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Mindbender

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Mindbender

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 7:16pm | IP Logged
damn it man !

everybody seems to be talking about casteism and racism in india .
I am not talking about blaming anyone or something like that,
i knew the topic would become very vast then,

hence i asked some specific questions based on an article and poll

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chal_phek_mat

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 7:57pm | IP Logged
I have some more questions too regarding that poll , but they 'll be more apt if i could know more about the people who have given their responses in the poll. If someone can help me out here, i'd be grateful
 
Question
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king


Does this indicate that majority of the whites are not aware of the problem or its seriousness?
Answer
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Racism exists but far less than casteism in India.
Question
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king

Or it tells that blacks seem to be considering it still more of a problem than what it really is ? If you think it is something in between, then towards whose side is it tilted ?

Answer
 
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat


But people(blacks, asians, Hispanics) have made it a business to exploit the wounds of their forefathers to justify their failures of today and blame the white man for that.
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king

damn it man !

everybody seems to be talking about casteism and racism in india .
I am not talking about blaming anyone or something like that,
i knew the topic would become very vast then,

hence i asked some specific questions based on an article and poll
 
HappyWink

Meena1

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:01pm | IP Logged
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Mindbender

IF-Sizzlerz

Mindbender

Joined: 21 October 2008

Posts: 15873

Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

I have some more questions too regarding that poll , but they 'll be more apt if i could know more about the people who have given their responses in the poll. If someone can help me out here, i'd be grateful
 
Question
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king


Does this indicate that majority of the whites are not aware of the problem or its seriousness?
Answer
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

Racism exists but far less than casteism in India.


How are you so sure ?


Question
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king

Or it tells that blacks seem to be considering it still more of a problem than what it really is ? If you think it is something in between, then towards whose side is it tilted ?

Answer
 
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat


But people(blacks, asians, Hispanics) have made it a business to exploit the wounds of their forefathers to justify their failures of today and blame the white man for that.
 


whatever........but thats a different issue,
we'll come to that later Smile


So  , you feel that blacks are exaggerating the problem ?
 
 
 
Originally posted by ashoka_was_king

damn it man !

everybody seems to be talking about casteism and racism in india .
I am not talking about blaming anyone or something like that,
i knew the topic would become very vast then,

hence i asked some specific questions based on an article and poll
 
HappyWink


Not quite Tongue


Edited by ashoka_was_king - 18 February 2009 at 8:18pm

Mindbender

IF-Sizzlerz

Mindbender

Joined: 21 October 2008

Posts: 15873

Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Meena1

Originally posted by ashoka_was_king

Do you think that people like Hannah Pool make a lot out of statements like how articulate Obama is when it could simply have meant an appreciation only ? Or are they thinking it the right way (specially considering
the fact that she is so experienced )? Or are they right in thinking this way (even if its not correct) because they are not treated fairly ?
..Statements made on how articulate Obama may kinda seem very sarcastic.. but i have to read the original article to see what the tone is of the writer... Looking at it from a normal perspective.. i don't think it was made in a derogatory way.. i am sure they would say the samething about a white president (except W. Bush cuz in his case it'll simply be an oximoron)

I also think the same way

Next , i'll put the question in the last line only -

"But he is still an American, and what kind of a friend has America been to us?"

So will Obama after all really bring the change to East Africa ?specially when the people present there
themselves have apprehensions ! 
..I am not aware of the past relationships of Kenya-America or Africa and America in general.  so not sure if i can answer that.. However, Obama is still an American and i doubt it that his foriegn policy would be that different from that of previous administrations..

Ok

Btw -While reading the article, you all also might have some queries , or some points you'd like to disagree on, or some points which you might have thought were mighty interesting or unique .So if that's the case,do put up those points for discussionSmile  ..I didnt like that statement made by Sun's Times.. Ermm.. thats definitely not an articulate writer.

*******************************************************************************************************************

Talking more about racism that exists today , here is a poll conducted by washingtonpost -

http:////www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/01/19/ST2009011900012.html

The way the overall results are tilted towards what the whites feel, does indicate that an overwhelming number of whites have been considered in comparison to blacks, hence i'll consider the results given separately for blacks and whites.

First of all , its quite clear that the problem of racism has decreased , so kudos to that Clap

Next , a disturbing factor for me is the difference in percentage points between blacks and whites over these racial issues.

Does this indicate that majority of the whites are not aware of the problem or its seriousness?Or it tells that blacks seem to be considering it still more of a problem than what it really is ? If you think it is something in between, then towards whose side is it tilted ?  ..I think racism definitely still exists today.. streotypes are something that can never be changed.. i have olny experienced this in NY soo cant really talk about the entire country.. But its fun to watch the reaction of an Old White Granny when a Black man gets into an empty subway cart.. she turns Snow-white..LOLLOL..

LOLLOLA different way to look at it !

In my opinion , having a black man as president doesnt really mean that whites have accepted that them as equals.. the fact that he got elected was more due to the economic conditions of the country and cuz americans were just fed with watching that Chimp on TV.. I could bet you that if the economic conditions were not bad as they are today, a black man could have never been elected as president.

Why not John McCain ?

I have some more questions too regarding that poll , but they 'll be more apt if i could know more about the people who have given their responses in the poll. If someone can help me out here, i'd be gratefulSmile


return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
Electing Obama to President is a milestone for the United States of America. Just a year ago even I did not honestly believe there can be a colored President of the United States. When you consider the entire history of the United States of America, it is something that just amazes you.

However, I think Americans tend to err when assuming that the entire world will share this sentiment. Other countries in the world have a different history and historical perspective, not everyone will view it as such. That being said the significance has not been lost on the world. I have even seen Frenchmen and Russians go gaga over Obama.

Another fact remains that Obama is an 'American' president. He is expected to serve the American people. While he may be sympathetic to issues in Africa or what colored people across the world face - he is not their leader. I think Hannah Pool tries to clarify to black people that he is no sort of messiah for them - they still have to work at it. It is nothing derogatory towards Obama. Just a reality check. As an American citizen I expect Obama to have his priorities set on America and think of the world later.

I don't think she is far fetched when she says people think he is articulate for a black man. Subconsciously that plays a part. When I look at it in retrospect, I realize I myself think he stands out for being a black man.

You walk through the mall and watch a bunch of teens with their baggy pants sagging to show their boxer briefs, their oversized FUBU shirts, braided dreadlocks and blinding bling, being loud obnoxious drawing undue attention to themselves, speaking a version of English language that makes even Geordie sound comprehensible and pleasing to the ear - then come home and turn on the TV to watch Obama speak you wonder is he really black or did he just get a strange tan or somthing.

What I do not get is her obsession with Obama failing, and equating it with a black man failing. Yes a lot of people do think Obama will fail. Many think his economic policies are not sound or too left wing. Except for a the ignorant few not one Obama critic has viewed him as a black man failing - they view him as a socialist failing in a free market world. Gauri and Raj in evaluating Obama topic brought up a lot of points against him - but none because he is a black man - but because he is a liberal. I would not go to say that a white christian male would face exact criticism - but it would not be too disparage. I think some black people are  just paranoid that the white world is out to blame them.

As far as racism goes it exists and is very prevalent. It is human tendency to be hostile, unsure or cautious to something that is different.

As majority members white people are unable to see the unearned privelege they receive for being in the majority class. They do not understand the experience of facing the underpriveleges of minority status. Similarly black people are focused on the discrimination that they do not see the efforts some white people put into foster tolerace. From their minority status they do not understand what the majority accepts.

There is intended racism and there is unintended racism. Some people behave in a different manner to colored people because they look down on them, but many behave differently because they live sheltered lives and do not know how to behave. This is especially true of many hick towns in the United States.

Then there is expressed racism and supressed racism. Typically down south people are pretty expressive and vocal of their racist views. But up North and amidst the coasties we have whom I call - pseudo liberal. They participate in charities, pretend to be liberal, have many colored friends. But in reality they look down on other races and classes, they give charity to show themselves up and prove that other people cannot do without them, they have colored friends as a novelty show off. Like OMG have you met my black friend, OMG I am like adopting a Chinese baby. I am so liberal and cool.  I'd rather have the KKK shoot me in the head than become a liberal novelty item.

I totally love the movie Crash because it portrays racism and biases in a raw and real sense. We all are victims and victimizers. John Ryan starts out as your typical racist sexually abusive cop, but as the movie progresses you learn that difficulties of his life due to affirmative action and that he is willing to risk his life to save a black woman in the line of duty. We have Farhad an innocent Persian man constantly harassed due to his national origin and religion, yet he has no qualms on shooting his gun at an innocent Latino just because he assumes he is a gangbanger.

We are all racists because none of us are truly capable of rising above our misperceptions. We didnt start the fire, it was always burning, since the worlds been turning

Meena1

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Joined: 27 December 2005

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
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Mindbender

IF-Sizzlerz

Mindbender

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Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Electing Obama to President is a milestone for the United States of America. Just a year ago even I did not honestly believe there can be a colored President of the United States. When you consider the entire history of the United States of America, it is something that just amazes you.

So you do feel that the amount of emphasis that was laid on "The black becoming president" was justified ?

However, I think Americans tend to err when assuming that the entire world will share this sentiment. Other countries in the world have a different history and historical perspective, not everyone will view it as such. That being said the significance has not been lost on the world. I have even seen Frenchmen and Russians go gaga over Obama.

And Indians too !


Another fact remains that Obama is an 'American' president. He is expected to serve the American people. While he may be sympathetic to issues in Africa or what colored people across the world face - he is not their leader. I think Hannah Pool tries to clarify to black people that he is no sort of messiah for them - they still have to work at it. It is nothing derogatory towards Obama. Just a reality check. As an American citizen I expect Obama to have his priorities set on America and think of the world later.

He has been saying a lot about his foreign policies ,so if he is sympathetic towards issues in Africa,
it should translate into something significant (even if his priorities are set first on america), else whats the use of being sympathetic ?

I don't think she is far fetched when she says people think he is articulate for a black man. Subconsciously that plays a part. When I look at it in retrospect, I realize I myself think he stands out for being a black man.

Alright , but on a lighter note , does it mean Hannah Pool doesn't consider Obama articulate enough for a white man ??LOL
I mean if he is indeed articulate , then why would one worry that he might be talked about keeping black in mind ?

You walk through the mall and watch a bunch of teens with their baggy pants sagging to show their boxer briefs, their oversized FUBU shirts, braided dreadlocks and blinding bling, being loud obnoxious drawing undue attention to themselves, speaking a version of English language that makes even Geordie sound comprehensible and pleasing to the ear - then come home and turn on the TV to watch Obama speak you wonder is he really black or did he just get a strange tan or somthing.

What I do not get is her obsession with Obama failing, and equating it with a black man failing. Yes a lot of people do think Obama will fail. Many think his economic policies are not sound or too left wing. Except for a the ignorant few not one Obama critic has viewed him as a black man failing - they view him as a socialist failing in a free market world. Gauri and Raj in evaluating Obama topic brought up a lot of points against him - but none because he is a black man - but because he is a liberal. I would not go to say that a white christian male would face exact criticism - but it would not be too disparage. I think some black people are  just paranoid that the white world is out to blame them.

Yup , exactly what  i wanted to know !
I think the point you said about people opposing him because he was a liberal and not black is not justified here . The point being raised is of when he fails and not why he fails ! Anyways you did talk about a socialist failing too , so its alright Big smile
But i guess , even though i also feel that if Obama fails , it shouldn't have much to do with a black man failing, but if it does have to do something with it , we'd know more about the magnitude of racism that prevails. (Racist humour would be the first step when he fails i guess if racism is of that magnitude,but anyways too far fetched . we don't want him to fail , do we ? )Smile


As far as racism goes it exists and is very prevalent. It is human tendency to be hostile, unsure or cautious to something that is different.

The more open minded the society becomes , the less hostile it should become to something that is different right ?
Between being against "gayism" is a kind of racism ?LOL

As majority members white people are unable to see the unearned privelege they receive for being in the majority class. They do not understand the experience of facing the underpriveleges of minority status. Similarly black people are focused on the discrimination that they do not see the efforts some white people put into foster tolerace. From their minority status they do not understand what the majority accepts.

But what do you think is more ? The number of whites not understanding or the number of blacks exaggerating their problems ?

There is intended racism and there is unintended racism. Some people behave in a different manner to colored people because they look down on them, but many behave differently because they live sheltered lives and do not know how to behave. This is especially true of many hick towns in the United States.

I didn't know that , ...thanks Smile

Then there is expressed racism and supressed racism. Typically down south people are pretty expressive and vocal of their racist views. But up North and amidst the coasties we have whom I call - pseudo liberal. They participate in charities, pretend to be liberal, have many colored friends. But in reality they look down on other races and classes, they give charity to show themselves up and prove that other people cannot do without them, they have colored friends as a novelty show off. Like OMG have you met my black friend, OMG I am like adopting a Chinese baby. I am so liberal and cool.  I'd rather have the KKK shoot me in the head than become a liberal novelty item.

Yup ,suppressed racism is worse than expressed racism


I totally love the movie Crash because it portrays racism and biases in a raw and real sense. We all are victims and victimizers. ClapJohn Ryan starts out as your typical racist sexually abusive cop, but as the movie progresses you learn that difficulties of his life due to affirmative action and that he is willing to risk his life to save a black woman in the line of duty. We have Farhad an innocent Persian man constantly harassed due to his national origin and religion, yet he has no qualms on shooting his gun at an innocent Latino just because he assumes he is a gangbanger.

We are all racists because none of us are truly capable of rising above our misperceptions. We didnt start the fire, it was always burning, since the worlds been turning

I hope we do become capable enough Smile



Edited by ashoka_was_king - 18 February 2009 at 8:54pm

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