Joined: 12 November 2006
Joined: 11 February 2005
Joined: 01 January 2006
Joined: 03 December 2006
Joined: 01 January 2006
Environment and upbringing plays a huge role in securing / building confidence in one's orientation. Have you heard that pig is not a pig unless the piggy environment teaches them to be/behave like pigs or kharbuje ko dekh kharbujey wali quote.
How do we environmentally explain the occurrence of gay people in completely normal families? How do we explain homosexual people in highly heteronormative cultures?
The possibility comes from combinations of various surroundings, one is exposed to and how and when certain positive / negative sexual experience, influences one to change preferences as far as sexual lifestyle is concerned
Similar to how we explain other abnormalities existing in normative cultures.
I have read and seen tons of articles on gayism is something that people are born with it, thats BS no proof orelse it wouldn't have taken time pronouncing "Congratts you have a gay boy" in nursing homes. If at all proved then let run tests on all, let see how many people in the WORLD are actually living a fake life?
There are many things that are not explained by science. Even evolution the most widely accepted theory is not completely empirically sound and has its own holes. Science did not know the role of genes, chromosomes etc. Science did not know the cause of hundreds of diseases. Even cures had to undergo series of tests, thesis, trial and error before reaching conclusion. Just because science cannot explain it does not mean it cannot be naturally valid.
And whatever happened to simply accepting people for who they are. Based on scientific evidence faith is the most ridonkulous thing people have.
With that logic, whatever lil bit science can explain doesn't also mean that it can be naturally valid, right? That takes away that bare minimum from what science had to offer in justification of gayism. Too bad now, I will have to edit, environment plays huge role to, environment plays the only role in gayism.
And there is nothing abnormal about having faith in God, yes without evidence. Sexual orientation/Science <> Faith/Science, anyways.
If we really are all for it and support gayism then neither necrophilic or beastiality orientation studies should be left out...N and B people should be seen as someone not commiting social crime or sick, instead all should be happy for those corpses and animals... they have a human who wants and cares for them eternally.
Animals and dead people can't consent to that act. If they could, you had a point. Key here is consentual sex between two adults. Whether they happen to be of same gender or different is no one's business and no one has the right to give them a guilt trip over their prefrence.
How can anyone prove non consentual sex by animal? Unless obvious abuse... since you are hard on it...here some insights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia . For sake of it you can hold the flag on consents, if two mentally sick (don't mean homos..jsut eg.) gettogether in an unnatural act if that fine, should I even say anything else.
Did you see the nasty Indian carvings on that page. Sorry just had to point that out cause Indians can act so holier than thoust.
Consensual adult requires the ability to consent. How do we prove non consent by animals - the exact same way you prove consent. It cannot be done. The basic premise for establishing consent as a requirement is that it ought to be proven or disproven in a way. If it cannot be done, there is no consent established. Hence the act is non consensual.
I would not say mentally sick, but mentally incapable. Why does society have an issue with teenage and pre-teen sex? Why is there controversy over rights of certain psychiatric patients to engage in relationships? Consent also requires mental capacity, maturity and conscious thought to process the consent. Similarly you could be charged with rape for having sex with a person who was drunk or under influence of drugs - because even if they say yes - their state of mind is legally defined as incapable of giving consent.
The necrophilia/bestiality/pedophilia argument against homosexuality does not work - because it does not consider the full meaning and spirit of the terms 'adult' and 'consent'.
2. If conclusions are drawn on animal behaviors as being consensual or non consensual and it act of sex draws towards consensual behavior, then bestiality is normal and can be endorsed?
Joined: 01 January 2006
I agree with WA what she has written.
We should really see what we are addressing here before going with thumb rule, education is good and everyone should know, helps develop, know whats going on around blah blah blah.
Oh ok, wonder from where teaching about sexuality crossed the line to teach homosexuality, isn't learning about sexuality enough then adding different favors of sexuality (converts and what not) in education? Specially when as you said one is secured and confident about one's orientation. Education hai yaa maajaak.
I am not saying teach kids how homosexuals copulate. My point is teaching respect towards homos as part of respecting diversity and clearing up the myths. Don't see what are the problems there except for some phobia prevalent in a section of masses against gayism.
Why leave how homosexual copulate (yikes is it even called copulate or have s*x oops SEX? no more desi escapism)? Isn't that the basis or driving factor of homosexual orientation? Problem is - Why to needlessly inculcate something in Georges/Georgias mind that he might feel the need to rediscover himself, SEXUALLY (abnormal), when this rediscovery has a possibility of adding one more to the count. Individuals respect is something everyone should be aware and know, right from childhood, infact I don't understand why some (other then gays) need to force this gay respect all of a sudden. Who is not respecting them? Go do whatever they want, against whatever, who cares as long as they don't encouraged to a point of canvassing gayism - "We are Gays, You might be Gay, Come with US, Try it Once and Hey see, you too are Gay"
Dart in the air is what you are throwing, can pig look like cow everyone knows that... i meant the behaviour pattern influcenced by environment, essence of dart is imp . It's nothing to do with insecurity, check how many turn with being homos after leading a normal lifestyle, its nothing to do with security or insecurity. Natural orientation it might not be termed as evil as not natural by all means, now whatever u call it.
Mind elaborating your piggy example then. What point were you trying to make there? You said pig is not a pig unless piggy env teaches them. I say you remove a pig from his piggy env but it will still remain a pig.
No point, unless you too literally elaborate the mind and see what that means outside the literals.
1.Gayism is not "environmental" for most gays. The ones who are gays by choice and not because that is their natural orientation, well - it again is their personal choice. 2.I would not comment on that either or ridicule them on it. 3. But for those who actually do feel naturally inclined towards opposite sex, it's brutal to call them names and ridicule them for something they have no control over.
1.Then what is? Chalo atleast you agree, there are gays without any natural orientation involved.
2.Why not? It is very important here, am spending no time for nothing lol, will you support or stay on the fence or go against? (Respect for individual choice, is assumed).
3.U meant bisexuals? Welll' I am assuming that is a typo...u meant same sex' no one is holding their hand and sending them to caravass, only thing is we cann't encourage such change of preferances, when its all seems like mind game or self controll, once we do, there is long line of people with weird agendas waiting for approvals from society/law.
That is right and favors my arguement more then yours, there is nothing like being naturally homo, one of the major factor is influences and environment / life experiences, all ends in sexual preferences that can vary vastly, am sure you know now what is normal and what is NOT as far as sexual preferences goes ?
My point was and is --- If we can't assess whether one is born homo then we can't assess either that they are born hetero either. Being homo does not make them look different in any ways. They are still as human as any other hetero. In very few cases people turn to being homos because of some traumatic childhood experiences --- just like very few turn psycho or schiznophrenic. You can't bas a general perception on homosexuality based on such outliers.
My point was for people who believe being gay is natural and proven by science. OK everything adds up, IMO. Humans??who said humans cann't be off beat or have abnormal sexual preferances..oh come on now, u r making me feel bad for no reason.
There is no scientic theory clash in this case, whatever scientist came up with was permutations / combinations, based on who turned gay and did not, there is NO proof. Again, Whole sets of experiments had no scientific proof. Am sure that experiements also must be done keeping some political or personal interests in mind.
I think so far, it's the second hand treatment meted out to this community that is driven by political and politicians' personal interests. Take the prejudiced vote bank away and you'll see a different picture. Just because homos are in minority, the majority i trampling them down.
I understand that reaction coming from someone who just gave it a go to start with, without any substance, just for the heck of it and now looking for some ground to hold onto ...so no worries
Whatever How does this prove YOUR point though
I will leave this alone. U are free to ignore if makes no sense. Thanks for previous responses tho.
Edit - fixed font, quotes remain as it is, Gauri - red, Ansh - blue
Joined: 12 November 2006
Joined: 01 January 2006
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