Hermione) does; hence, her Mary Sue-like traits. 
 

Originally posted by: shellytt

Also, her running into Zacharias seemed to be a Fred and George type move (IMO).

 

I would agree that it might have been a Fred/George type of move but Fred and George are genuinely funny - they are jokers after all. But for Ginny, who is portrayed to be so serious and tough after GoF, to crash into someone else on a whim doesn't quite come across in the same manner as it would have had Fred and George pulled a prank. Also, Fred and George almost ALWAYS face the consequences of their actions; Ginny doesn't. She tries to be the third twin but she comes off as obnoxious and rude because she is praised for her child-like behavior and does not have to face the consequence that regular characters do. Her sense of humour isn't all that funny; it's juvenile as shown by her use of puerile words such as "cow", "phlegm", "idiot" numerous times.
 

Originally posted by: shellytt

Regarding her falling asleep during an intense Quidditch discussion in GoF, I think that had more to do do with tiredness than with actual boredom. Remember it was an exciting and exhausting day all round for her (getting up before the sun was up, walking a distance to take the portkey, getting settled at the grounds, the entire match and then the post match excitement would have diffentinety taken a toll on the 13 year old girl. So just because she fell asleep doesn't prove that she's not  interested in Quidditch, as much as Hermoine. I can understand however, how are comments can be construed as "mean", however, I won't go so far to say, that she thought that the Sceptesempra (spelled incorrectly I know) was good. She never said that. Hermoine suggested it, however Ginny didn't say that it was good. I know the comment can be made that she didn't disagree with Hermoine either, but I don't get the sense that she believed that the spell was good, but at that point in time she didn't feel it was necessary to judge and reproach Harry for his actions.

 
I disagree. Before OOTP, there's little evidence that Ginny is at all involved in Quidditch. I would accept that Ginny fell asleep because she was tired if not for her lack of reaction during the actual Quidditch match. In OOTP we are told that:
George: "Actually, I dunno how she's [Ginny] got so good [in Quidditch], seeing how we never let her play with us..."

"She's been breaking into your broom shed in the garden since the age of six and taking each of your brooms out in turn when you weren't looking," said Hermione from behind her tottering pile of Ancient Rune books. (US. Edition 574)
This is a direct contradiction to how Ginny is in GoF:
"Mum,. no one at the bank gives a damn how I dress as long as I bring home plenty of treasure," said Bill patiently.
 "And your hair's getting silly, dear," said Mrs. Weasley, fingering her wand
lovingly." I wish you'd let me give it a trim..."
"I like it," said Ginny, who was sitting beside Bill. "You're so old-fashioned, Mum.
Anyway, it's nowhere near as long as Professor Dumbledore's..."

Next to Mrs. Weasley, Fred, George, and Charlie were all talking spiritedly about the World Cup.
"It's got to be Ireland," said Charlie thickly, through a mouthful of potato. "They
flattened Peru in the semifinals."
"Bulgaria has got Viktor Krum, though," said Fred.
"Krum's one decent player, Ireland has got seven," said Charlie shortly. "I wish
England had got through. That was embarrassing, that was." (US.Ed. 64)
While there is a very intense discussion regarding Quidditch that is happening right next to her, Ginny is talking to Molly. The conversation goes on for longer than what I pointed out and at no point does Ginny, who is SO good at Quidditch - who loves Quidditch so much that she's been sneaking into her brother's closet at age six when normal children wouldn't be able to tell a decent lie -  pipe up with her opinion. That she would rather discuss Bill's hair is telling of the fact that she isn't all that into Quidditch. The stronger examples of Ginny's lack of interest in Quidditch occur later in the book during the Quidditich World Cup game. She does not shout. She does not scream. She does not cheer for any of the teams. Rather abnormal behaviour for a Quidditch lover, don't you think? The only thing she does display is horror at Aidan Lynch falling into the ground (108). Ironically enough, it is Hermione who is cheering wildly. The same Hermione who post-GoF!Ginny deems should not talk about Qudditch as she will only end up embarrassing herself. Coming back to the example I gave before, OOTP's passionate Ginny wouldn't fall asleep if there was a very interesting Quidditch discussion going on right beside her. This girl who shows so little passion for Quidditch during one of the international quidditch games is meant to be the Quidditch Queen who is discovered in OOTP? Yeah right and live pigs can fly.
That was a direct quote ;) I wasn't exaggerating:
Passage from HBP - Chapter 24 "Sectumsempra" pg. 530 U.S. Edition:
"Give it a rest, Hermione!" said Ginny, and Harry was so amazed, so grateful, he looked up. "By the sound of it, Malfoy was trying to use an Unforgivable Curse, you should be glad Harry had something good up his sleeve!"
"Well, of course I'm glad Harry wasn't cursed!" said Hermione, clearly stung. "But you can't call that Sectumsempra spell good, Ginny, look where it's landed him! And I'd have thought, seeing what this has done to your chances in the match " "Oh, don't start acting as though you understand Quidditch," snapped Ginny, "you'll only embarrass yourself."
If that isn't insulting someone, I don't know what is. And yet the same person who calls Ron a 'hypocrite', still manages to be indignant with Fleur (and later mocks her) for taking down to her even though throughout the latter half of the book, she talks insults people who are elder to her.

I would have accepted the argument that she was growing tired of Hermione reprimanding Harry had she not shown righteous anger before at Ron for Demelza's fat lip (She calls him a prat). True that the injured party in this case was someone none of them were fond of, however, Demelza's lip was fixed in minutes while Draco was taken to the Hospital Wing after Harry's attack. Ron is responsible for what he does but Harry, who almost killed a schoolmate, doesn't deserve to be reprimanded by Hermione? Consider that for a minute. Harry nearly killed a student because of a foolish mistake and he doesn't deserve to be reprimanded for it? Hermione was starting to gear up for a lecture that Harry truly deserved but Ginny cuts her off, insulting her in the process.

Originally posted by: shellytt

On a side note, Ginny's outburst "hurt" Hermoine, which is sort of a subtle indication of their friendship. Also another note, I just wasnt to clarify that though Hermoine and Ginny were good friends, I never menat to allude that thier level of friendship matched that of Harry and Ron. I was merely stating, that of girl companions Ginny was the closest thing to a best friend she had. Harry and Ron were her true best friends, no disputing that.

 
Oh okay. I was just a bit confused about that ;) Thank you for clearing it.
shellytt thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#42

Here are some quites in defense of Harry\Ginny AND Ginny

HBP CHAPTER:THE WHITE TOMB

Ginny: "I never really gave up on you" she said. "Not really. I always hoped.... Hermoine told me to get on with my life, maybe go out with some other people, relax a bit around you because I never used to be able to talk if you were in the room, remember? And she though you might take a bit more notice if I was  a bit more - myself."

Smart Girl, that Hermoine, said Harry trying to smile. I just wish I'd asked you sooner. We could've had ages.. months... years maybe..."
 
"But you've been too busy saving the wizarding world. said Ginny, half laughing. Well .. I can't say I'm surprised, I knew this would happen in the end. I knew you wouldn't be happy unless you were hunting Voldermort. Maybe that's why I like you so much."
 
 
Another instance that showed trust and love was when Ginny came to him whilst he was sitting at Dumbledore's body. Noone could convince Harry to move, but a simple  " Come on Harry" and a touch from Ginny, gave Harry the strenght to leave his mentor's side without a thought, that this was the right thing to do, and the knowledge that that touch was linked with support.
 
Another instance of kindness shown by Ginny (and if I'm not mistaken its in OOTP) is her defense of Luna. I have to go search for the actual scene but I know she had defended Luna and her peculiar ways. The situation eludes me at the moment, but it did show Ginny's kind side.
 
 
sareeta thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: -Neetz-

I never seemed to like Harry/Ginny as a couple too much. Like ShadowKisses mentioned, there was hardly any development to justify the fact that they could sustain their relationship as a couple.

 
Someone said that Ginny knows how it feels to be possesed by Voldermort, Agreed, but the fact remains that she has almost always never been a part of Harry's struggle against Voldermort ( Excluding OOTP, where the entire DA was present ), They have hardly "discussed" these matters either. She knows how it feels, but does she know Harry ?
 
I think it needs much more than a similar experience for a relationship to last. There is nothing concrete in their bond.



Sorry to gate crash into the discussion quite late, but I've been catching up on all the replies to the most and the one thing that struck me, right from the word go and that has been so kindly mentioned out by Neetz and ShadowKisses is that why is the Ginny being possessed by Voldy being made out as a foundation for the understanding between harry and Ginny? I dont think it ever was, let alone being discussed, I don't think it would have mattered even if Ginny was not possessed by Voldy.

As I see it, Ginny just grew up and while she did, she understood, that Harry the super famous boy, the boy who lived, would be happy, only when he had finally hunted voldy down, his arch nemesis. She does say it to him - "May be thats why I liked you so much!" Its just her growing up and her feelings what started as seemingly a crush were revealed to be lot deeper! That , that Ginny was once possessed by Voldemort was just an incident , but it did nothing to Ginny- Harry relation of find soulmates in each other!

Just my two cents!

And oh, I do have a lot more to say , on Ginny's sense of humor, but at the moment have to dash, and will get back and add more!

Shelly / Lalitha - Loved reading your comments and agree on mos tof the aspects, except dare I say the one I've written about above!

ShadowKisses thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#44

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

The only passage (out of the ones you listed) which I found Ginny being "mean" was the first one. Honestly, everything else wasn't really mean, and as for "Phlegm", Hermione also called Fleur that. So unless you want to say Hermione also had a mean streak, I don't think that counts for much. [/quote]

I haven't got much far in the "An Excess of Phlegm" chapter but as far as I have got, Hermione does not call Fleur "phlegm" (if you could cite the passage where she does, I'll retract this statement) Ginny does. Along with "cow". She doesn't apologize for her actions later even though Molly who has treated Fleur just as badly as Ginny does. She mocks her future-sister-in-law which not only reflects a degree of immaturity but also shows that Ginny is a Mary Sue.  

shellytt thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#45
@Lalitha,  that article that you posted was brilliant!. Thanks for it!
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Posted: 15 years ago
#46
Wow ShadowKisses you are brilliant at writing.
I rarely visit this forum but reading your posts have been a revelation.
wonderfully dispassionate and factual - well done!

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Posted: 15 years ago
#47
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Posted: 15 years ago
#48

Originally posted by: shellytt

@Lalitha,  that article that you posted was brilliant!. Thanks for it!


You're welcome! Glad you like it! I enjoyed it too!😃
ShadowKisses thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#49

Originally posted by: shellytt

Here are some quites in defense of Harry\Ginny AND Ginny

HBP CHAPTER:THE WHITE TOMB

Ginny: "I never really gave up on you" she said. "Not really. I always hoped.... Hermoine told me to get on with my life, maybe go out with some other people, relax a bit around you because I never used to be able to talk if you were in the room, remember? And she though you might take a bit more notice if I was  a bit more - myself."

Smart Girl, that Hermoine, said Harry trying to smile. I just wish I'd asked you sooner. We could've had ages.. months... years maybe..."

 

"But you've been too busy saving the wizarding world. said Ginny, half laughing. Well .. I can't say I'm surprised, I knew this would happen in the end. I knew you wouldn't be happy unless you were hunting Voldermort. Maybe that's why I like you so much."

 

Another instance that showed trust and love was when Ginny came to him whilst he was sitting at Dumbledore's body. 1.Noone could convince Harry to move, but a simple  " Come on Harry" and a touch from Ginny, gave Harry the strenght to leave his mentor's side without a thought, that this was the right thing to do, and the knowledge that that touch was linked with support.

 

Another instance of kindness shown by Ginny (and if I'm not mistaken its in OOTP) is her defense of Luna. I have to go search for the actual scene but I know she had defended Luna and her peculiar ways. The situation eludes me at the moment, but it did show Ginny's kind side.

 

 

 

1. Evidenced or conjecture?

 

Fact remains that even if they do have lovey-dovey moments, their relationship has no prior development from which the attraction stems. You've illustrated that they like each other, not quite answered why the attraction exists. Rowling is capable of writing fluffy scenes, no doubt; however, her development of the Harry/Ginny relationship leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Funny you should pick that as an example of Ginny being remotely nice. That was actually one of the moments when I really disliked her. In the context of her previous boyfriends, is her statement an admission that Michael and Dean were there to make Harry notice her? If so, how very nice. [/end sarcasm] If the only reason Ginny went out with them in the first place was to make Harry notice her, how much did she even like Dean and Michael if she wasn't the least bit bothered by dumping them over the most trivial of things? She breaks her relationship off with Michael because he, in Ginny's opinion, "got sulky" ostensibly because of Gryffindor beating Ravenclaw. Cho, who unlike Ginny, cared about her boyfriend and finds it harder to move on from the loss of Cedric, is insolently dismissed as a "human hosepipe" while Michael who roots for his own team over his girlfriend's is illustrated to be a bad sport by someone whose own sportsmanship is extremely poor. Ginny dumped Dean for "shoving" her when in actuality; it was Harry who did the shoving albeit accidentally and she isn't the least bit perturbed by a broken relationship of at least 10 months of dating (Book time: Their relationship begins somtime during OOTP 30-37 and ends in HBP 22 which translates into roughly a year according to the HP-Lexicon). It is Dean who is unhappy and nurses a broken glass in his hand when she, inconsiderate of his feelings, kisses Harry back. Sure, it can be considered quite sweet if you ignore those little tidbits but if you consider what she says in relation to her previous relationships, then it really isn't all that kind-hearted.

 

Also, Harry runs away from the fan-girls so, why is Ginny an exception because in passage you've cited, she certainly appears to be one.  In this very quote, she states that she knew this would be the end result, that she never "really gave up on [him]", doesn't that imply that her feelings for Harry are the same as what they were a few years ago? That does quite efficiently demonstrate that her view of him hasn't altered. And if so, why is she better than thousands of HP fan-girls in Potterverse who would bite off their own arms to have a chance at dating Harry?

 

If I remember properly, wasn't it also her along with Ron who referred to Luna as "Looney" in the beginning of OOTP?  Despite that, I agree that it was nice of Ginny to do that even if Luna doesn't much care what others think of her. That's the Ginny I wish we saw more of. The kind yet talkative one, not the mean-spirited one who desperately wishes to be the third twin and fails at it, quite spectacularly.

-Sakina- thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#50
she is too good and i love them